Words of wisdom needed regarding: Replacement Windows

[HoleshotHolset]

Long story made incredibly short:

We need new windows for our little house.



Explanation:

The critters in the house are aluminum framed and most are single pane... yeah, and we live in Wisconsin - not a good combo. At some point a slack jawed miscreant decided to re-use the old (original?) wood jambs/sills, cover said 1/2-rotted wood up with white aluminum flashing and call it good enough... then screwed in these lovely contraptions they thought were windows. Just thinking about what lies underneath the rest of the flashing I've yet to tear off makes my head spin like the little girl from The Exorcist.



Where I grew up, if it didn't say Anderson or Pella on the sticker... it wasn't worth your time, effort or $. At least that's what I remember...

Times have changed... or so you'd think. Who else makes a good window these days?



Around here - Champion Windows (+doors, siding, awnings, patio rooms, etc. ) has a pretty good presence in the newspapers.



I got a bid coming from one contractor who makes his own vinyl windows to size with low-e glass and inert gas between the panes - but figured I might want to try a 'big box' offering for grins.



Has anyone had good/bad luck with Champion?

If not Champion, has anyone else had good luck with another 'big box' offering?



My (more expensive than last year) propane bill thanks you in advance.



Beers,



Matt

 

[JLEONARD]

Hey bud.

I replaced all 26 windows in my ex house with vinyl double panes. Easy to do once you get past the first one.



I shopped a lot before I made my decision. Prices ranged all over the place... . at the time from about $120 to $500 each. Yes there was that much difference.

I compared construction, warantee, etc. I went with a local company's product (Viking Aluminum products in New Britian, Ct) because they were as good or better than the big name brands like Pella, Harvey, and Anderson.

They were ALL custom made to size, and all fit perfectly (you need clearance anyway). And they were actually at the lower end ($150 each) of the price range.

I got them without low E or Argon because at the time (7 years ago) the extra cost was not justifyable for my situation.



So bottom line... shop hard and do your own comparison.

 

[kenny61]

For simple "stock" replacement Andersen Custom or an upgrade Pella.

If you can do it yourself don't do replacement windows take your time to pull out the whole window and put a window back in that fits. This will make it one sealed unit and give you the chance to properly insulate around the frame with minimal expanding foam. Most older houses are not insulated properly and this will stop all the drafts around the window

 

[MEby]

Check out Gorell triple pane vinyl replacement windows. They have some of the best ones money can buy and cost less than Anderson or Pella. You can order them any size you need. I put them in a customers house several years ago and after we were done the temperature in the house increased 4 degrees from where it had been in the morning without touching the thermostat. The cheaper triple pane has an R-6 compared to R-2 or R-3 on your average double pane and the higher cost ones have an R-10. It can be very cold outside and the glass is actually warm to the touch unlike most windows. If you plan on staying in your house any length of time it, would be well worth a little extra (compared to the very cheap vinyl availible) to put in good windows. I just put in several in my house and can't wait to see the difference it will make this winter.







Link: Replacement Windows - Gorell Vinyl Windows & Patio Doors

 

[daveshoe]

It is really about the installer. If the old windows are sashes with weights,there is a hollow pocket around the window that has air moving around it . Some installers stuff fiberglass in the weight pocket,but that is a partial solution. The best way to insulate this pocket is to rent an insulation blower and blow it full. On one job I did,the insulation blew in one side, travelled around the top,and out the other--showing just how easily the air was moving around the window. This method is messy,but the best I have found. At the minimum,the installer needs to caulk all the cracks that exist in the wood frame after removing the old sashes. That will at least keep the air contained in the wall cavity and not circulating around your new window. Stuffing fiberglass between the vinyl window and old frame is pretty pointless when comparing with the above methods. On vinyl windows,pay particular attention to the balances. If there is a "screw" style balance that looks in appearance like a rod that lifts the window ,stay away. These will break off the window ,and have grease inside that will slowly leak out and make a mess. You want to buy a window that has a coil spring like a tape measure. These are usually stainless steel and will not break in a few years--I have never had one break in 20 years

You mentioned Andersen and Pella before. These companies do make replacement windows and accessories that allow you to install them.

Instead of going to a big box place right away, you could go to a window supplier [even a wholsale vinyl window supplier] and ask them to give you a list of installers,or even ask them if they know of an "old guy" who pretty much works alone and takes pride in his work. Show them this post if you like, but be aware that liability issues may discourage them from recommending one person over another

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Thanks for your input, guys - great info here!



The title of this thread needs to be changed. As some of you know all too well, there is a big difference between 'replacement windows' and 'old windows that need to be replaced'. 'replacement windows' reuse the old jambs - that's not what I'm after.



The method by which I'd like to attack this is to remove everything down to the rough opening and essentially use 'new construction' type of windows... since the existing (original?) jambs are rotten (and covered with white aluminum flashing... ) - I want to get all that out of there. We need to re-side the house to match the new attached garage - so no big loss by ripping up the siding around the windows.



