Yah Hoo

[BushWakr - RIP]

Wooaaa, Dfeland, easy there ... ... . I think you and tclark both make fair points. .

I'm sure that there have been some 1st Gen CTD owners who have made some good HP numbers. Whether they still are or have moved on is not a biggie... I also think that the work mark, and Piers and others have made, and are continuing to make, is also worth noting. True, "others" have not been in here daily, contributing to our progress like the regulars have, but still, it's been done by some...

I didn't personally take anything in this thread as a put down or a real flame... some good natured teasing, but that's all...

In relation to my post I simply wanted to 'assure' everyone that mark was telling like it was, and that I'd be an observer for the sake of confirmation, that's it. .

Please, both of you fella's take a breath, and go on the basis of "no harm, no foul" meant. .

Lets keep the 1st Gen record intact here, and not have any tempers or emotions take charge.



If this 'turn in the thread" is due to my teasing mark about a challenge, then I'll withdraw it fully, and keep my mouth shut rather than have any problems arise in what is the best behaved/tempered bunch on the site. .





Bob.

 

[Mgrant]

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=56916



We got a standard to uphold! Please, lets not loose sight of it!

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Thanks Mgrant,



I'd actually forgotten about that thread... . If this bit of spitballing is my doing, I feel badly about that, and apologize to anyone who may have taken it as confrontational or needing defense. .



Right now, there are darn few who get along so well, and even fewer who are actively contributing to the members progress in the 1st Gen group ..... that was my point. By that I mean actively providing, R&D, tips, tricks, results, etc. Nothing more, honest. .



Bob.

 

[Mgrant]

Yea, I thought I'd ought to throw that in there:-laf We still are the best forum out on the net, even though we:-{} now and then. We're only human, though we do own the best engines ever put in a pickup!

 

[J DeMaio]

Bushwakr:



My turbo is non-wastegated. The EGT's didn't change much, alot easier to control, The hottest it gets is 1200* with that load on it under any circumstances. I gained 10 pounds of boost, pump settings are stock. I don't know what horsepower I have but do know that my acceleration greatly improved, I gained a gear with that load on a certain hill, it was well worth the change and I'm somewhat sure that I'll keep that housing on there unless I switch out turbo's to maybe a Pier's HX 35. If I was at about 300 horsepower and EGT's kept getting hot, could I install an HX-40 rather than a Piers turbo.



How do you adjust your RPM setting? Exactly how do you measure 15 degrees on the pump advancement? I thought it was at like 1. 2mm stock and then you put them up to somewhere around 1. 8mm, am I right or not?



Last, will I get more power just by installing the injectors or will I still have to tweak on the pump for a noticable difference?



Thanks a lot!



John

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Ok John,



Let me see if I can cover this correctly for you... . If you're seeing 1200*F with an unmodified pump, and stock injectors you'll darn sure see some ugly EGT's when you make those changes/adjustments without a wastegate. Most notably at high load/WOT conditions depending on gear selected.

First the non-gated 12cm will definitely cause you some problems if you uprate your fueling, whether its via a pump tweaking or injectors. The 12cm (I have not run one) has a bit too much restriction were the exhaust enters the turbo housing.

This causes backpressure (drive pressure) to exceed boost by enough that your 'charge air' becomes too hot, even on intercooled trucks. I think even PW runs a 'gated' 12cm on his. He has been successful with his combo and maybe he could fill you in on how he has gotten his to work while towing... .

The wastegate will permit you to "dump" excess boost which you are probably aware of.



The advantage of the PDR HX35 is this, it has been custum tuned to spool faster than a regular (stock) HX35 (which is similar to our original WH1C's) and drive more air at lower temps. Basically, as I understand it, the efficiency map of the turbo is expanded/broadened, which results in acceptable drive pressures and charge air that is an acceptable temp.



The stock HX40 would be a dog on our engines. You wouldn't be able to get out of your own way, particularly at the low/mid range.

Even a modified HX40 (PDR) would be doggy in our application unless you were fueling like nascar mark, then it would be fairly decent... (still waiting for marks results on the HX40)

I have never asked Piers if our stock WH1C could be "Piersified" like the HX35 since they are so similar??? HMMMmmm... .



As for the high idle (governor), timing etc check this link to my pic gallery... .

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/user_gallery/displayalbum.php?&albumid=453



The tamper cover on the high idle screw has to be pryed off. (You can discard it once it's off). Loosen the two locknuts (10mm I think), and back the screw out about 3 turns, and drive the truck. Take it out and open it up in 1st or 2nd, watch your tach and you'll see/feel when the hard "pull" starts to drop off. That is your defuel point... . after that the engine will continue to slowly climb in RPM and max out. Your aiming for about 2950 at max WOT RPM.

