You Californians should quit whining!

[rich m]

if your power goes out, burn a tree-hugger!
Tie down the cat, the radar picture of the latest storm looked pretty vile.

 

[illflem]

LOS ANGELES (Reuters 1/12/01) - With the worst storm in three years lashing its shores and its two biggest utilities on the brink of bankruptcy, California had a stroke of luck on Thursday as it appeared to narrowly avert a series of statewide blackouts to conserve dwindling energy supplies.

But just an hour before the blackouts were scheduled to start at 5 p. m. PST as a last-ditch effort to avert a power grid collapse, ISO said it had found an angel.

Bonneville Power Administration (BPA), which operates federal power projects on the Columbia River in the Pacific Northwest, began shipping emergency supplies to California.

A spokeswoman for Bonneville in Portland, Ore. , said it would send about 1,000 megawatts south to California, roughly the shortfall California was desperately seeking.

To meet demand, the state's utilities have been forced to pay skyrocketing prices for wholesale electricity on the spot market but they are rapidly running out of cash and credit because they are not allowed to pass the extra costs on to consumers under a 1996 deregulation law.

You guys better break out the treadmill pretty soon.

 

[weber1048]

Wait a minute, I think that this would have been a good week to run a test on the Snake River Dams to see if they are needed. Lets see if the power about a 1000 MW's yesterday from 1100 to 1800 is really needed. This should quite all of the remove the dams idiots. We should not hear a word from California on the subject, but we know how short their memories are.
A power generator.

 

['956Wheel]

Hey Weber, Next time we come up how 'bout we get together for some of that tastey spotted owl stew! YUM #ad
#ad


"Just keep truck'in"

Your friend Mike from CA

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9535hundred

 

[weber1048]

Mike come on up, we will have Spotter Owl stew and endangered Marbled Marlott soup and Snake River Spring Chinook pate. We will have the NW Bomber's over and have a real good time. Ket us know when you will be up.

Doug

 

[HDH]

Uh, Guys, We are All Americans, Right?. So Whats Make the Difference Where the Power Comes From?. As Long as It Comes from between our own Boarders, Who Cares!

This Power Crunch is not just One Persons fault, Its a Whole Bunch of Big Wigs Fault.
I Saw this Crap Coming down pipe when I Worked for So Cal Edison Back in 1995, And I left For a More Secure Job. I Wanted to Work for So Ca Edison For the Rest Of My Life, They were a Good Company to Work For. But It Did'nt Pan Out.

Kinda Funny How the CEO of So Ca Edison (John Bryson) Became the CEO. He Went Straight From the Sitting on the PUC as a "Utilty Buster" to the CEO of the Very Company He Hated the Most!. This has all been Planned out behind Closed Doors.

This "Power Crunch" all started with our Former Governor Pete Wilson to Help out the Large Power Consumers Like Cement Company's and Such.

Anyone Who thinks they can trade AC Electricity like Stocks on a Open Market, Is a IDIOT. AC Electricity is a real time Commodity. It Can not be Stored, Wraped or Packaged. It has to Be used as it is Generated with at Least 20%Spinning Reserve on Grid at any Givin Time. But the ISO Thinks that 20% Spinning Reserve is a Waste of Money, And they Run the CA Grid at a constant 5% Spinning Reserve, So with 15% Less Spinning Reserve out there,There is more of a Chance of Loosing the whole Grid Due to Bad Weather Forcast, Inclimate weather,Power Plant Mechanical Problems and so forth. This is exactly what drives the wholesale price per KW Hour through the roof.

This Whole Electrical Deregulation is a Farse and a Disaster to the Consumer.

All You NON-CA TDR Guys. Just Wait and See if De-Reg Comes to your state, Because it will, Sooner Or Later. And when it does, You will take back your snide remarks about Kommiefornia! Then It will Be every man for himself!.

I am Looking at this www.plugpower.com for my House. Then i can take my power with me where ever i move!
Doug.

[This message has been edited by DieselRam (edited 01-13-2001). ]

[This message has been edited by DieselRam (edited 01-13-2001). ]

 

[illflem]

Doug,oh yes it can be stored,here in the NW they do it by raising the level behind the reservoirs. Right now the 200 mile long reservoir behind the Grand Coulee Dam is down about 175 feet,they have plenty of room to play around with it and store it,plus it affects the flow at every other dam downstream from it on the Columbia River.

On the other hand some people think this may be the device that saves us,but very few really know. Ginger

 

['956Wheel]

Well said dieselram, Our gov. (Fed) would like nothing more than to get "dereg" all over the U. S. , and 40 some states have it on the agenda! UNITED states... think about it.
It's all about dollars... OURS!

