Will my 2003 be ok with just a new shortblock?

[GShail]

I have posted previously regarding the problems recently experienced with my 2003. Here is a brief re-cap. I blew two injectors which filled the crankcase with fuel and took out the turbo. Dealer replaced injectors and turbo, but then we had a knocking noise. I pointed out the knocking noise and they tore the motor down further to reveal scuffed pistons on #1 and #6. At this point they informed me they would be warranty me with a new shortblock.



My question is, shouldn't they be replacing this with a longblock instead of just a shortblock? I don't feel very confident with them using my old head and valves which sufferred the injector failure along with the rest of the motor. The engine had 65,787 miles at the time of the injector failure. Since the fuel adversley affected the pistons and cylinders, why would I not have some problems with the top half of the motor (lifters, valves, etc. )?



I am going to keep this truck instead of trading it in, and I am currently working out a deal on a 2004. 5. In any event, I would like the 2003 to be repaired properly, and feel like the dealer is doing the least amount possible to repair the truck.



Am I getting screwed?

 

[rbattelle]

Well, since we have a direct-injection system I doubt the valves were adversely affected. However, if you look over the lubrication section in the service manual you find that there are oil paths in the rocker arms. Will running heavily diluted oil through these components ruin them? I think it depends on how long they were run (number of cycles) with the poor lubrication condition. In my opinion, these engines are built to handle a lot of abuse and your head is probably just fine.



So no, I don't think you're getting "screwed". I mean, you'll still have another 35000 miles worth of engine warranty remaining, so if the head is screwed up they can replace it later.



I'm sorry to hear you had this huge fuel system failure and I wish you best of luck getting peace of mind from the dealer.



-Ryan

 

[GShail]

I think it my have run about 150 miles with fuel slipping into the crancase. I had fueled just prior to this occurring, and about two minutes before it went down I was thinking to myself, "Man I am either getting poor fuel economy or didn't get completeley filled up. " Right after that thought, I heard twing, twang, twung & then splooooooooge !!!!!!!!. Immediate fuel smell, TONSof smoke, complete power loss. Prior to the incident I detected no fuel smell, power loss, nor anything else.



My best estimate isaround 150 mileswith fuel slipping, leaking into crankase. Would this hurt my valves, rocker arms, top half of the engine?

 

[nickleinonen]

Would this hurt my valves, rocker arms, top half of the engine?

i don't think it would have done any damage to the valves. the rocker arms should also be ok, but just check [ask/demand to see the parts] the seat for the pushrod and see how it looks [a little wear is normal]. pushrods will also be ok. lifters will be pooched, as is the camshaft, but hopefully the new short block has that pre installed.

 

[GShail]

I tried to go inspect the valves, pushrods, etc. but the engine has already been 90% reassembled. The service manager actually bristled at me questioning the parts wear. So did the technician. This is a little puzzling since I have not bothered them or been a pain in the ass in an way. I am very unhappy with my local dealership. They have been slow, lackadasical, disorganized (ordered wrong parts) and in general didn't seem to have a clue as to what the problems could be. They have in fact tried to do the least possible to fix my truck. The good old boy who owned the dealership sold out to a corporate outfit (Lithia) and there is no longer good service and home town cooking. I guess it doesn't matter that I have purchased 10 vehiclesfrom that location, I am no longer a favored son, but just another stiff off the street. Needless to say, I will be shopping somewhere else to purchase my vehicles. The question still lurks in my mind? Am I going to be ok with just a shortblock?

 

[NDanecker]

I personally wouldn't accept just a shortblock. In addition, I don't trust their mechanical ability to assemble the head, adjust valves, etc on the new block. At minimum I'd strongly suggest a Cummins tech to complete this job.



Oil is extremely important for the valve train and rockers. I'd ask them to prove to you that the head and valve train did NOT sustain damage even though the lower block did (have them show you the head disassembled to see for yourself, or are they just guessing and haven't thorougly inspected the head???). What sort of warrenty are they going to provide now that the head was run without proper lubrication? I think its safe to say that the negative effect is MORE THEN ZERO. Its just how much and at what point do they say, "Yep, replace the long block!"



Good luck... ... .

 

[SRadke]

My understanding was that the dealers weren't allowd to tear into a Cummins and a Cummins certified tech was required to do the job. If that is the case the dealer should just drop in a long block and be done. I'd be asking some questions. Perhaps another dealer could tell you what they would do?



-Scott

 

[GShail]

I have lost all trusty for my local service department. They say that now that is mostly reassembled that we will just have too wait and see.

 

[BRayls]

I know a dealer a few miles east of here that sends theirs to haisley. dealer I use has cummins tech.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The shortblock is probably what it needs. However, I would get a valve job done, even if I had to pay for it myself. It would only cost around $100-150 and all the labor has been done already.

 

[SRadke]

Just got word from a very credible source at a dealer that said they do not go lower than the head. Valve, head work, turbos they do, anything lower they don't touch.



-Scott

 

[AKAMAC]

I think that what's important here is the fact that your turbo was damaged. There would have to be significant debris being ejected through the exhaust to take the turbo out. Valve seat/valve damage comes to mind. Joe's right, grab the head and do some PM for your truck. I can't belive that the Dealer is so anal. Good luck, Mike

 

[bmoeller]

There would have to be significant debris being ejected through the exhaust to take the turbo out.

That may or may not have happened. The lack of proper lubrication would've been enough to take it out.

 

[jwilliams3]

I would request a new engine.

Although, a new short block should cure your issues.



--Justin

 

[rbattelle]

I am very unhappy with my local dealership. They have been slow, lackadasical, disorganized (ordered wrong parts) and in general didn't seem to have a clue as to what the problems could be. They have in fact tried to do the least possible to fix my truck.

Sounds like the same old story from DC dealers. If this were happening to me I'd be literally sick to my stomach, so I sympathize with you. I do have a recommendation: when this dealer finishes the truck, take it over to a new dealer, tell them what happened and how unhappy you are, and ask them to please inspect the job the other dealer did. Then take it to the nearest Cummins service center and do the same thing. You will likely have to pay for these services at both places, but in my opinion peace of mind is priceless.



When you get it back, listen to it very carefully. Don't get paranoid, but just pay attention and if you hear anything abnormal take it to another dealer. I hope these things will help ease any fears.



As NJTackle mentions, I think the head is probably just fine mechanically, but I question the dealer's ability to properly install the short block under it. If they get it wrong, re-adjustment by a properly trained/skilled service tech can put it back right without needing anymore new parts.



-Ryan