Wood cutters, ever run into thiswith a saw?

[Chad Sheets]

Been cutting with my 066 and have had this happen everytime. When I get about a small truck load full (toyota/S10), the chain seems to give up and quit cutting. It gets real hot (yes, I have plenty of bar oil in it at all times, and yes it is oiling) and starts blowing smoke off it from the heat. The engine still has the rpm, and the chain is still turning, only it is barely cutting.

I have tried a new chain and everything. I even let the old man cut with it today while I used his $10 John Deere saw. When we started, the Stihl was tearing the trees up. It wasnt long before it lost its edge and the Deere saw was out cutting it on the same tree??

The only thought I have on this is, the 066 is so powerful that its dulling the chain with all the rpms its turning. It gets one heck of a hole shot, but it slows down cutting half way down the track and barely makes it accross the finnish line. Any ideas?



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[illflem]

Chad, might be that your bar is shot. Is it cutting straight?When you replace the bar do the sprocket and clutch bearing at the same time. I'm not buying the power and rpms deal, long as you aren't hitting rocks and dirt a fresh chain should last half a day at least.

 

[Power Wagon]

If your chain is not correctly filed, and the teeth on the chain have an edge with a very small angle (like, razor edge), instead of a rather broad angle (like 45 degrees or so - imagine a chisel) across the top of the tooth, it will simply dull very rapidly... and if the rakers are too high, then you'll cut at first, when the teeth are very sharp, but as soon as they dull slightly (normal use), then you'll find they just don't do squat.

I don't know if these are the answers, but, they are the ones I looked for when the obvious wasn't the problem. The obvious being that you hit something in the wood (ever see the results of a ceramic insulator???) and dulled it totally, or that the chain was really loose and the teeth rocked over... or the bar worn and the teeth slanting...

how about chain speed? is the chain speed staying up? Is the clutch slipping when it gets hot?

A friend of mine bought a warranty return chainsaw from Sears. It had obviously been run, but obviously had cut almost no wood. He started it and ran it for a few moments, and then the chain bound up. I watched him puzzle over it for a few seconds and then realizing something was seriously wrong, I closely examined the chain... it was backwards on the bar, and the drive sprocket had hammered the backside of the drive teeth, making them too wide to slide through the bar... . Apparently, someone didn't look real close when they put that one together, and then of things, determined the saw itself was defective???

 

[Joe G.]

Chad,

If you can find a logger have him look at it. When I was having trouble keeping my chain sharp on my Echo I showed to my father-in-law. A few suggestions from him got it working right. Especially important is how to sharpen it.


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Joe George
Eureka, CA

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[illflem]

Guys, Chad says he's having trouble with a new chain, don't think sharpening is the problem, maybe the wood he's cutting just isn't happy about it. #ad

 

[Joe G.]

The sharping business is just an example. The point really is to find someone who makes his living with a chain saw to solve the puzzle. My father-in-law has worked with chain saws since the 40s and has forgotten more about them than I will ever know.

 

[OO]

Stop using the raker gauge and give each one 3 lashes with the flat file. When the saw starts grabbing while falling or bucking you've gone to far.

Buy a sharpening jig and set the down bubble at 10 and the bow planes at 35. Just look out for those fishermen #ad
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[Case500D]

Chad,

My dad has ran a Stihl 031 and an 032 for the past 23 years (I just help load the truck) and they are great saws. We have an 20" bar on the 032 and an 18" on the 031. He just got a 041 with an 20" bar. Awesome saws that you just can't kill. Anyway, enough of the sales pitch. We have experienced the same problem on the 032 that you are having. The bar was so wore (chain groove and front sprocket) out that the chain would not cut straight and it just generally messed up the quality of job that it did. The bar would smoke and get so hot it just about smoked us out of the woods. We replced the bar and the drive sprocket on the 032. We have always ran full chisel 3/8" (. 375") chain which is really agressive and helps a lot. Evertime we pull off a chain we flip the bar over and grease the front sprcket. It helps it wear much more evenly. Good luck and hope this helps you out a bit.

