Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Will a stock 01 H/O meltdown?

[Sageair]

I have a bone stock 2001 H/O and tow 11,000 lbs alot at 5,000 ft m. s. l. My question is will the e. g. t's ever get high enough to be a problem? I know I should get gauges but right now three kids in college at the same time REALLY limits my expendable income. I am careful about shifting down when pulling hard to keep boost up and e. g. t's down but I still wonder. Thanks for any input.

 

[CoastyAV8R]

I just pulled my 5th wheel through Colorado this summer with my 01 HO 4x4 and I can attest to the fact that it will go over 1250 when it's floored pullin' a load up a hill. I had to pay attention to mine so I wouldn't go over the 1250 mark. My truck is totally stock so it should be a good reference for ya. Even before our 5th wheel we had a 24' travel trailer that weighed about 5000lbs and the EGT's would go past 1250 with it also. Obviously if you don't lug it you can help keep the EGT's down but even doing this you can go over the magic mark. Also without an EGT gauge you don't really realize how long it takes for the truck's egt's to come down to an acceptable temp, it takes a long time when your haulin' that much weight up a hill. I would tell one of you kids to cook noodles for a couple of weeks so daddy can keep from cookin' his pickup.



Pat

 

[rblomquist]

If you drive it like it's meant to be driven you will not have any problems. Like said above, if you let it lug around while towing the EGTs will get up there. I tow my trailer which depending on what I have loaded up in it (toyhauler) is heavier than what you say yours is, in 115 degree heat up and down a lot of the same terrain as you without issue (driving right though).



Consider these cheap mods:



Yank the snorkel off the airbox (free)



Have a muffler shop get rid of the muffler with a straight pipe. It's not that much louder, mostly a deeper tone and will help your flow. Think I paid $50 tax and all to have it done to mine.

 

[RustyJC]

We tow a 36' 13,500 lb 5th wheel that puts us on the road at 10,380 lbs GVW (10,500 lbs GVWR) and 21,180 lbs GCW (21,500 lbs GCWR). Absolutely stock, our HO would hit 1300 degF pre-turbo EGT when towing up long grades.



Unless you are comfortable with this, I would highly recommend at least a pre-turbo EGT gauge, with boost and fuel pressure close behind.



Rusty

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by rblomquist

If you drive it like it's meant to be driven you will not have any problems.

With all respect, I note that your signature says you have an ETC. The ETH runs higher EGT's than the ETC.



Rusty

 

[mgoncalves]

I recently installed some gauges for a friend of mine that was wanting more power. He was having some overheating problems so I suggested the gauges first to make sure nothing was wrong.



His first trip out with the gauges showed he was hitting 1400 up long grades. His truck is a bone stock 01 ETC with a 5 speed, it has a monster slide in that never comes out of the truck and usually a small trailer.



After seeing that, I would put gauges in any of these modern diesels.





Matt

 

[rblomquist]

Originally posted by RustyJC

With all respect, I note that your signature says you have an ETC. The ETH runs higher EGT's than the ETC.



Rusty

Rusty,



Point taken, I didn't notice the ETH in the signature.



You know I do have to ask myself sometime though that if it was such a worry (and probably 99% of the CTD owners not even aware of the TDR and issues like this) you'd think we'd see a lot of melted down Ram's beside the road. Same thing with liftpumps, not to say that it isn't hard on injector pumps when the LP is out but a ton of folks go years never knowing the diffrence one way or another.



Not to say it isn't a great idea to have a gauge pack (because it is) but if the guy is on a tight budget I wouldn't have him losing any sleep over this stuff, maybe do some freebe or el cheapo mods but driving it sensibly I think is the most effective means of prolonging a vehicle.



Rich

 

[RustyJC]

As I said, if the gentleman is comfortable with sustained 1300 degF pre-turbo EGT's, there's no need for gauges. If not, then I'd get a pre-turbo pyrometer as a minimum. At the end of the day, it's his call.



Of course, if it'll hit 1300 degF pre-turbo with everything just right, what happens when the intercooler get bug-fouled or when there's a minor boost leak? Without a pyrometer, there will be no real indication of the problem.



