Winter warm-up question

[JohnE]

Greg L;



The Kim Hotstart makes a 150 watt heater with 22mm theads that screw into the Cummins oil pan under part number OLT221515. I don't know the price. I just ordered and am waiting for it to arrive.

The friction curve sky rockets on temperatures below 40*deg; F. I try to plug in the coolant heater when overnight temps fall into the 30's.

I'm of the same opinion, warm coolant, but cold oil is not enough.





NoDak J;



I found my link to the <a href=http://dodgeram.org/tech/repair/HVAC/Defrost_AC.htm target=_blank>A/C disable</a>, the same link Bill (illflem) posted on another thread.



Our double garage is too cluttered with wife's stuff to get either vehicle inside these days. The midweek snowstorm has upped the priority to get it cleaned out though. Once Halloween and deer hunting season passes, we'll get it cleaned.

I have the AMSOIL 5W-30 on the shelf waiting the oil heater. Truck sits outside at work for up to 10 hours on a cold day and at home overnight until we get the garage cleaned. The Cummins tells me it likes warm, too. A coolant heater is not enough IMO



-John

 

[Lsfarm]

Re: Oil heater

Thanks JohnE !



When you receive the heater can you email me a photo of it? I'm curious if it has a removable wiring harness so that the 110V wiring won't have to be removed every time the drainplug needs to come out.



I'm also curious about the price. The surface mount pan heater costs about $54. And should be perminant.



thanks again, Greg L

 

[illflem]

While a oil heater that doesn't boil the oil won't hurt a thing I have to wonder how necessary one is. Crawling around my truck with an infrared temp gun last winter on a 0° morning I found the oil pan temp to be 50°. The block heater had been plugged in all night, engine off for 14 hours,wind was light. Other temps I found were upper radiator hose 115°, intake manifold 75°, pass side of block 92°, top of hood 40° and steering wheel 37°. The block heater cranks, you be the judge if you really need an oil heater. It was too damn cold to crawl around measuring temps when it was -30°, but if all the temps dropped 30° the oil temp would still be 20°. 15-40 petro oil is rated good for use down to 10°.

 

[FAllen]

Great info !

illflem



Thanks for the post, good to know !!



Always wondered how much of the heat got to the rest of the block.

 

[Turbo Terry]

You guys worry to much. I think plugging in at 30-40 degrees above zero is a waste of time and electricity. I use Stanadyne and a short warm up (5 mins. ) and go. When It gets below zero I would start plugging in . JMHO

 

[fest3er]

Originally posted by D Latimer

Does it hurt my truck to not let it warm up before I drive it? As long as I wait for the "wait to start light to go out" and follow the instructions in the owners manual for starting the engine. Put the automatic in neutral and wait a couple of minutes before I drive slowly away. ...

I shouldn't think you would normally need to warm it up. Unless they changed the instructions, they should also tell you to wait until the engine is running reasonably smoothly. That is, when you are starting it at -10 or -20, it's going to run rough until the cylinders warm up some. But at your temps, you hardly need to worry. Just wait for it to be firing on all six. (Ask Bill K. how an engine imbalance can affect the rest of the drivetrain... . )



Since these engines don't generate much waste heat with no load, you need to add a load, which is easy to do with an auto. Just mash down on the brake, slip it into gear, rev it up to 1100 or so, and wait for the chugging and smoke to ease up, if there is any. Then drive off. It really doesn't help to idle or rev it under no load. Besides, 1100 RPM in gear should help to warm up the transmission a bit.



For folks with sticks and ebrakes, you *might* try reving up to 1100 with the ebrake engaged.



Another auto trans trick to remember: if you *must* sit in the vehicle somewhere in sub-zero temps and you want to stay warm, stick it in gear and idle it around 950 RPM. This will make the engine work *just* hard enough to generate heat for the cab. It will *also* keep the coolant temp over 140 degrees, which will keep fuel from condensing and 'washing' the cylinders. If you have to let the engine idle in gear and unattended, you might want to consider line-locks for the brakes, as the emergency brake *might* not be as reliable as is desired; perhaps good wheel chocks might work.



Fest3er

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by Turbo Terry

You guys worry to much. I think plugging in at 30-40 degrees above zero is a waste of time and electricity. I use Stanadyne and a short warm up (5 mins. ) and go. When It gets below zero I would start plugging in . JMHO

Terry

Based on where you live this whole discussion is grins to you. I bet if you plugged in at 30 - 40 degrees you would be plugging in almost year round. I started this discussion because I am a newbie owner, but I feel the responses have been excellent and I now know what to do to treat my Cummins correctly during what us southerners call winter

Thanks

Denny

 

[Bigsaint]

Dr. Herb... . sounds like you have the high end caveman idle device, mine was purely neanderthal (sp).



Scott W.

 

[JohnE]

Anchorage (and the most of the lower 48) is not colder in the winter than North Dakota and upper Minnesota. It is cooler in the summer though.



Oil takes serious viscosity changes at 32&deg; F, and at 0&deg; F. It gives serious insight in why Fahrenheit put water freezing at 32&deg; instead of 0&deg; as did the Celsius scale. It also lets you know why the SAE viscosity rating is based on 32&deg;F and 212&deg;F. For some metallurgical reason, the friction cure goes ballistic around 40&deg; F.



I have left the RAM outside and with the block heater plugged in all night. On a -30&deg; morning it takes over 10 seconds for the oil pressure to register. That is the longest 10 seconds of my life! That was with a 10W-30 winter weight oil.