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[Sled Puller]

Did you guys know Amsoil makes a bar & chain oil? Extend your drains! Better performance! #ad

LOL!
Gene

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1997 Cummins Dodge 4x4 Bombed & Amsoiled. Amsoil Premiere Direct Jobber, Member of: NRA Business Alliance, GLTDR, WANTED: Wrecked Dodges.
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[TREEMAN]

Chad,as Bill said sounds like the bar. Pull it off & with a bar cleaning tool clean it awat from the sprocket& make sure you can see the bottom of the groove & oil holes are clear. Look down the bar & make sure the rails are parallel & not tweaked as this will bind up a chain & make sure the sprocket spins freely. Whilst the bar is off start up the saw & check that oil is coming out of the oil supply port,more oil with more trigger. IF not then the oil passage is plugged or there,s a little plastic worm gear is stripped. you can get to this by pulling the plastic cover using the star wrench. I,ve stripped 2 of those on my 066,but you,ve gotta love that saw ,its my favourite in my stihl family. Once put back together run the saw holding the tip a couple of inches away from a log & you should see oil flinging off the bar. If you dont do this already,when cutting a log just cut 3/4 of the way through then roll it over & finish the cut,i see more guys dull a chain than any other way by trying to cut all the way through a piece of wood thinking they can pull it back at the last second. Also remember you will usually find more debris to dull a chain at the base of the tree than the top so leave the dirtier cuts till last if you have a sharp chain. Good luck & safe cutting. Ian

 

[Chad Sheets]

Talked to the Stihl people. They gave me another new chain for free, told me to make 4 cuts then spray the log for a few seconds and see how much oil it throws off the bar. Said it might have a bad oil pump, if so they will take care of it.

The blade is good to go. I field strip the saw every spare chance I get and do a quick clean and lube on anything I can get my fingers on. I like all the ideas you guys have. Thanks, I am off to the property to cut some and try this thing out again.

 

[John]

Chad, a Stihl 066 should drop right through almost any wood!

After reading your original post it occured to me you had an oiling problem... either the delivery path was plugged with debris or the pump was toast. After reading your last post I guess we can strongly suspect the pump. Now you're two for two! #ad
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First the lift pump on your Dodge and now the bar oil pump on your Stihl. Personally, I believe the oil delivery path is plugged with debris and/or the oil flow adjustment is not correctly adjusted (it can fall out of adjustment). A good rule of thumb for suspected oil delivery problems is, you should have used about 90%+ of the bar oil tank capacity when the saw runs out of gas (assuming you filled both prior to cutting).

After a long day of cutting, the saw chain should be removed and all areas around the drive assembly should be thoroughly cleaned, preferably with compressed air... ditto for the entire power head. Use a bar groove tool to clean out all the debris from that area (where the drive dogs of the chain run)... you'd be surprised at how much junk gets trapped in there (further restricting oil delivery). Periodically rotating the bar (inverting it) will extend its useful life. Keeping the chain razor sharp really helps reduce stress on the operator and the saw while at the same time reducing 2-stroke gas consumption as well as increasing the service life of the saw.

I have found that a portable saw chain grinder works very well once you've learned the dynamics behind tool sharpening... the edge WILL hold up much better than with files. In addition, the rakers have to be checked for height. If they become too high (through reduced height of the saw tooth through periodic chain sharpening), you can, and will cut almost nothing!

Stihl is right, you should be able to rev the saw (max governed RPM) and make a noticeable oil stripe in front of the saw. This is described in your Stihl chainsaw owners manual.

Good luck Chad. If you want any additional help, feel free to email me... I owe ya anyway. #ad

 

[John]

..... somehow missed your post TREEMAN when I was skipping through this thread. Excellent advice. . especially about cutting through logs on the ground! I've been doing it that way for over twenty years... it's just second nature now. I have cut at least 3 cords of wood with my new Stihl 044 and still have a very sharp chain. Gotta love that!

A Super Chisel type saw chain tooth is superior to all others (IMBiasedO) for downing or bucking (either in skip-tooth or "full comp. " configurations) however, it is more prone to kickback, making it less desirable for limbing. I still use that chain to limb anyway. After you have used something long enough the quirks become second nature, in that you just work around them.

