Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Wide Open Testing

[NoSeeUm]

Lately, I have thought allot about bombing. This is a new concept to many here, but never the less I have the bug.



So today I did some WOT testing. I was basically trying to determine maximum EGT at a few different boost pressures and RPM's. What I don't have is a baseline to compare to. The reason is that I never thought of doing this before I had my cam put in.



Basically, I would select an RPM in 4th gear that I wanted to test at. Stabilizing at speed, then I would simultaneously press the brake and the go pedal at the same time. Then I would press the go pedal all the way to the floor while holding speed constant with the brake.



Here are my results:

Stock SW 24 psi any RPM ---> could not get the EGT to go past 950F

SW7 24 psi any RPM ---> EGT would climb rapidly to 1000 then creep to 1100

SW7 29 psi 2300 RPM ---> EGT would climb rapidly to 1000 then creep to 1100

SW9 29 psi 2300 RPM ---> EGT would climb rapidly to 1000 then creep to 1100



Raising boost pressure really made zero deference, that I could tell. The maximum boost was produced around 2200-2400 RPM. I did not run any tests over this RPM range. I did run some tests at 1600-2000 RPM, but the EGT response did not vary much anyway from the higher RPM tests so thats all I am going to list.



OK so I would also like to get some baseline data. I was wondering if anyone would mind running this test for me. I would like to get a data set from some one running a pure stock SO five speed. No boost elbows and no performance boxes please. Don't tear your truck up, run short tests 1/4 mile or so at time then let the brakes cool. Reply to this thread and post the results.



Additionally, if any of you Smarty and bigger injector / turbo people would run this test that would also be great. Just contain what mods you are running please. Reply to this thread and post the results.



Especially, I would like to see the Dodgezilla / Smarty SW9 Mach 1. 6, 2 and 4 guys chime in and post there results.



Much thanks;

Jim

 

[NoSeeUm]

Since I started this thread the number of responses has well, been simply astounding. But I am carrying on with it in light of the responsive flood.



I did some more testing after I hooked my Stinger (Banks) timing box back up. According to Banks, and depending on which part of the curves you look at, this box adds about 70Hp and 190 ft/lbs. I did the testing with SW8 software loaded.



Here are my results:

SW8+Stinger 29 psi 2300 RPM ---> EGT had a hard time reaching 950



In my mind that is a pretty significant EGT reduction. I really had to fight with it to get 950.



I have heard that advancing the timing does lower EGT, but I just can't quite get the concept of how it does this. This is because the combustion temperature raises with advancing timing. Anyone care to enlighten me, or point to a good source to find out myself?



BTW don't turn this into a Banks Bash Festival (or me ), I chose that box originally because I wanted a reliable moderate power increase. Since then nothing really has changed, because it all still seems like a big mystery to me as to why I really bought it especially in light of the Smarty.



Thanks for any replies;

Jim

 

[johncameron]

I have heard that advancing the timing does lower EGT, but I just can't quite get the concept of how it does this. This is because the combustion temperature raises with advancing timing. Anyone care to enlighten me, or point to a good source to find out myself?





Thanks for any replies;

Jim

BTW, the banks ottomind boxes (wire tap models) don't adjust timing. They only fuel through the pump wire.



John

 

[NoSeeUm]

Thanks John, my connection with the Stinger is to the Can Bus only.



Edit: The Stinger also looks at boost and EGT. I know that the it does EGT defueling, but I am not sure about boost defueling.



Jim

 

[johncameron]

My Big Hoss (wire tap only) does EGT de-fuel at around 1275F and it is extremely smooth. It still pulls well but it feels like you just backed off the throttle a bit. I'm pretty sure banks does not Boost defuel, I have hit over 40lbs with mine without any signes of defueling.

 

[NoSeeUm]

Thanks John, my connection with the Stinger is to the Can Bus only.



Edit: The Stinger also looks at boost and EGT. I know that the it does EGT defueling, but I am not sure about boost defueling.



Jim

Yes OK, I got to thinking more about this. Thanks John, you must sparked some source of intellect deep in my brain.



The run stock and the run with the Stinger are so very close in EGT and performance. The Stinger must be defueling on boost and anything over 22 psi is just running at stock power level anyways.



Jim

 

[nps]

Here are my results:

Stock SW 24 psi any RPM ---> could not get the EGT to go past 950F

SW7 24 psi any RPM ---> EGT would climb rapidly to 1000 then creep to 1100

SW7 29 psi 2300 RPM ---> EGT would climb rapidly to 1000 then creep to 1100

SW9 29 psi 2300 RPM ---> EGT would climb rapidly to 1000 then creep to 1100



Raising boost pressure really made zero deference, that I could tell. The maximum boost was produced around 2200-2400 RPM.

What you are demonstrating is that you have enough air for your current fueling levels. Obviously you are pushing harder on the brake pedal to produce the higher boost readings. The anomaly you would expect to see when the turbo goes off its efficiency map is boost pressure rising along with EGTs. You aren't there yet.

 

[NoSeeUm]

What you are demonstrating is that you have enough air for your current fueling levels. Obviously you are pushing harder on the brake pedal to produce the higher boost readings. The anomaly you would expect to see when the turbo goes off its efficiency map is boost pressure rising along with EGTs. You aren't there yet.

Yes, I pretty much came to that thought also. What I did expect to see, but did not see was that increasing boost had an un-noticable effect on EGT. In my set-up 25 --> 30 psi boost is about all the tweak room I get.



Granted, it is hard to drive with one foot on the throttle the other on the brake, watch the road, watch to the gauges and effectively notice small changes in response. Nor can I measure ground Hp by how hard I press on the brake. All I get is maximum EGT out of the test.



In a commercial world where Hp gain is the major attraction to sell a product. Most Dyno runs I see report maximum Hp and maximum torque. Maximum sustainable Hp and torque is not reported.



I would use the Dyno differently. Spool it up to WOT maintaining a constant target RPM using the Dyno as a load and monitor EGT. Then tweak the air, exhaust, timing and fuel until you maximize Hp. Pulling some number for maximum Hp out of the air and then working the other way seems backwards.



Taken in this light, some of what Banks reports as "engineering" makes sense to me. Seems they to come at it from the maximum sustainable philosophy not the maximum attainable view point when they sell their kits.



Jim