Here I am

Archived will not start

Attention: TDR Forum Junkies
To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.

Thanks, TDR Staff

Archived code p1693

Archived Trying to get to heater core in 03... HELP!

Status
Not open for further replies.
I have an 04. 5 HO that is on the side of the road. I suspected getting some bad fuel a week ago. After going around a sharp turn the engine would spit a few times then continue to run fine. The tank was at 1/8 when this happened. I filled with fuel and some conditioner. Also changed the fuel filter. The truck seemed to run fine. I blew it out a bit coming home and about 30 seconds later it spit and died. then restarted and drove 1 mile and died again. I drained the fuel sep and heard some air. I followed the directions for priming and after 10-15 sessions I called for help and came home to research more. It died about 2 miles from home. Is there a better way to prime? Any ideas would be appreciated. This is the first time this truck has ever given a minute's trouble.

Thanks!
 
Until you get better info , from what I've read with the newer truck the guys have been bleeding injectors something like 1, 3 , 6 I do not remember after opening system or running out of fuel , if luck is with you maybe it just ran out with the slosh going around corner , look around this site or internet get a set of gauges , fuel pressure for this issue .
Maybe you found a place to spend too much time talking about your truck & then spending too much money moding , what ever have fun , welcome .
 
Sorry for the latre reply. I was in a bind and gave up - had it towed to a Dodge dealer with a diesel cert mech. I have 93k miles and have no mods at all - straight stock. According to the dealer, the fuel transfer pump locked up (their best estimate) and this caused the ECM to go out. They ordered $3500+ worth of parts to fix and I should have it Monday. Fortunately, I had 7k left under the cummins warranty and it only cost me $100. My question now is why did it happen. Plus - it makes no sense to me how a locked up trans pump blows an ECM. No one has any good answers or any ideas about preventative measures. Another episode that cost $4k would not be pleasant. I asked about trash in the tank. Dlr is supposed to check. They are moving the trans pump inside the tank as a retro from Cummins. Not sure I like that either. Any thoughts?
 
daadams, I think you'll come out of this fine, although I also don't know if/why you really needed a new ECM. It (new ECM) may be needed as part of the fuel pump "move" but that's just a guess. They may be working from a TSB. Glad you're warranty was still in effect.



Although it's a royal pain to service, having the pump in the tank is the best place for it, at least for a stock setup. That's where you have the highest "head" pressure to the pump which reduces the work the pump has to do, and also reduces the amount of air, mixed into the fuel, downstream of the pump. It's also a good way to keep the pump "cool" although I suspect it simply allows them to just use an even "cheaper" pump.



The so-called "lift pump" has always been a bad or at least a weak method for (stock) fuel delivery to the injector pump. Aftermarket systems from Glacier, FASS, etc. use a much higher capacity pump which encourages the always present air to end up in the return line. They do "lift" fuel, meaning they are "above" the fuel/air line in the tank, however the volume of fuel reaching the return point is much higher therefore most of the air ends up going back to the tank. The increased pressure also makes it possible to place a much better filter ahead of the injector pump.



What "probably" happened to you is your flow rate to the filter head was low enough that you had little, if any, return flow back to the tank. Your injector pump can actually pull its own fuel from the tank but has no means to remove the air, which should happen in the stock filter assembly. Eventually there is enough air around the filter that as you turn, accelerate, or go up/down steep hills that it (the bubble) covers the pick up tube, thus starving the injector pump, which is "hard" on the CP3 and "catastrophic" on the VP44. It's actually an extremely un-complicated condition... meaning... if you stall or sputter in turns, etc. , well... you're probably "pulling" air. Since you are always "pushing" air somewhere, then that means you are failing to "remove" it somewhere in between...



Long story, short version... improving fuel "delivery" to the injector pump is probably one of the best investments you can make since it not only reduces outright failures, it also reduces some normal wear and tear on the injector pump and the injectors themselves. It can also potentially improve your mileage and performance by removing even more of the "normal" air before it reaches the injection pump.