<ol type=1>

For me, I do the following for winter:

<li>Make sure your grid heaters function

<li>Use block heater regularly

<li>Cold front

<li>Remove fan and disable auto A/C on defrost setting

<li>AMSOIL&reg;5W-30 synthetic oil

<li>Kim Hotstart pan oil warmer

<li>ESPAR&reg;

</ol>

My opinion is to remove them in reverse order based on your local winter conditions, cost considerations, preference, effectiveness, and of course usage.



-John

 

[illflem]

Originally posted by JohnE

Anchorage (and the most of the lower 48) is not colder in the winter than North Dakota and upper Minnesota. It is cooler in the summer though.

John, I agree and would also include E Washington and Montana. There have been many winters that I've envied Alaska's mild temps while watching weather forecasts. Ocean influence keeps much of inhabited Alaska warmer than the inland lower 48.

Low temp records for the US



This site also has some interesting data. Click on the tables for the location and date of extremes in your state.

 

[k.vickers]

offshoot question

this ? really isn't along the exact lines of the thread, but people keep talking about plugging in their trucks ...

in dead of winter it can get cold here (lows in low 20's to upper teens are pretty common). i know that's not like up north, but it sure as heck feels cold. should i plug the truck in all night? i've heard many comments about this from both sides, and was wanting some fresh information.



thx

 

[Lsfarm]

cold start up

k. vickers, the worst time in your engine's life is when it gets started from a cold condition.



The oil [regardless of type or weight ] is thicker than when warm, obviously thinner winter weight oil is not as thick, this is why we use it.



Thick oil doesn't splash or spray as well or as easy as thin, warmed up to temp. oil



The thicker oil also doesn't move down passageways in the engine as well either.



What all this means is that when you start a cold engine, the rubbing or sliding surfaces that rely on sprayed or splashed oil have poor lubrication at best, usually only what is left on the surface after the last shutdown.



These surfaces include cylinder walls, camshaft lobes, valve stems to name a few.



Even the rotating bearings [connecting rods, main bearings] are for a few moments rotating under load or pressure, without lubricating oil supplied to the bearing under pressure. Ever notice how long it takes to get an indication of oil pressure when starting cold?



A cold engine has a lot more friction than a warm engine, this is why gasoine engines have rich mixture, and high idle speed during start and warm up. Our diesel engines have this friction too, this is why your cold Cummins engine knocks so loudly when it is started cold, it is under load from friction, and is having more fuel than normal [when warm] injected to overcome the friction and maintain idle RPM.



A cold cylinder block also get condensation on the inside durng the warm up period, this ends up in the oil, and unless the engine is run long enough to evaporate the water from the oil , it builds up in the oil, causing early breakdown of the oil. This is why it is wise to change oil more frequently if you make only short drives in your truck.



What all the above adds up to is that one cold start is equal to several thousand miles of wear. [this number is an opinion, but over-the-road trucks generally get double the miles than urban trucks (many shutdowns and restarts) with the same engine].



So, for the cost of a few hours of electricity, you can keep the cylinder walls and most of the block warm, and if the wind isn't blowing too bad, the oil in the oil pan will stay warmer than the outside air. Any amount of preheating will help your engine to lubricate better during the cold start.



I'd set up a timer, and plug in your truck anytime the overnight temps are to drop below 40 F. The time to preheat depends on the outside temp, but two hours is usually plenty. If you don't have a set time when you start up and go every day, then just leave it plugged in! I'ts not very expensive, just a few dollars a month.



Sorry about the long post, I hope it answered your question.



Greg L

 

[k.vickers]

thanks!

greg l.



thank you so much for a great post. a good post is never too long if it is offering good info.



i have no problem paying the electricty for my truck ... small price to pay. one of the main reasons i was asking is that someone on a post one time mentioned that if the heater is plugged in too long it can possible damage (overheat?) certain parts of the engine. if it does not hurt to leave it plugged in for an extended period of time (such as overnight) then i will gladly plug it in when we start hitting the cold nights to come.



thanks again for caring enough for the concerns of a stranger and for taking time to post.

 

[SlyBones]

k. vickers,



Your not a stranger, your one of us.

 

[Lsfarm]

A pleasure

k. vickers:

You are welcome, and it is a pleasure to pass on information to the benefit of others.



If you are concerned about running the heater all night, then there are timers for turning it on at certain hours, and there is a thermostaticly controled outlet that plugs into the end of your extension cord that will turn on the heater when the ambient temperature drops to about 35-40 F.



I can't remember the brand name, but it should be available from a hardwsre store or Lowes or Home Depot. They are primarily used for heat tapes that protect gutters and down spouts from freezing, and other home uses.



I've got to go find a new one myself, I ran over my last one!



As slybones said above, there are no strangers here!



Enjoy your Cummins power!! Greg L

 

[k.vickers]

you guys are great.



thanks

 

[illflem]

Thermocube

The plug in thermostat is called a Thermocube, available at most hardware stores. You can leave your truck plugged in 24/7 all year with no damage to anything but your electric bill.

 

[fest3er]

Re: thanks!

Originally posted by k. vickers

... if it does not hurt to leave it plugged in for an extended period of time (such as overnight) then i will gladly plug it in when we start hitting the cold nights to come. ...

Go to Home Despot and buy a 3-prong appliance timer rated for at least 750W; it'll cost about $15. Set it to turn on about two hours before you expect to start the motor. That should warm it up

just enough. Even though it's only 8 KW-hours to run it overnight, it *is* wasted energy, in a sense.



Fest3er