Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Won't start engine was sitting for 4 months..

[hereismylife]

I changed my fuel filter & filled it up with diesel. Bypassed the fuel heater ( lift pump goes right into the fuel filter). primmed the system till I heard the wierd whinning noise at the ip. I cracked open the first line at ip/delivery valve.



I have no fuel coming out of the ip? what is going on?



Thanks Joe

 

[Flinty]

Make sure the fuel solenoid is pulling the arm on the IP up. I'm assuming it's the Suburban in your sig. you're working on and that it has a p7100.

 

[hereismylife]

Yes that is right. The lever is up. I took off the electric shut off just to make sure that is not the problem. I just don't get what is going on...

 

[Woodenhead]

How much priming did you do? It can take a bit sometimes. I say loosen the filter and prime it until you see fuel running out the top. Then crack the line at the pump (from the filter housing) and prime it some more till you get fuel. Then crack few injection lines loose and do some cranking. Good chance you still have air in the system. If you have all new fuel lines maybe pressurize the tank with some compressed air (15psi) to help push fuel through the lines to the LP.



Mike



Mike

 

[hereismylife]

I did alot of primming and crancking. About 2-3 hours worth. Finally I got this whinning noise at the pump. I figured it should have fuel there but no fuel coming out of the pump.



Yea I was searching this before I posted. I did read about the air (15 psi) Good idea. Well I did get fuel at the top of the filter. I will crack the line right before the ip And see if I am getting fuel/air there.



I will be working on this tommorrow morning and need to get it running. So I want to make sure I got all my bases covered so I can try these out tommorrow.



Also you said crack the injection lines. I got the first one at the pump cracked and I see not movement of air or fuel. I figured I would see either air or fuel movement. Bubbles or something. Maybe I am wrong... ...

 

[Flinty]

The company I work for has a '97 like mine. It's a bugger to re-start if the fuel system is opened up. I will go over my procedure for re-prime in hopes of helping you find something you might have missed. When I change the filter I'll fill it back up with a large syringe through the top of the filter housing with one of the fuel lines removed. This way I know it is as full as possible. Then like you I will pump the lift pump primer until I hear the by-pass valve on the IP squeal. Then I will open up #'s 1 and 3 injection lines at the injector and have my wife crank in 20 sec intervals until I have fuel at the injectors. Sometimes it will threaten to start before I have good flow at the open lines. I have noticed with this truck that an air pocket will form in the fuel line between the tank and the filter and I have to be persistent in my efforts to get it through the system. The lift pump primer will pull fuel off the filter and suck that air bubble right in to it. I would also check for water in fuel especially if it sat with a half-full tank. Of course I guess that doesn't matter if it won't even push fuel through the injection line! If it ran before and it is pulling fuel from the tank. Darn it, it should start. Take the fuel cap off and make sure you don't have a vacuum seal. Thats all the simple stuff I can think of. Beyond that I'd have my nose in the repair manual and wait for more advice here. Luck.

 

[Woodenhead]

Nothing wrong with starting with the lines at the pump since your probably trying to work a lot of air out. If I'm priming my truck after doing work on the fuel system I usually do the ones at the injectors and do at least the first 3 that are easiest to get to just so the fuel moves through faster. If you did that much cranking and everything was OK it should have started a long time ago (you already know that ).



Hate to repeat things here but are your sure the lever is going all the way up? I've heard sometimes when the solenoid is cooked it can move part way but not far enough to make it run (not first hand experience here). Could always wire it up with mechanics wire.



What do you know about the history of the motor? Was it running fine when it was removed for the transplant?



If the lift pump is moving fuel through the filter with the primer button than there's no reason it shouldn't be moving fuel while it's cranking, they're pretty reliable.



Sorry I can't be of much more help here. Be careful not to melt that starter down.