Last but not least... Don't worry too much about so-called "trash" in your fuel. I replaced my own ('06) in-tank pump at about 180K and there was almost zero "trash" in the tank... not even enough to soil a single paper towel. There was exponentially more debris in the bottom of the pump "assembly" and most of that was tiny metalic slivers which are an un-avoidable by-product of any high capacity fuel station (from their own pumps, valves, nozzels, etc. ). As long as you buy fuel at a reputable location and take care of your own truck, "trash" is mostly "myth"...



FWIW, I am not a vendor or rep. I haven't even taken my own advice here... yet. Still relying on, and worrying about, my in-tank pump. However, with an aux tank, I rarely let my stock tank fall below 10 gallons and try to keep it at 25+ (better cooling + less sloshing/air). Yet another reason I love my T-Flo tank/Trax-II setup. I also have a 2u filter between the tanks and only add fuel at the aux tank so the stock system stays very clean and dry, end to end. Diesel or gas, one of the best and easiest things you can do is to try to keep your tank full... Hoping that last sentence will earn me some forgiveness for such a long post.



Good luck.
 
No need to ask forgiveness! Thank you for the insights. I am supposed to get the truck back next week sometime. Can you recommend an aux tank set set up for a 3rd gen? I would like to have the extra tank anyway and peace of mind and a little insurance to help prevent this from happening again would be great! I went with Dodge because of the Cummins and the reliability of the engine/drivetrain. This has been a real shock and would have been a major shock if I had to write a $4100 check (new dealer estimate)!

Thanks again!
 
Well, keep in mind that if you did have this problem again a more realistic estimate is more like $150-$200 for the pump "module" plus 1-2hrs labor at a dealer. It's not terribly hard to change an in-tank fuel pump yourself, but it obviously involves dropping the tank. Honestly, you probably don't need to worry about another failure for quite some time anyway if they've eliminated the front/lift pump.



Most, if not all current aux tank setups simply move fuel to your stock tank so initially the only "reliability" gain is that you can keep the bottom tank from consistently running low. I could go on and on about why it's a good idea to keep plenty of fuel in the tank but don't really want to start a debate. The bottom line, IMHO, is that it's perfectly OK to use the full "capacity" of your tank when you need it, but the default, daily "condition" should be 1/2 tank or more... too many people keep just enough to get around, often resulting in tens of thousands of miles at or even well below 1/4 tank. Reducing condensation alone is a good enough reason to keep it full. Keeping the pump fully submerged (longer) is a close second...



I have, and can't recommend anything but... Transfer Flo for an aux tank. I've had mine since long before joining TDR, btw. The construction AND design of the tank itself is outstanding and it's hard to describe how valuable the Trax-II controller is, especially when you drive thousands of miles a week, as many here do. All of their tanks are tested and fully certified for use as a TRUE auxillary tank. No matter what you read or what anyone tells you, keep in mind that there are probably three myths for every fact when it comes to "legal" fuel tanks. Of course, there is also a lot less enforcement than many will claim as well.



I don't want to keep stretching out a 911 thread but I'd be happy to share more opinions if a "fuel tank" thread starts. I have T-flow's 98 gallon DP alluminum tank. I had it installed for about $200 less than the MSRP at Dan's in Elkhart, IN (great folks, btw). It's had about 21 thousand (yes, thousand) gallons of fuel pass through it and so far it's been just about the most reliable thing mounted to my truck... or built into it, for that matter.



Please let us know if you learn more about why that estimate is so high. There are probably several people in the forum that are at least as curious as I am, especially if it involves a "revised" ECM which may be hard to anticipate... I'm also wondering if the original pump was on the accessory drive??? '04. 5 models are right at 3yrs old now (warranty???).
 
My TRAX fuel tank has 121,000 miles on it. Was installed when the truck was new in 1998. Never given one minutes worth of trouble. Totally a non-issue on worries. It does the job, and I like the digital "fuel remaining" display. That part though, you have to take with a grain of salt as the fuel floats are constantly moving up/dn with the fuel sloshing.

It's great having a tool box across the bed also. Mine is the 50 gallon model with a 6" deep tool box. Occassionally wish the tool box were deeper, but that would reduce the fuel available.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top