2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Woweeeeeee!!! New clutch slave...BOMBed?

[Dbonnecarrere]

Guys, help me out here,

Went and talked to the tech who installed my new clutch and

asked him about the way the clutch feels (engages and dis-

engages about a half inch from the floorboard). I told him that I

thought that it should engage/disengage much further up on the

pedal stroke. He said that it was just the opposite. He said a new

clutch with plenty of meat on the disk engages/disengages very

close to the bottom of the downstoke of the pedal. Is this true or

not? All comments welcome. By the way, he changed out the

front seal on the xmission (NV4500) and changed the fluid (covered under extended warranty). I had amsoil 75w90 in it and

it had been shifting extremely smoothly. Now with the Mopar/syntorque in it it is not nearly as smooth, especially into

1st and reverse. New fluid or new clutch?

Thanks

 

[Andy Perreault]

Originally posted by Dbonnecarrere

I had amsoil 75w90 in it and it had been shifting extremely smoothly. Now with the Mopar/syntorque in it it is not nearly as smooth, especially into 1st and reverse. New fluid or new clutch?

Thanks

I have Amsoil 75W-90 in my NV4500, and at 90,000 miles ( the truck's a '97), it shifts great. But I'd recommend that y'all read the article on page 14 of TDR issue 33. After reading it, I wondered if I should switch back to the factory recommended lube.

However, reading the back of a bottle of Amsoil "Series 2000" 75W-90, it says:

"Recommended for all differentials (including limited slip), manual transmissions, transfer cases, transaxles, and industrial equipment calling for a GL-4, GL-5, or and MT-1 lubricant. "

I like the way my truck shifts, I haven't lost 5th gear yet, and the temperature gauge never gauge never gets over about 180, even when towing my trailer. So, unless someone can convince me otherwise, the Amsoil stays.

Andy

 

[Sled Puller]

AMSOIL IS SAFE IN THE 4500!!

Andy,

Tech services is working on an article for TDR to explain WHY AMSOIL IS SAFE TO USE IN THE 4500!





I do not understand why that auther neglected to interview anyone at Amsoil when they have thousands of Dodge guys running it.

Yet he interviewed people who do not even have a product for use in that trans, and know NOTHING about Amsoil's chemistry make-up.



Makes you wonder, doesn't it?



Gene

 

[Dbonnecarrere]

Gene, Andy and anyone else interested,

How about it? New clutch. Should it engage/disengage 1/2 to 3/4" from the floorboard or should it engage/disengage earlier in

the downstroke of the pedal. It's been about 35 years since I had

any dealings with a clutch on it's last leg, so I'm not sure on this

one. What ya'll think?

On the other topic, I had an in depth discussion with Ed Kellerman with Amsoil on the subject of the compatability of the

Series 2m 75w90 in the NV4500. He stood by Amsoil's position

that with the MT1 related additives, that the extreme pressure

additives (sulphur) would not attack the synchros in our transmissions until temperatures got above the 225f range, which

he said would be highly unlikely to achieve even under extreme

load. I plan on reinstalling the Amsoil as soon as I get the time.

I will also send a sample of virgin oil to Blackstone Labs to specifically analyze for copper sulfate for a baseline. After several

thousand miles I'll grab a sample from the transmission and have

them analyze it for full analysis including copper sulfate. He

agreed that copper sulfate would be the most prevalent indicator

of yellow metal attack from sulphur.

I have changed oil in this transmission four times in 40m miles

(yea I'm a maintnenance fanatic) twice with Syntorque and twice

with Amsoil 75w90. I can state that besides the transmission

being much smoother to shift with the Amsoil fluid, that there was

a lot less metal residue in the bottom of the sample bottle. I always catch a sample of my fluids and let them settle over a few

weeks for a visual inspection. In a four ounce sample bottle there

would be about a quarter inch of solids with the Sytorque sample

and probably about a sixteenth of an inch with the Amsoil. Is this

a high tech and exact analysis method? No, but that, coupled with

the smoother shifting with the Amsoil makes me believe that my

transmission is being lubricated better with the Amsoil. As far as

whether my sychros are being devoured by the extreme pressure

additives, time will tell. Maybe the copper sulfate analysis will give

me an indication also. But for now I'll have to stick with what I

believe to be the better product.