 

[hereismylife]

The company I work for has a '97 like mine. It's a bugger to re-start if the fuel system is opened up. I will go over my procedure for re-prime in hopes of helping you find something you might have missed. When I change the filter I'll fill it back up with a large syringe through the top of the filter housing with one of the fuel lines removed. This way I know it is as full as possible. Then like you I will pump the lift pump primer until I hear the by-pass valve on the IP squeal. Then I will open up #'s 1 and 3 injection lines at the injector and have my wife crank in 20 sec intervals until I have fuel at the injectors. Sometimes it will threaten to start before I have good flow at the open lines. I have noticed with this truck that an air pocket will form in the fuel line between the tank and the filter and I have to be persistent in my efforts to get it through the system. The lift pump primer will pull fuel off the filter and suck that air bubble right in to it. I would also check for water in fuel especially if it sat with a half-full tank. Of course I guess that doesn't matter if it won't even push fuel through the injection line! If it ran before and it is pulling fuel from the tank. Darn it, it should start. Take the fuel cap off and make sure you don't have a vacuum seal. Thats all the simple stuff I can think of. Beyond that I'd have my nose in the repair manual and wait for more advice here. Luck.

Did you ever take the line off at the ip at the delivery valve? If so did you ever see any movement of air bubble or fuel and air combo? I just find it hard to believe that if I here the whinning of fuel going through the bypass valve I figured I would see something coming out of there. Maybe I am wrong in my thinking.

 

[hereismylife]

Nothing wrong with starting with the lines at the pump since your probably trying to work a lot of air out. If I'm priming my truck after doing work on the fuel system I usually do the ones at the injectors and do at least the first 3 that are easiest to get to just so the fuel moves through faster. If you did that much cranking and everything was OK it should have started a long time ago (you already know that ).



Hate to repeat things here but are your sure the lever is going all the way up? I've heard sometimes when the solenoid is cooked it can move part way but not far enough to make it run (not first hand experience here). Could always wire it up with mechanics wire.



What do you know about the history of the motor? Was it running fine when it was removed for the transplant?



If the lift pump is moving fuel through the filter with the primer button than there's no reason it shouldn't be moving fuel while it's cranking, they're pretty reliable.



Sorry I can't be of much more help here. Be careful not to melt that starter down.

Yea my lift pump & starter are brand new. I used new diesel I got at the pump tonight. I just don't get it... .

 

[hereismylife]

Well If any of you have any time to talk on the phone feel free to call me one my cell anytime or I can call you and maybe we can get this figured out so I am good for tommorrow. Pm me and I will give you my number. Thanks for your time and help



Joe

 

[Flinty]

I have not. My logic is the air needs to come out one way or the other so why not at the injector. If I bled at the delivery valve 1st then I would have to move to the injector next anyway. I also haven't seen air/fuel come out, it just starts squirtin'. The whining the lift pump makes is good but remember the air you are pulling into the filter through the fuel line between the tank and filter. When we first got the truck I mentioned in the last post it took me two days to get that @%&$%er started AFTER I fixed it. The thing died in my driveway right after I bought it. The fuel system from the tank to fuel heater was a total debacle. Just recently we changed the filter and switched to a better fuel line and it was a pill to start again. Only this time I was armed with the knowledge of the truck's little quirks and I got it the third try after pumping my butt off. Now the truck in my sig... . she's a sweety to start. Check my previous posts and read what I went through. It was very frustrating, couple that with the fact that I told my boss/father-in-law that he was a damn fool if he let this deal go and then it wouldn't run... . good times.

 

[Woodenhead]

Did you ever take the line off at the ip at the delivery valve? If so did you ever see any movement of air bubble or fuel and air combo? I just find it hard to believe that if I here the whinning of fuel going through the bypass valve I figured I would see something coming out of there. Maybe I am wrong in my thinking.

Your thinking is correct if there is actually fuel in the pump. It is possible that the whining you hear is still air moving through. Maybe the IP drained out while everything was apart which is a situation most don't have to deal with when normally priming. Once you get the fuel through the supply line to the pump as we talked about above, you can loosen the overflow valve on the return line (front of IP on engine side) and keep pumping the primer. If you get fuel here and still don't get anything by cranking then . However if the lift pump is working fine and you cranked for that long then the fuel should have worked it's way through the system by now. I'm sure by now you've figured out a broom handle works great for priming the pump .



Any chance you mixed up a supply and return line while plumbing everything up? No sure if this is really possible, I'd think it's pretty hard to do but I'll admit I've done dumber things. Sorry, just brainstorming here.

