Won't Start

[ClarkP]

Hello all. First timer and new member to the TDR, but not new to CTD. I have had a #$%^^! week. My '01 6-speed shelled out the clutch when I was 3 hours from home this weekend. However that wouldn't have been so bad if my 92 hadn't quit on me two weeks ago and this is what I need some help with. Its tough to feed cattle with a Monte Carlo! Unfortunately the fuel gauge in the 92 is broken so I use the trip meter to gauge until I can get time to fix it. Due to my lack of attention I ran out of fuel. The truck has ~140K on it. I broke all of the lines at the injectors, used the lift pump to prime the injection pump and then cranked the starter. Got fuel at the injectors on all cylinders and it is in a timed sequence. Closed the fittings and then cranked again. I would only crank for about 30-45sec and quit. Nothing. I did this breaking of the lines etc three or four times. Nothing. I did put on a new lift pump and did the series again. Nothing. It sounds like the motor is "back-firing" out of the exhaust. Do we have for come reason a timing problem in the injeciton pump or did we lose the KDP!! Any ideas would be great.

 

[Greenleaf]

Backfireing sounds like a timing thing.



I have installed a good many no. of injection pumps where the system has zero fuel. They are very easily bleed out. Sounds like another problem to me.



Generally to get one to fire with a dry fuel system all ya gots to do is prime the lift pump a few strokes, crank the engine over at WOT with all the lines loose. Then, when you see the slightest amount of fuel shoot up onto your windshiled glass, you'd secure the lines and that thing will hit and miss and simply take off!



I cannot honesly say timing is the issue, however it sounds like yoy bled the injection system five times over and above what is needed. I'd look elsewhere.



I have to wonder if something was damaged inside the pump when it ran dry??????The (static) timing will not change on it's own.



Fuel filter???? Shut-down solenoid? I don't believe the shut-down solenoid will COMPLETELY shut off ALL the fuel when it's working normally.

 

[ClarkP]

The other item that I did not mention is that I did the unthinkable and gave it a wiff of ether. It did not even gurgle.

 

[bgilbert]

How much fuel did you dump in the fuel tank? I'd install a new fuel filter filled with fuel. Unhook your grid heater, then you can hit it with as much ether as you like.

 

[Nordby]

Is the fuel you get at the injectors, with cracked lines, spurting all over the place and making a mess (thus high pressure!), or is it just there and dribbling. If not high enough pressure, it will not snap the injectors.



All ya need is timing, fuel, heat, and air to get these running. You have air. Are your grids firing - not necessary on warmer days, but will help. We'll assume you have heat. Unless you undid your pump, or your cam gear slipped, you have timing.



It's fuel somewhere is my guess, unless you respond that you are certain you have high pressure fuel and those injectors are snapping. What I would do:



- ensure the shutoff solenoid is working, you should hear it click with the key.

- sucking all the fuel from the tank could have clogged the screen in the tank with junk at the bottom, or clogged the line. Get some compressed air and blow backwards to the tank to clear it.

- might have gotten crud all the way through the line and clogged your water seperator/fuel filter -

swap it.

- a new lift pump doesn't always mean that it works. Test it somehow (ideally measure the psi between it and the injection pump). Hard to do and you have to create fittings/gauges for it - so just pull the input line on the top of the injection pump and have someone turn it over for ya. It'll make a mess, but so does cracking those injectors.

- worst but not least, you have air somewhere and once your truck unprimed it won't reprime. Pull your gas cap - less vaccuum for the lift pump to work against if there is one. Check your lines for leaks, obviously, but most air leaks don't leak fuel out, they leak air in. Check the hidden coupling between the output of the fuel/water seperator and the top of the injection pump. There is a junction back there, under the intake manifold/grid heater and back towards the block a bit that has an o-ring that will rot and leak air - then you will never prime and start. You can't see this junction, you have to feel for it or get a mirror and stand on your head.



That's all I can think of right now, but that is where I'd go!

hang in there, good luck, I want pictures of the Monte Carlo in the cow pasture!

jon

 

[1stgen4evr]

And the other possibility is that you didn't run out of fuel. Lots of variables in what you describe.



Nordby has given a good run down on trouble shooting. I would only add that it is sometimes hard to prime these trucks but if you have fuel at the injectors and it is consistent, then you need to get an spare injector and hook it up so you can see if the pump is pushing fuel enough to crack the injectors. That won't provide a bullet proof answer but it will tell you that you either don't have the system primed out completely or that you don't have enough squirt left in the pump to do what it has to do. When you KNOW that the system is primed and still no skeet, you got pump problems.



James

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

One of the tricks we've used in the shop (assuming you have access to compressed air) is to insert an air nozzle into the filler cap, wrap a couple wrags around the nozzle and run air into the tank... not too much, about 15-20psi is plenty.

Then loosen three injector lines just a touch and start cranking... . once you have good hard squirting tighten them up and put the throttle wide open... . crank and watch for white smoke out the tailpipe... that will tell you that you've got fuel reaching the cylinders... . you should have startup pretty quick after that...

Things to keep in mind... watch your starter cranking time... that baby gets hot fairly quickly and needs some cool down time between cranking sessions... have a battery charger handy to connect during your cool downs...

Ether or quikstart is risky but as long as you are not in cold weather and your SURE the manifold heaters won't kick in you can get away with a few shots to force the engine to fire.

As the guys noted above... if you are unlucky enough to have sucked up some crap from the tank then you'll need to purge the fuel line from the lift pump back..... it is possible that you sucked up some sludge or whatever from the tank.





pb... .