[This message has been edited by John (edited 03-23-2001). ]

 

[TREEMAN]

John ,
Imbiasedo" is that a brand of chain or a type of chain,never heard of it? Is it carbide tipped? I need to find some such chain for those nasty jobs with fence wire & such running through the trunk. Iuse Oregon full skip square ground chisel on my medium range saws & up. A great cutting chain but hard to keep an edge on sometimes. Let me know on that chain,Thanks. Ian

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[John]

Hey TREEMAN, the saw chain I referred to has different names depending on region, logger or not, how long you have actually used this type of chain (I believe it has changed names over the years) etc. The tooth has almost zero radius, thus requiring a skilled operator to keep it out of the dirt to preserve sharpness. If you can accomplish this it will out cut all other saw tooth profiles. It looks like it would be the most aggressive tooth design (and it is), and is not available in the smaller 5/16" chain sizes (if memory serves). Ian, you probably know this by some other name.

On chains, I have found Stihl saw chain to be superior to Oregon saw chain for two reasons: 1) less stretching in the new Stihl chain (thus, less frequent chain tensioning required) and, 2) the teeth stay sharper longer.

[This message has been edited by John (edited 03-23-2001). ]

 

[Crash_AF]

Hey Treeman,
IMBiasedO is:
In My Biased Opinion.

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Joe

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Joe Hinson, 93 D-350
Stock, 3in straight pipe - For now

 

[Ranger Dick]

I was lucky enough to receive saw training from the Stihl people a couple of years back. I have found their equipment top notch. Here are some things I learned. If you are cutting in soft woods, a full skip or semi skip chain is better, the concept being is that less teeth are pulled through the wood, but being softwood (eg conifers) you can take a bigger chip. for hardwoods, full comp is better, more teeth, smaller chip. If the teeth are loading up with dark resin, the chain is dull. a dull chain creats friction and heat, causing the resins in the wood to melt onto the chain. I was also told that the leading edge/point of the saw tooth is responsible for 75% of the cutting power of the tooth. look very closely to make sure the point is very sharp. Like treeman, I like a square file, chisel chain in my medium and big saws. I get my chain saw supplies from a place called Bailey's. They are a mail order place. THey really support the american worker and have great prices and customer support. their website is www.baileys-online.com. THey sell both their own line of saw chain and also oregon. They also have a line of "inject-a-sharp" carbide chain with a tungsten carbide coating that gives additional live to the chain. this is different then the chains with carbide cutters welded onto a chain tooth chassis. Hope this helps.

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by Chad Sheets:
Been cutting with my 066 and have had this happen everytime. When I get about a small truck load full (toyota/S10), the chain seems to give up and quit cutting. It gets real hot (yes, I have plenty of bar oil in it at all times, and yes it is oiling) and starts blowing smoke off it from the heat. The engine still has the rpm, and the chain is still turning, only it is barely cutting.

I have tried a new chain and everything. I even let the old man cut with it today while I used his $10 John Deere saw. When we started, the Stihl was tearing the trees up. It wasnt long before it lost its edge and the Deere saw was out cutting it on the same tree??

The only thought I have on this is, the 066 is so powerful that its dulling the chain with all the rpms its turning. It gets one heck of a hole shot, but it slows down cutting half way down the track and barely makes it accross the finnish line. Any ideas?

HAHAHAAH... just figgered out the problem. . you said "Stihl"...

Now, when you get a real saw... we can talk #ad





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ICQ 3807791 Power Wagon
www.my2kcity.com/powerwagon
Mark Koskenmaki, General Diesel Moderator

 

[Crash_AF]

Originally posted by John:
Crash_AF, TREEMAN responded to me the way I had it written in my post (above his): IMBiasedO... I wrote out biased as I wasn't sure everyone knew that one.

My bad, I thought he was asking if that was a brand of chain. Just trying to be helpful... #ad


I'll go crawl back under the truck now...

Joe

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Joe Hinson, 93 D-350
Stock, 3in straight pipe - For now

 

[zzman]

bodark, some hard wood #ad

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