Will this work?

[Farmall Hauler]

Hello to all!



I have a buddy with a 95 Ford Mustang which he will be rebuilding the 5. 0 L in. He also has access to a totaled out 91 Ram 2500 with a Cummins in it. He is wondering if he can pull the turbo out of the Truck and put it on the Mustang for improved performence? the truck only has 80-thousand miles on it, and turbo looks very clean!



Any help on this will be apreciated!



Mark

 

[bgilbert]

Wish I had access to a wrecked 1st gen Dodge Cummins PARTS



Sorry no help on the turbo addition.

 

[RabidRam]

shucks... I thought you were going to say he wanted to put the entire Cummins in the Mustang.

 

[MRickard]

You would have to custom make the connection pieces, and then you would have to deal with how to utilize the other side's exgaust. You would also have to deal with mixture issues, unless you had a fuel injection, as you would have to get progressivley richer as throttle goes down to match the increase of air as more fuel is applied. It would be easy to lean them out. A V design is usually nicer with a twin setup, especially a two stage, that way you do not have the loss of one side being so far from the turbo. The turbo is probably a big one too, might be ineffective with just a 302 unless it is a high rever.



If you have access to that engine, and are not interested in it, you would be better off just selling it for several grand and buying a blower for it, or a 514 blown if you want to rock n roll (with tickets, that is)

 

[DKasper]

Hmmm . . . I am certainly not the Turbo Oracle, but from what I know about the differences in how a diesel works with a turbo and how a gasser works with a turbo, I would say your buddy's idea may not be such a good one. Feel free to correct/beat on me -- part of why Im writing this is to see if I'm thinking of this properly! Here's my logic:



A basic difference between gas and diesel is the gas fuel/air mixing happens outside the combustion chamber, while a diesel injects the fuel directly into the cylinderwith the air already present. The volatility of the gas/air mixture limits how much pressure you can put it under before it detonates outside of the cylinder.



A diesel uses the turbo in pretty much a constant state of boost -- meaning that usually it's putting out at least 2-6 lbs boost and it's happy doing it The impeller design is structured to be pretty efficient at scavenging the heat/velocity from the exhaust stream. One reason this is OK is that there are no detonation issues with a diesel -- we can stuff as much air(within reason) as we want to in our cylinders and as long as there is the appropriate amount of fuel, it will burn it. The turbo is designed around a range of fueling for it's application -- that's why some of the guys on the list who have bumped up the fuel delivered in their engines have to put bigger turbos on -- not enough air to burn the fuel.



When you are boosting a gas/air mixture, you have to be a lot more careful about how you do it and what pressures are reached. Some of my friends who do some racing tell me that 6-8 pounds of boost is about the max for a gas engine. That may not be spot-on accurate, but I'd guess it's pretty close for a reasonable application -- I'm sure there are some guys out there pushing more somehow.



So, taking a turbo capable of making 30+ pounds of boost in a diesel and putting it on a gas engine, assuming the exhaust flow is similar in volume and heat content, I'm going to guess that you're going to have detonation problems.



I don't know if a wastegated housing set real light, like 6 pounds, would work or not



Sorry for the long post! Please correct me where wrong, guys!



Dave

 

[SRadke]

Originally posted by DKasper

I don't know if a wastegated housing set real light, like 6 pounds, would work or not.

Dave

No wastegate on the first gens but the rest of it sounds reasonable..... to some degree.



-Scott

 

[MRickard]

You are correct DKasper.

The only thing a little confusing is that you would use the turbo just to compress the air, and then feed the carb/FI with compressed air (preferably cooled too)



6-8 PSI is average for a lot of gas setups. Detonation is the main hold back. You have to run this for a <i>minimum</i> if you are to use any kind of forced induction:



Forged Crank ($700+)

Forged Pistons w/ low compression (like 7. 5:1) ($550)

Extreme Rods ($650+)

High Octane fuel as needed to prevent detonation ($1,000's)



Diesel engines sort of operate (throttle) by mixture, where as gas uses a (more or les) fixed mixture and a restriction of the amount of it (butterfly valves) to throttle it.



A camshaft just for forced induction helps too.



One thing you can do that turbos are excellent at providing (althoug seems out of your purpose) is to use it as a altitude compensator, and utilize a absolute (not relative like most) method of controlling boost, so you always have the same amount of air, giving better static fuel air mixtures at various altitudes.



Anyway, I would not use it "just because it is there" because in the end, the price for that turbo is nothing compared to what it would cost to build the whole thing up. There are turbos on gas engines a lot, and I am sure there is one built just for a small block ford. If you want more power, I would get a big block!

 

[Farmall Hauler]

Hello Guys,



Thank you for the quick posts. I was sort of thinking that his idea would not work, but I knew that you fellows would have the right answer! I do have to give him credit, that it is a nice idea though! If any of you have any more thaughts on this, keep them coming!



And yes, it would be a neat idea to put the entire engine in the car!



Again Thank you!



Mark.

 

[Greenleaf]

There is a gentleman on our tractor pulling circuit that's abandoned the factory blower in favor of a turbo. It's a V12 aircraft engine. Fuel injected.



Some aircraft engines use both a blower and a turbo w/cooler. I don't believe they had to contend with detonation with the av gas used in them days. Some employed water injection.



I dunno about Ford gassers. A blower would be the preferred method. I know of no one employing a turbo on the automotive engines placed in the Modified tractors and Super Mod 4X4's.



Scott

 

[tugboatphil]

There was an 80's Mustang SVO that had a turbocharged 4 banger. Might work something with that hardware, if you could find it.

 

[MMiller]

I would have to say the 5. 0 would probably have problems spooling a turbo of this size. If and when it got spooled then hold on.



I have one buddy running a paxton style charger on his 5. 0 and is having fuel delivery problems, detonation problems etc. His cousin is running small twins on a small ford, and had a heck of a time getting enough fuel to it. Its possible to run turbos on gassers, just an intirely differnt beast. I know of one setup of twins on a 502 2wd pulling truck, one on each side. When the bugs go worked out it ran with the blower trucks with a lot less money in parts. As said above, detonation is troublesome in gassers with forced induction.



Michael

 

[phillips5]

Where in toledo I live in swanton west of toledo 12 miles. I have something for you if I can find all the pieces. It is a turbo off a 80's v6 Buick. It is made for a quadrijet carb but you can mak a plate and skip the carb. It has a waist gate. I also have a 4" turbo off a mack and a 5" turbo off a 855 cummins.