 

[Flinty]

BTW, I'm in the travel companion. Now I must hit the rack. Call tomorrow if you like. My wife will give you my cell. Jon

 

[hereismylife]

Yea I am sure the lines are correct. Real hard to do like you said. Thanks for your time. I will be working on this in about 7 hours . need to get it running. I am going to check the lines again make sure they are right. Then I am going to take the line off the return valvec and start priming. If all is good there then I should have some fuel at the delivery valve. If good there I am going to take 3 injecter lines off and start cranking till I see fuel. That is my plan I guess... lol



Well I hope if the ip or return valve is bad it will still run. That I am not sure of.

 

[hereismylife]

BTW, I'm in the travel companion. Now I must hit the rack. Call tomorrow if you like. My wife will give you my cell. Jon

Ok Thanks. night

 

[hereismylife]

I will post update...

I will definetly give an update tommorrow if is does run. We will see how things go.

 

[Joe G.]

I changed my fuel filter & filled it up with diesel. Bypassed the fuel heater ( lift pump goes right into the fuel filter). primmed the system till I heard the wierd whinning noise at the ip. I cracked open the first line at ip/delivery valve.



I have no fuel coming out of the ip? what is going on?



Thanks Joe

The injector lines do NOT have to be bled for a P7100 equiped engine to start. When I removed all my injection lines so I could remove the paint I started it without doing any injection line bleeding. It took two crank for 30 seconds and let cool for two minutes cycles, but it did start. Please explain how you have the lift pump and pre-filter plumbed. The above does not make sense. In the stock setup a steel line goes from the lift pump to the filter input. The way it is supposed to be set up is for the line from the tank to go to the top of the fuel heater/per-filter assembly. It goes from that to the lift pump through a short curved hose. It is a good idea to remove the fuel heater (looks like a hockey puck) from the assembly leaving it plumbed the same as stock. You might try to start it with a bucket of diesel and put a hose between where the curved hose goes to the lift pump and the bucket of fuel. If it starts then you have a problem in the fuel system before the lift pump or the fuel solenoid lever is not working right.

 

[hereismylife]

update...

Well After screwing with it for anouther day it finally runs I took all the lines off at the delivery valves and nothing. After that I shut the return line. I got constant pressure at lift pump. Then I cranked and crack the return line. Fuel but no start. Then Finally after cranking and checking I got some white/brown/ugy fuel stuff. After that I closed the lines and opened all the injector lines till it got the garbage out. Really nasty from sitting. After that I closed all the lines and cranked and cranked for about 20 sec. Nothing. Removed 2 lines and was getting fuel... ... hhhhhmmmmmmm... ... nothing... .

Then I tightened the lines again... . nothing just cranked... .....



HAD ENOUGH..... NEED SOME HELPEROo. Oo. Oo.



While she was cranking I hit it with 1/2 sec of parts cleaner... ... . almost... ... ... crank again... ... . 1/2 again better... ... ... almost stall and 1/2 sec... ..... running weak but running for 30 secs... .



Notice oil at turbo everywhere#@$%!... . shut down.



Turbo line shot. Got temp line and tried again. nothing... . #@$%!#@$%!



Had her crank it 1/2 shot again and runs weak like before but now it will atleast run.



Let it sit 1/2 hour and tried it again... ..... finally it will idle and trottle is there and seems to run ok... Now I will wait till tom and see if it will start nicely.



So in the end it was old fuel,water,dirt,slime that was there.



So now we will see what is next.....

 

[Woodenhead]

Right On Oo.



I hate to say it but if you had that much junk coming out of the lines at the injectors there's a good change you're going to or already have problems with the injectors or pump.

You could have clogged injector nozzles or sticking plungers and rack in injection pump. I had an old P7100 injection pump that I brought to get calibrated. The couldn't get it to move fuel, the rack was stuck and the barrel/plunger assemblies were all gummed up. Hope this is not your case, if you have throttle and smooth idle you might be OK. Let us know how it runs when you drive it.



Mike

 

[tgordon]

As I read this I woundered about that, old fuel. If you are running the ULSD or some bio in it that should do a fairly good job of cleaning out any bad/gummy/tarnish in the lines and help to get it running better.