Wind chill -50

[HSpiering]

How do you start a truck in Fargo if you go to work and park it all day?? At chill factor -30 -50. I have been told never let your battery freeze. Don't see how it will not in a couple hours. Oh yea, we had a clear 50 degree out west today.

 

[NIsaacs]

Wind chill only pertains to warm bodies not trucks, lol. Example: If it is 32* and the wind chill is 0* water will not freeze.

We are getting a small dose of the big chill, 13* this morning with a high of 42* today.

Nick

 

[mwilson]

How do you start a truck in Fargo if you go to work and park it all day?? At chill factor -30 -50. I have been told never let your battery freeze. Don't see how it will not in a couple hours. Oh yea, we had a clear 50 degree out west today.

Batteries won't freeze as long as they are fully charged from what I have seen over the years. If they are dead then they will after a while.

What is the actual temp supposed to be? As Nick says, the wind chill only affects skin. The steel will be the same temp as the thermometer is showing. Don't stick your tongue on anything........

A vehicle sitting all day that was running that morning will be fine. After an overnight shutdown is when they will start hard in the cold.

A hard and fast rule up here is to start vehicles before sun up if at all possible. Two reasons, first being that the temperature will drop at first light and second being the sun will start to draw the frost out of the block and makes for much harder starting.

Mike.

 

[DonFitzwater]

Wind chill is for wimps......it doesn't apply to batteries! Tell me when your ambient temps hit -50, then we'll talk about battery pads.

 

[Grizzly]

29 above in Albuquerque. No wind chill.

 

[rscurtis]

I forget which network I was listening to yesterday, but someone mentioned the fact that even engines with proper anti-freeze protection would freeze up in the -50* WC. I couldn't believe I actually heard that.

 

[AH64ID]

I forget which network I was listening to yesterday, but someone mentioned the fact that even engines with proper anti-freeze protection would freeze up in the -50* WC. I couldn't believe I actually heard that.

Every winter I get people telling me that windchill will freeze things... They believe it so much that you look like an idiot trying to explains that it's an apparent effect on living things, not actual temp.

 

[Jim W]

We have an ambient temperature of -15 this morning with wind chill of -40 to -45 depending on the wind speed. My wife’s Jetta and the Ram started up right up my wife’s car has sat since Friday afternoon without starting. Both are diesel engine vehicles with fully charge batteries.
Jim W.

 

[kcv67]

If people are worried about wind chill they better not drive over 25 mph:-laf

 

[mwilson]

40 degrees here today, raining cats and dogs. Will drop back into the single digits tonight. Freezing rain and road flooding from frozen drains this morning.

Some roofs will be lost today for sure.

Evening commute will be a 65 mile luge run..........#@$%!

Mike.

 

[mwilson]

If people are worried about wind chill they better not drive over 25 mph:-laf

Oh, I like that one!!!!

Mike.

 

[richardcoxid]

" the sun will start to draw the frost out of the block and makes for much harder starting." What does this mean???

 

[mwilson]

" the sun will start to draw the frost out of the block and makes for much harder starting." What does this mean???

Frost will get into an engine block just as it will with any piece of cold metal. As the metal warms the frost will start to come out of it. It seems to make the oil thicker and the engine itself is more reluctant to roll over.

When starting cold trucks and equipment in the woods that had sat all night or weekend during a cold snap we had to resort to the use of a propane flamethower and 8" stovepipe with a 90 degree elbow at the end. We would thaw the engine out from the oil pan up using that method, and there was no point in trying to start it until the frost was all out of the block.

In my Voc Tech days in Presque Isle, Maine many a below zero winter day was spent simply hauling no-starts into the garage so that they would thaw out. You could watch the engine turn all white from the frost that was in it after the vehicle sat in the shop for a bit.

Maybe there is a more technical explanation for it, but it does happen when cold.

Mike.

 

[richardcoxid]

Wind chill is a measure of the RATE that an object cools (heat is being removed) if there is air movement around the object.

IE. If you have a 140*cup of coffee and it is too hot to drink what do you do? You blow on it. What is happening, the increased air flow on the coffee causes the hot liquid to cool off more rapidly. If your breath is 96* the coffee will never cool below 96* (forgetting evaporation).
Going back to the OP’s -50* wind chill factor. If the air temperature is -10* degrees the object will never be below -10*degrees. The RATE that the heat is being removed from the object is the same as if the object is in -50* still air.

Remember evaporation removes heat! In addition to wind speed, wind chill is also dependant on moisture on the object being cooled. Animals (humans) have moisture on their skin, which increases the rate that heat is being removed, which is why you have to be very careful about frostbite when the wind is blowing across your unprotected skin.

Point Two

A “fully” charged battery has had the Lead Sulphate plates changed more into Lead, increasing the amount of Sulfuric Acid in the battery water which lowers the freezing point of the liquid. In a “dead” battery the Sulfuric Acid has moved into the lead changing it more into Lead Sulphate which lowers the Acid concentration (making it more like water) increasing the freezing temperature. That is why the best way to check the % charge of a Battery is to use a Hydrometer (a digital Volt meter is a close 2nd) which measures the specific gravity of the battery acid. More Acid= charged Batt. less Acid=dead Batt.

 

[HSpiering]

richardcoxid
That's my point. At 20 degrees the water in my shed, the ground down an inch down freezes, top of my plants die off. Add a 30 mile hr wind and my plants die my plumbing freezes up. Thing start to go bad fast Yes chill factor is on my skin but it also freezes deeper real fast.