Thanks

 

[Sled Puller]

My old Chevys caught at the top when they were dieing.



My original Dodge caught at the floor, and quit disengaging. The pressure plate was mangled and had 3 bolts broken off. (used truck, not me!)



My second clutch just slipped under fool power, caught at half way still.



Recently, same thing happened, caught at the floor, quit disengaging, but it was the slave cyl. this time.



When the clutch is working properly, they should catch like half way, no extremes.



I keep telling those guys the Amsoil rules in the 4500, but the Zombies who believe the evening news , also seem to believe ANYTHING if it is in in print in TDR!!!!!!!!!!!



No one ever seems to question the authors credentials, do they?



Gene

 

[dan_gilson]

So, I called my local NAPA auto parts store and they gave me the i don't know what you are talking about speel. They tell me that 360-051 is a wheel cyl slave. So, back to square 1.



I do a little web searching and find http://www.napaonline.com. This is getting better or so I think...



I try the part number 360-051 as being a Napa part. No joy. I try it as a non-Napa part. No joy. I try both w/o the '-'. Bingo! non-Napa part.



slave 360051 is NAPA NCLCA61 $59. 61 - Bomb'ed

slave 360085 is NAPA NCLCA85 $48. 01



Plus shipping and would you believe a $13. 50 core charge?



Oh, http://www.napaonline.com does not like Netscape. I had to jump over to IE to get it to work.

 

[BWatson]

For anyone that has done this... did your NAPA slave have a plastic cap with two straps keeping the rod in the piston? I got the 360-051 for mine and it had these straps on it. I thought the straps were just for shipping purposes but there was a card in the box that said do not remove the straps. It doesn't look like the rod will extend far enough with the straps in place. I put a new clutch in (new pilot bearing and throwout bearing also) so while I had it all apart I put in this new slave cylinder following the directions in this thread. Now the clutch will not disengage and the peddle is dead, nothing there. So I'm guessing there is either air in the line or I need to remove the straps. Any comments? Thanks in advance guys.

 

[BIG BOB]

Did you fill the slave cylinder with fluid before you installed it? The strap will break the first time the slave cylinder is working properly. (That's what is intended to happen) If you filled the slave cylinder and attached the line before you installed the slave, you will just have to work the peddle up and down to get the air out of the line. If you didn't fill the cylinder, I would remove it, take the line off, fill the cylinder, install the line and install the cylinder. Then work the clutch pedel as stated above.

 

[BWatson]

Yeah I filled it but it doesn't seem to be sealing very well. I noticed last night that it dripped some from the around the roll-pin that's in there. I pulled the cylinder out last night and worked the rod in and out to try to bleed it but it didn't seem to work much. I hit the clutch pedal with the slave out and it popped those straps off. So I put the slave back in but it still won't disengage the clutch. It feels like there is some pedal there, at least more than before, but it is still far from being right. I started the truck up in Neutral and I can't shift into gear. When I try to shift into gear, the clutch starts to grab just a little and the truck slightly pulls forward whether I'm holding the clutch in or not. I think I am going to try to put the old slave back in tonight and see what happens. Thanks. Any other comments?

 

[JHerrlich]

When my line popped off my slave cylinder, it did the same thing. I finally worked enough air out of it to barely work. Over the next few days, all the air worked out of it and it was fine.

 

[BIG BOB]

Originally posted by BWatson

Yeah I filled it but it doesn't seem to be sealing very well. I noticed last night that it dripped some from the around the roll-pin that's in there. I pulled the cylinder out last night and worked the rod in and out to try to bleed it but it didn't seem to work much.