Rusty

 

[Sageair]

I appreciate your replies so far but now I have a follow up question. To supplement my day job I am hauling hay and cattle evenings and weekends. I am driving a 2000 Peterbilt that has a Cat 3406. It has no pyrometer. Is the Cat a smarter engine than my ETH and does it protect itself somehow from high e. g. t's? Once again thankyou for your replies.

 

[Ray Torresdal]

CAT pyrometer

Back in the day when I owned CAT, they claimed that pyrometers were not necessary, CAT's never ran that hot. I've driven N14's that didn't have pyrometers also. . . . If I were in the business for myself today, I would have all the gauges to help moniter my investment.



Ray

 

[JJW_ND]

Not sure 1250 is so magical!

We all think 1250 is some magical number were meltdown is iminenent.



Has anyone ever heard or read of engine damage in a stock ETH related to a hard pull?



Way to many trucks running very hard with no gauges.



Way to many NOT STOCK trucks running hard with or without gauges.



jjw

ND

 

[rblomquist]

Re: Not sure 1250 is so magical!

Originally posted by JJW-ND

We all think 1250 is some magical number were meltdown is iminenent.



Has anyone ever heard or read of engine damage in a stock ETH related to a hard pull?



Way to many trucks running very hard with no gauges.



Way to many NOT STOCK trucks running hard with or without gauges.



jjw

ND

That's basically what I was saying.



Funny story, I have a good friend that had a 97 PSD dually and was towing his 33' toyhauler stuffed to the gills, over GVW, in this desert heat, a few hundred miles a month (or more). Anyway, he was driving more with the foot to the mat than not so he decided to do some BOMBing. Long story short he ended up with guages along with other stuff and the next time he towed he about scared the bejesus out of himself because of the temps he was reading. According to what Banks had told him these temps were well into the meltdown range and was hurting the motor. For the next 6-9 months before he decided to upgrade to a newer 4x4 version he was absolutely miserable because he had to drive by the pyro even though he'd driven it for years with no pyro.

p. s. We ran into the guy that bought his old dually at the racetrack (big race trailer behind it) and the guy said it still runs like a champ.



Again, I think gauges are great but if you didn't use a little common sense and just went by what gets posted in here than you'd think your truck was going to self-destruct at any moment.

 

[krs]

$120. 00 or so will buy a good pyrometer for that $35,000 dollar truck to help assure that the family and the $20,000 trailer might make it home one more time.

"Tight budget" is a kinda' silly thing to say, don't you think? What is the real reason that makes so many people resistant to a gauge or two?

 

[rblomquist]

Originally posted by KRS

"Tight budget" is a kinda' silly thing to say, don't you think?

It's only silly if you're not on one.

 

[RDWomack]

I drive a totally stock 01 w/ an auto (obviously not H/O). I pull a 8000 lb trailer. I also live in the mountains, so everything is a hill to come back home. I originally did not have gauges (tight budget & if your on one, you understand). I figured there was no way Dodge would make a system that would allow their investment (warranty costs) to meltdown (since they would be paying for these problems). I found out I was wrong to an extent. It is probably not easy to overheat a truck that has no weight in it (anything is possible) and that is what Dodge probably uses as a baseline (looking around, I'm sure most of their trucks aren't used to their "full" extent).



On the otherhand, it is possible to go past 1250, 1300 and even up to 1400 degrees if you are not careful when you start adding weight and hills. I originally had the Pyro post-turbo before I was towing. I was more concerned about shutdown, again rationalizing that Dodge would not allow a system to reach meltdown in the stock configuration. I moved it pre-turbo last summer when I got my trailer and found out I was misinformed. It is entirely possible to run hot Pyro temps. both with and without weight in back, even when trying to be careful. It is also likely most people shutdown before proper cooling is achieved.



Having said that, is running 1300 degrees for a couple of minutes or shutting down prior to proper cooling going to instantly melt your truck down? Probably not, just like overheating a gasser once, slightly, won't blow it up. Doing it on a regular basis though is going to shorten the life of something. How short? Well that is the million dollar question. Gauges allow us to try and add as much life as possible, but if their not in the budget, then drive cautiously and realize there are plenty of people out there who never melt their truck down and don't treat it nearly as nicely as most people on this forum.....