Now next question?? If antifreeze and deicer is freezing what are the chances of the gas station is using enough anti-gel. So I guess I would ask how much and what are people adding to their fuel if any thing at all?

 

[Bill Stockard]

Frost will get into an engine block just as it will with any piece of cold metal. As the metal warms the frost will start to come out of it. It seems to make the oil thicker and the engine itself is more reluctant to roll over.

When starting cold trucks and equipment in the woods that had sat all night or weekend during a cold snap we had to resort to the use of a propane flamethower and 8" stovepipe with a 90 degree elbow at the end. We would thaw the engine out from the oil pan up using that method, and there was no point in trying to start it until the frost was all out of the block.

In my Voc Tech days in Presque Isle, Maine many a below zero winter day was spent simply hauling no-starts into the garage so that they would thaw out. You could watch the engine turn all white from the frost that was in it after the vehicle sat in the shop for a bit.

Maybe there is a more technical explanation for it, but it does happen when cold.

Mike.

Mike,

The engine block frost you describe is caused by the air surrounding the block is warmer or is warming faster than the block. The moisture in the warm air condenses on the cold block, and if the block temperature is below freezing, it makes frost.

Bill

 

[DonFitzwater]

I run number 1 diesel year round. I never use additive any more.......you boys in the lesser 48 may want a splash of additive if your stations are running #2 into winter........

 

[gapayne]

I agree with much of what has been said about wind chill. Any body, alive or not, which has internal heat develops a very thin layer of warm air at its surface which helps insulate it from the cold. The wind chill gives a measure of the effect of the wind in stripping/removing this surface layer of air and gives the effective equivalent air temperature at zero wind. So if the temperature is 0 degrees and the wind chill -20 degrees, then the effect of the wind in stripping the very thin layer of insulating air from the surface of an internally heated body is similar to a temperature of -20 degrees without wind. As stated by richardcoxid you can also think of it as the rate at which the object is cooled by the wind. With the size and weight of the Cummins, once it is warmed up, it will actually hold heat for quite a while. Cold temperatures and wind chills shorten the time, of course.

Regarding your original question, what I DON'T recommend is what I did when my 2006 was still new. I worked part-time driving tour bus and came in from a run at around 2:00 am with the temperature around -13 F and the wind chill even lower. I had parked with the radiator facing into the wind and the temperature had dropped significantly while I was gone on my run. I knew the recommended procedure was to turn the key to on until the start indicator turned off (operating the intake manifold heaters) and then turn the key further to activate the starter and start the engine. I out-smarted myself. I thought that if one cycle of the manifold heaters was good, two would certainly be better at that cold temperature. Well after using all that current for two cycles of the heaters and with the engine still being fairly tight from being new with only a few thousand miles there wasn't enough left in the batteries to spin the engine fast enough to get it to fire. I didn't realize that the heaters drew hundreds of amps per cycle. That second cycle really pulled the batteries down.

What I DO recommend is what is the owner's manual recommends: One cycle until the start indicator turns off and then start the engine. I did this the next time I had similar -13 or -15 temperature and had no problem starting the engine. It sounded a bit rough at first, but it started and ran.

You ask what else can be done? Can you find a place to plug in the block heater? As I understand it, all the engines come with one installed, although the cord may not be installed. You can get a cord from Geno's. Also I have added an additive to my fuel to ensure that the post 2007 low sulphur fuel was providing sufficient lubricity. Although I use Stanadyne Performance Formula most of the additives have an anti-gel which helps with the cold.

Gary

 

[BIGNASTY]

I run number 1 diesel year round. I never use additive any more.......you boys in the lesser 48 may want a splash of additive if your stations are running #2 into winter........

Food for thought!!!


Why shouldn’t I just use Diesel Fuel No. 1?
While Diesel Fuel No. 1 has an advantage in low temperature conditions, there are some disadvantages, as well. The energy content of Diesel Fuel No. 1 is about 95% that of Diesel Fuel No. 2 and will provide a correspondingly lower fuel economy.

Diesel Fuel No. 1 is also lower in viscosity and provides less lubrication for the fuel pump and fuel distributor.



I run Pump Diesel in winter, so I have been using this on all of our equipment

http://www.schaefferoil.com/diesel-treat-2000-winter.html

Mechanic at the Case IH Dealer suggested it, seems to make the Dodge fire up better and smoother than it did with other anti-gel that I was using. And is ok to use with the afterburner exhausts on the Audi and Case IH

 

[AH64ID]

What I DO recommend is what is the owner's manual recommends: One cycle until the start indicator turns off and then start the engine. I did this the next time I had similar -13 or -15 temperature and had no problem starting the engine. It sounded a bit rough at first, but it started and ran.

The owners manual says that 2 cycles is beneficial. A new motor is not that much tighter than a used motor, there are still plenty of clearances. My current motor with 1000 miles on it is starting just the same in cold weather as my old one.

How long was your commute to make the run? I wonder if the batteries never got fully charged on the way there.

For Extremely Cold Weather Starting — Engine
Manifold Air Temperature Below 0°F (- 18°C)
In extremely cold weather below 0°F (- 18°C) it may be
beneficial to cycle the manifold heaters twice before
attempting to start the engine. This can be accomplished
by turning the ignition OFF for at least 5 seconds and
then back ON after the WAIT TO START light has gone
off, but before the engine is started. However, repeated
cycling of the manifold heaters will result in damage to
the heater elements or reduced battery voltage.