Did you make sure the little rubber o-ring was on the line?

 

[BWatson]

Yep, I put a new o-ring and roll pin in there when I first put it in. Last night I decided to try to work the air out of the line again before changing back to the stock slave. I pulled the slave out and just sat under my truck and worked the piston back and forth for what seemed like forever and I finally got enough of the air out of the system to disengage my clutch with the pedal. It still needs more bleeding but I'm hoping it'll do it on its own now that I can drive it. Man, why can't they put a bleed valve on these things?

The leak around the roll pin area is very small and only really seemed to leak when I was handling the cylinder and torquing the line some. I don't think it leaks while the line is in its normal position. I still think it should seal better than that though. Any suggestions? Do you think putting some gasket sealer around that area would work? Thanks again guys. I love this site!

 

[BIG BOB]

I would not put any gasket sealer on the connections. The air will work itself out in a few days. Just make sure you keep the reservoir full.

 

[BWatson]

Well is there any way to seal that connection better? I was finally able to drive the truck for about a 1/2 of a day before I got a dead pedal again and had to shift by matching rpm. I hate doing that. I got it home that night and had to go out of town so I haven't had a chance to see why i lost pedal again but I assume it's from the small leak around the connection to the slave. Frustrating!

 

[BIG BOB]

If you have the rubber gasket in place and the small dowel pin in place, it should not be leaking. Is the rubber gasket torn? or have a chip out of it from a pinch during assembly?

 

[jtisdale]

So guys, does the 360051 fit and work on the ETH 6speeds? Has anyone measured the travel of the new slave? It seems the part has jumped up about $20 since this thread started.

We measured mine the other night, and it seems to be short about 4-5 mm of travel. I need to do something soon.

Thanks, Jim

 

[ROADWARRIOR]

Jim,



Are you sure you just don't have "an empty" laying on your floor mat, which is inhibiting your clutch pedal travel? One of the last times I saw your truck, there was like $400 worth of aluminum cans in your bed and a couple down your stacks. lmao I think there might even be some video proof of this.



Dan

 

[Nordby]

The thread that won't die - thought I'd update with 2006 info:



NCLCA61 now is a napa part for a clutch cover, and is obsolete they claim. napaonline even brings this up as a clutch cover.



360051 is a United part number that still gets the slave cylinder, but for $116 list (gulp!).



I have no choice on this. My 1978 Crew 4x4 project has a clutch pedal so hard (Luk Pro Gold, new master/slave from dial-a-clutch as well) that it will rip the seat rails out. 50-70lbs easy. Getting ready to drive and just not safe to require this much pressure.



So thanks for the info here, it may help solve an otherwise difficult issue.



jon.

 

[David_VT]

Anyone else try this part recently?



I searched NAPA using 'napa part number' field and 360051. I find slave cylinder bore size 1". Looks like no master, is that correct?

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Hey David_VT, TDR oldtimer like this thread



The 360051 is the slave, the 1/2 ton spec which MikeR installed on the first post of this thread. As I posted I put one on my 2001 HO 6-speed back in 2001.



As a follow-up on my story (which I hadn't posted about on this thread) I ran the 360051 slave cylinder until I put in a new South Bend FE clutch in 2002. The slave did not work at all with the new clutch, due to inadequate stroke length (because this slave cylinder is larger diameter than the 360085 3/4 & 1 ton slave). The clutch wouldn't disengage very well and it was impossible to shift into gear from a stop.



Big Bob had had the same problem when he installed the South Bend on White Obsession (his '99 5-speed). I called Big Bob and he said to call Peter at South Bend. Peter rushed me out a new slave cylinder, which was different than my original stock slave as well as the 1/2-ton Napa unit. The quality was visibly higher, it worked MUCH better than either slave I'd had in my truck when I installed it. And get this. . . it cost me only 35 bucks.



The moral of this thread? If you need a better clutch slave, I'd give South Bend Clutch a call.



Vaughn