But as soon as it can be worked into the budget, get the gauges. If nothing else, their fun to watch and learn from... .

 

[JPLB22]

But as soon as it can be worked into the budget, get the gauges. If nothing else, their fun to watch and learn from... .

That is exactly what I did. I only tow a few times each season ( a few summer fun trips and a few winter ones ) but when I do tow it is pretty heavy 6-8000 lbs. I really do enjoy watching my gauges when not towing. I think I have improved my fuel mileage slightly by driving with the gauges. Keep EGT's and boost down , fuel pressure up, for better mileage.



Jeff

 

[jeepmodman]

I dont see how 1300 degrees egt could hurt one of these engines, the small airplanes i work on run 1600 degrees pre turbo for several minutes until they reach desired altitude and that does not hurt anything.

 

[crobertson1]

I agree with RDWomack. I think it a lot easier than most people realize to run it too hot. I can easily get mine too hot if I'm not careful and I've got a 4" exhaust which supposedly keeps EGTs down a little. Other than that I"m running stock.

 

[CPjMech]

Sageair wrote:

I appreciate your replies so far but now I have a follow up question. To supplement my day job I am hauling hay and cattle evenings and weekends. I am driving a 2000 Peterbilt that has a Cat 3406. It has no pyrometer. Is the Cat a smarter engine than my ETH and does it protect itself somehow from high e. g. t's? Once again thankyou for your replies.



Hi there, just joined TDR. So this is my first post, love all the great info here. I work for the largest CAT dealer in Western WA, the Pre Oct2002 engines are no smarter than any other electronically controlled eng out there. They will get high EGT's if they are out of tune or out of specs. CAT likes a pyro, but it is up to the truck OEM to install, but they are not required to do so. We always suggest a pyro no more than 6" from the outlet of the turbine hsg. and not to exceed 1050F.

The Post Oct2002 engines are a bit smarter, they do have a built in high EGT derate that is controlled by the intake man temp, boost, and eng load factor (no pyro to the ECM). They are also running hotter than the older engines. Hope this helps. Looking forward to many more years of service from my Cummins.

 

[Hohn]

The short answer is YES-- anything is possible. You can certainly melt down a stock truck. All it takes is a blown intercooler boot. That's why even though DC is cheap, they use high quality clamps on those boots.



Ever truck will vary as to what it's absolute EGT limit is. Some bores are tighter, so if they will seize the pistons eariler. Some oils are better at high temps, so the bores are less likely to seize. Some turbos are more fragile than others.



The Cummins number of 1275 degrees so often touted as the "absolute limit" is NOT that. Cummins says that the engine will run ALL DAY at that temperature, with full safety. As you exceed that, the amount of time the engine can operate will shorten. The higher you go, the faster that time of operation shortens. When EGT hits 2000, you can be you wont be able to operate it for long.



Just because aluminum melts at 1300 degrees doesn't mean that 1300 EGT is your cutoff. Truth is, your piston crown temperatures are MUCH lower than your EGT. At the "Cummins limit" of 1275, the pistons crowns are probably not even over 1000°. So don't put too much stock in 1300° as an absolute number-- it all depends on how long you are running, how hard you are working the engine and such.



You will RARELY hear of a stock CTD overheating with the manual transmission. Usually, it is associated with the automatic trans trucks. Why? Basically, the ATF gets so hot that the radiator can't cool BOTH the engine AND the transmission, so you end up with an overheat. THe culprit is the looseness in the OEM torque converter, which generates a lot of heat. This won't matter much when running empty, but if you tow-- LOOK OUT! Your trans temp can flash up to 300 degrees under some circumstances.



The bottom line is that overheating is usually caused by auto trannys. While you WILL see high egt from the ETH (especially in the thin air), you are not likely to melt anything. Just keep the RPM up (over 2K) when climbing hard, and you will be just fine...



Oh-- and for a cheap extra measure of insurance, you can get a cheap boost fooler and boost elbow. This will NOT increase power, but it WILL raise boost and lower EGT to manageable levels. Since you have stock injectors (and no box), I would say that this cheap upgrade would make you just bulletproof as far as melting anything down, even in the mountains.



Justin