You may need to do this two or three times till you get were you want to be.

If you look at the pic, it will show you that there is a line on the end of the pump body and a line on the gear housing. They should be matched up. That is factory stock timing of 1. 25mm lift.

You need to loosen off the 3 bolts at the front of the pump, and the one at the back/bottom (on a mounting bracket). It will be hard to rotate but the pump should rotate upward toward the rocker covers. You want to seperate the lines by about 1/8". That is, the mark on the pump body should be about 1/8" above the line on the gear case.

That will put you very close to 14. 5-15* advance. I know, one measurement is in MM and the other in degrees... I don't have a chart for the conversion but it is approx. 1. 45mm lift.

Here is a link from the "best tip I got... . " thread in this forum. It details the sequence for timing adjustments and is pretty comprehensive...

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=554419#post554419



Now, injectors alone will increase your HP, response, smoke and EGT's. You won't need to touch the pump to have any of that happen. Larger injectors need that timing bump by the way...

When you have new injectors in, you make pump tweaks to improve the area you need work on eg: low end response, midrange thru pullup, high end WOT. etc. Lastly you'll adjust your pump to reduce smoke at low boost conditions, based on your own preferences.



Well, I think that covers most of it... if I left anything out or if I got something wrong jump in guys... please. . I could always stand a bit of education/experience myself. .



Bob.

 

[RBurleson]

Sorry if I added to the furor... I was calling Mark out, but doing it with a smile, looking forward to the inevitable dyno sheets which precedent suggests will soon follow.



There's great information on this forum, but as always, it must be taken with a grain of salt. The tough part about any forum is sorting through all the info, distilling out the good stuff, and glossing over the bad stuff. This forum has a lot of good information -- a very high signal-to-noise ratio.



By no means is this the ONLY place where folks are tweaking CTDs... but it happens to be the best source of information I've found on the 'net for First-Genners, and I'm tickled to be here.



Randii (wishing even more people were plugged into the 'net)

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Hey don't sweat it Randii, no harm, no foul...

You're right, this is one of a number of places for info to be sure, but it is the most comprehensive, detailed site around.

It is hard to know for sure how something is being said/meant without being able to see someone. It's the body language, tone of voice etc that really conveys the meaning, and it's almost impossible to do in this medium...

I've had one or two moments myself were I had to sit back and think something thru more than once to get the intent/gist of a post... 'stuff happens', no biggie. .



Bomb on guys, and like Red Green says, "... remember we're all in this together, we're pullin for ya... . " "... . duct tape, a real man's best friend... . "



Bob.

 

[Paychk]

If I may inject a thought or two. It is very difficult to convey or perceive another's emotions through this sterile environment call a web forum. In fact for myself I've noticed that my perceptions of another's post is often colored by my own mood, good or bad. After my initial read/re-action to a particular post, when re-read at a later date I realize that a person wasn't conveying what I first thought.



Just some food for thought

 

[BCaldwell]

maybe these critters would help to give us an insite as to how to take the written comment:--) bill

 

[tclark]

Originally posted by BCaldwell

maybe these critters would help to give us an insite as to how to take the written comment:--) bill

I think your right Bill, I guess I could have put some of those smiley faces to good use. I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone with my post, I guess when Nascar Mark said that if someone is out there making lots of horsepower with the 1st gen. engines we should at least be reading about it on one of the four major forums got me to thinking about how lots of cummins tweakers aren't even on the net.

Again, sorry for any misunderstandings, , I didn't mean to raise anyones blood pressure, Defaland I hope your going to be alright. I don't think we need any more of this: #@$%!

 

[tclark]

Originally posted by BCaldwell

maybe these critters would help to give us an insite as to how to take the written comment:--) bill

I think your right Bill, I guess I could have put some of those smiley faces to good use. I certainly didn't mean to upset anyone with my post, I guess when Nascar Mark said that if someone is out there making lots of horsepower with the 1st gen. engines we should at least be reading about it on one of the four major forums got me to thinking about how lots of cummins tweakers aren't even on the net.

Again, sorry for any misunderstandings, , I didn't mean to raise anyones blood pressure, Defaland I hope your going to be alright. I don't think we need any more of this: #@$%!

 

[BCaldwell]

Great tclark I am sure Mark did not take your remarks to heart as he is a pretty cool guy. maybe when we run across someone making improvements on our 1st gen trucks that is not on line we could attempt to get them to let us post their findings or better yet get them interested in joining the rest of us on the web jm2cw bill