winter diesel fuel question????

[BrittonTurner]

i'm sure this has been discussed before but i haven't found it.



could someone tell me the difference between winter diesel and regular diesel?



i hope this isn't a stupid question but i really don't know.



thanks



britt

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

In the North East winter diesel is a blend of 50/50 #2 diesel and #1 kerosene. It varies by location as there is usually a spec based on local temperatures.

 

[bmoeller]

Not a stupid question, but has been discussed before.



Straight #2 diesel in the summer and a blend of #1 and #2 diesel in the winter. #1 has lower temp for when it strarts to gel. Has less energy than #2. Mileage goes down, and a little less power with #1.

 

[bmoeller]

TT1, looks like you type faster than me. :-laf

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Interesting....

Last year a TDR member was at a fuel station. He watched the tanker guy take a five gallon jug of Power Service Diesel additive

and empty it in the underground tank. Then he filled the tank with a new load of diesel fuel.



TDR member asks what he poured in first.



Tech answers: " Power Service. I'm making winter fuel"



Geeze, I wish my station did it that way. Adding Power Service to #2 diesel would'nt drop winter mileage 2-3 MPG

 

[DocDetonancour]

Additive results

My regular fuel stop uses additive and it still cuts the mileage per gallon. On the rare occasion that I had to use the #1 blend I noticed a huge reduction.

 

[Tony T.]

That summer #2 diesel must have a better punch to it, I was averaging 16. 5 mpg to 16. 9 mpg mostly city driving, very little highway, and serveral stop lights, but as of the first part of December here in North Texas the last couple of tank fulls was about 2 mpg less around 14. 9 mpg. I hope it's the blended fuel and not something else causing the reduction.

 

[dieselpilot1969]

I've also noticed a little less push with the punch of the go pedal

 

[Dean Upson]

I have always believed that part of the decrease in mileage in winter was due to cold rubber and lubricants.



Dean

 

[Crunch]

Originally posted by Tony T.

That summer #2 diesel must have a better punch to it, I was averaging 16. 5 mpg to 16. 9 mpg mostly city driving, very little highway, and serveral stop lights, but as of the first part of December here in North Texas the last couple of tank fulls was about 2 mpg less around 14. 9 mpg.

I live in North Texas and noticed a 2-3MPG drop with my last tank over the weekend. but I don't think they are using the winter blend of diesel here, at least yet. We've had a few nights of freezing temperatures, but I'm still running around in shorts, for the most part. I've heard whole winters go by here and they never change the diesel mix over.

 

[rbattelle]

Actually, number 1 diesel has more energy content than #2.



Lower heating value for #1: 18240 Btu/lbm

Lower heating value for #2: 18000 Btu/lbm

Lower heating value for #3: 17790 Btu/lbm



But #1 is less dense than #2 (quite a bit less dense), which is probably why you notice a decrease in MPG.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

rbattelle,



What's the BTU/lbm of this fuel. They only list it btu per pound.

http://www.hiperfuels.com/index.cgi...1072217272&Merchant=highfuelsn&ExpandedDepts=

 

[rbattelle]

Hemi,



"lbm" is "pounds-mass", as opposed to "lbf", which is "pounds-force". For objects close to Earth, they're the same.



What I'm trying to say is, when that site says "20300 Btu/pound", it's the same as "20300 Btu/lbm". Sorry about that.



That additive is interesting... I wonder what the heck it is. To be honest, it sounds a bit dangerous!

 

[LightmanE300]

Winter blended diesel, which may either be blended with diesel #1 or kerosene in varying blend percentages, also has much less lubricity. When I lived up north I always made a point to put my own additives in the tank during the winter to ensure lubricity. During extreme cold, the engine would definitely start more smoothly and quietly with the additive compared to without...

 

[Jeremiah]

Originally posted by Dean Upson

I have always believed that part of the decrease in mileage in winter was due to cold rubber and lubricants.



Dean

Dean, I am STILL getting 20 mph or better unless I haul a lot of water, in which case the mileage might drop to 19. 5 or so. I count my blessings! But the new Honda Pilot I bought my wife gets less than that, so it works out about even. Hee!

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I wonder what the density of #2 is compared to #1? How about BTU by volume (as in BTU per gallon) between the two?



Vaughn

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

Vaughn -



I even added a couple more in for good measure. Please note that these numbers will change from supplier to supplier and from day to day on any given source



Propane - 91,690 BTU/Gallon 4. 24 lb/gal



Butane - 102,400 BTU/Gallon 4. 81 lb/gal



Kerosene Jet A\ K1 - 127,856 BTU/Gallon 6. 7542 lb/gal



#2 Diesel - 132,000 BTU/Gallon 7. 034 lb/gal

 

[Hunter1]

I would much prefer a diesel that has a "winter additive" than a blend of stove oil and diesel.



I stopped at a station in Twin Falls, Id last winter, not sure of the name, the Green Dinosaur Station. Man, that is the worst mileage and power I have ever gotten out of fuel!



Stove oil is much lighter, clear, and smells just great compared to furnace oil, or the fuel we put in out diesel trucks most of the year. But, it has way less poop as it burns quicker etc. and the effects are less power and less mileage. Think of a campfire that is burning nice and steady and hot with a good wood and you add a soft wood and it goes "poof"!



I think the additive they now have is much better than having the old "winter blend" of old



Hunter1

 

[LightmanE300]

additives are great but add them yourself. It's an expense and most stations will not adequately additize their fuel. For example, someone dumping in a 5 gal jug of powerservice into a gas station tank is a joke... . that 5 gals isn't gong to properly treat the few thousand gallons the tank holds, not to mention the fact that powerservice is 77% diesel fuel itself... junk at best

 

[AGrubbs]

Power service concentrate

You must be thinking of the power services you can buy at Wallymart, which is cut with high cetane diesel fuel. 1:400 is the ratio they suggest



You should know that you can also buy just the concentrate. . which is 5 gallons to 7500 gallons of fuel. . or 1:1500 ratio. . Check it out on their web site.



I am tempted to get the concentrate, so I would not need to carry around so much in the truck on trips. I'll have to look into this sometime. . soon as I use up that 6 pack of Howes that I got for $39.