Last night, I had an Amish contractor stop by to take measurements. We were pulling back trim to get at the rough openings. He seemed like a very nice guy and knew a LOT about windows. Unfortunately, he didn't bring along a sample of the windows he makes. He gets the double-pane, low-e glass from some glass company (I'm assuming this glass company also does the Argon filling) and then he makes all the frames out of vinyl extrusions. The frames I want will have j-channel on the outside for a slick finish with the new siding when we get that done. He also said that in one older house he did - the owners had a 50% reduction in heating costs. I figured maybe 30% would be a big improvement... dang!



I'm curious to see what his quote looks like since the last guy we had come out earlier this year wanted nearly $7k to do the job. That sounded like a LOT of money to me for our little house.



Beers,



Matt

 

[kenny61]

price for windows alone on my house for pellas I installed em for 9 Pellas was 4 grand these are triple pane with option to put shades in between 2nd and 3rd pane

 

[Jumbo Jet]

My son and I replaced all the windows and exterior doors in his house.

The single pane aluminum windows were about 35 years old. We tried to remove most of the glass without breaking and then used a sawzall to cut the aluminum frame out.

Putting the double pane vinyl windows back in were much easier than we thought it would be. The house is wood frame with brick veneer.

Cut down on his energy bill a lot.

Pick a good window and "Just Do It!"

A good hammer and chisel helps out if you have brick.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Well - the quote came through about 2 weeks ago. Just a shade over $4600 - including labor. The quote was totally itemized and labor was only about $650. Probably not even worth my effort to do it myself at that price!

This included a custom bay window for the living room, replacing two 'side-by-each' double hung windows in the dining room with a sliding door, replacing another two 'side-by-each' double hungs in one bedroom with a picture window and two smaller double hungs... . and a bunch of double hungs for the rest of the house. (The $7k quote I got before didn't include any of the other custom stuff except the bay window for the living room, they were replacement instead of 'new construction' windows, he was going to redo the aluminum flashing on the exterior (which I didn't know at the time I could ditch!!!) AND his labor was a lot higher - so we're getting a lot more for less money with the 2nd contractor... )

He didn't have a model of the windows... but I want to check that out. Instead of doing the replacement window route - he said these will fit right into the rough openings and will have j-channel on the outside for the siding to sit right up against. Sweet.

I'll keep ya'all updated - thanks for the advice!

Beers,

Matt

 

[kenny61]

when its too cheap to believe,,,it probably is get refrences go to the houses and see the work also confirm the brand of windows. thats only abot 65 bucks to install each window divide that by 2 guys and thats only 32. 50 each out of that comes gas and insurance costs

 

[daveshoe]

How many

windows are we talking about so we know cost per window? If they have a channel built in that the siding will set against,in all probability they are "new construction" and SINGLE HUNG windows,explaining the low cost--no charge for custom set-up of sizing. New construction means that the upper sash is not operable and the windows are available in fixed sizes. It sounds like your house may have modular sized window openings that makes this option possible. I am not talking good or bad here, just be certain of what you are getting and whether it suits your lifestyle. You don't want to go outside to wash the upper sash,do you?

A new construction window is also thinner in frame thickness-- probably about 2-1/2 vs 3-1/4 for a replacement unit. Hope this helps

 

[2Rowdy]

I just got a quote last night from a contractor using traco windows. Double hung, argon gas. low e. The whole ball of wax, something about the welds in the corners. $500. 00 a window. 18 in my house.

 

[CSnyder]

when its too cheap to believe,,,it probably is get refrences go to the houses and see the work also confirm the brand of windows. thats only abot 65 bucks to install each window divide that by 2 guys and thats only 32. 50 each out of that comes gas and insurance costs

Yeah but the economy has guys bidding jobs very low in Matts area right now. I know because I have a very good friend who does carpentry work in the area. Also keep in mind that the labor wage isnt the only profit. They will also be making money on the window mark-up or maybe they fudged numbers to make it appear labor was cheap to win the job?



Matt, if you decide to do it yourself let me know and Ill drop in some weekend to help. Im in the Madison/Janesville area just about every weekend now.

 

[JLEONARD]

 something about the welds in the corners. $500. 00 a window. 18 in my house.

Welded corners? Most have them.

Keep shopping... ... like I posted there is a huge difference in cost and I'll say there is not all that much difference in quality from my experience... (no intention of starting a war on that statement though).

 

[tgordon]

FWIW the contractor diong my parents addition will not even touch a vinyl window for instalation anymore. In the past he has had so much trouble with them after they were in for a couple years. The original part of the house has Anderson in it and they are over 30 years old, so they are sticking with what works. (Also they can get the new ones to match what they already have)



As for the amish, I would get referances and inspect. There was a menenite installing fence real cheap around here, he is now gone and the waiting list to fix what he messed up in the first place is over a year long.



troy

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Well - I changed jobs (not forced into it due to getting fired, etc. ) a little over 1. 5 months ago and now make quite a bit less money... so this whole windows project is getting put on the back burner for a while. Such is life.



I'll keep ya'all updated as things progress.



Beers,



Matt - now actually WORKS for a living instead of sitting at a desk 40hrs/week.