Weber if ya got P. O. ed my point was not to do so, but rather to let it be known that everybody has something stupid that sticks out in an otherwise good state. This is surely NOT a personal gripe ... I could give a fly'in f**k. #ad
Com on back!

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9535hundred

 

[danandamy]

I thought this was an INFORMATIVE ARTICLE on this subject.

[This message has been edited by danandme (edited 01-13-2001). ]

 

['956Wheel]

Ilflem, on stored power, CA has a "pumped storage" hydro. What they do is run the water through the turbines at peak demand times and at off hours (middle of the night) they reverse the turbine rotation and pump it back up the penstocks! It's scary when the pump it up the hill sound like the end of the world till the harmonic vibration stops. They say it's economical, I wonder? Thi plant is between Lake Castaic and Pyramid. I understand there are three mor in the world of this design. There are six units and I have seen 2 pumping, 1 on condense (regulates the power) and 3 on generation?@#%$& Don't ask me I just fix um. #ad
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9535hundred

 

[HDH]

Originally posted by illflem:
Doug,oh yes it can be stored,here in the NW they do it by raising the level behind the reservoirs. Right now the 200 mile long reservoir behind the Grand Coulee Dam is down about 175 feet,they have plenty of room to play around with it and store it,plus it affects the flow at every other dam downstream from it on the Columbia River.

On the other hand some people think this may be the device that saves us,but very few really know. Ginger

Uh, Bill, Alternating Current Can NOT Be Stored. It Has to Be Generated as it is consumed. YES, The Potential Prime Mover(water) Can Be Stored, But not the End Product,AC Power.
DC/Static electricity can be stored in Batteries and Capacitor Banks.
Doug.

 

[HDH]

Originally posted by Statland:
Ilflem, on stored power, CA has a "pumped storage" hydro. What they do is run the water through the turbines at peak demand times and at off hours (middle of the night) they reverse the turbine rotation and pump it back up the penstocks! It's scary when the pump it up the hill sound like the end of the world till the harmonic vibration stops. They say it's economical, I wonder? Thi plant is between Lake Castaic and Pyramid. I understand there are three mor in the world of this design. There are six units and I have seen 2 pumping, 1 on condense (regulates the power) and 3 on generation?@#%$& Don't ask me I just fix um. #ad
#ad

StatLand. I work not more than 70miles to north of Castaic on the some Project.
Yes they/we use Hydro Turbine Generators sometimes as Syncronous Condensers, Not to Generate power, But to Regulate or fine tune the Grids Megavars. To Either Buck or Boost the Megavars on the grid to help keep the line voltage up or down depending on the weather,inductance or capacitance. And simply put: Megavars Also help keep the grid frequency between 59. 999 to 60. 001hz. anything much lower or higher than that and the grid is byebye.

Its a Ballancing Act. LOL!
Doug.

 

['956Wheel]

Hey Doug, You seem to have an understanding of the truth of this CA mess. Yes it is de-reg that f****d us again. Why did those big wigs do it when failure has always been akin to de-reg... phone co. is just one example, there are many. Now, as to why. . $'s is the answer, as you know Edison sold there plants (most if not all) to out of state firms who have jacked the cost of power to "wealthy" CA. Private industry has an "obligation" to the big wigs at every election $$$$$$$$! Not so hard to understand! The wolf is watching the hen house!

Plant Operator... we grease monkeys often envy you guys, but always work well together. I was on loan out to Castaic P. P. for a year and it was bike racks and Harley parts for the operators! gotta take care of each other.

Mike

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9535hundred

 

[weber1048]

Statland

I'm not pi$$ed. I was just having some fun. If you are an operator Nuc or Hydro you have to have a thick skin and take it all in jest. I have worked as an operator (Nuc & Hydro) for 37 yrs. You know been there done that. So if you come up we will have pizza or a BBQ. I will take you on a tour of Coulee, I worked there in the 70's

The other Doug

 

[illflem]

Yeah Doug it was me who worked on the aqueduct. It reminded me that CA wasn't as messed up as is now. Someone had the sense to build I-5 at the same time. Besides both projects taking massive amounts of concrete the aqueduct took much more fill than it did cut,most of the fill came from the close by interstate construction,somebody was thinking much more back then than they are now about the power problem. Or maybe they weren't thinking back then,last time I drove though the area I-5 was a bumpy ride and I read in the Fresno Bee that the aqueduct leaks enough to supply a good sized city,but they were working on way to patch it up. It's no wonder you folks need more power,Porterville,the town I grew up in,had about 10k people in the 60s,about five years ago it was 60k. This is the growth in an very unappealing area of the state,I can't imagine what the growth has been like in the nice places. I try to just drive straight though CA or stay on the east side of the Sierras from Redding south now. Too many people and a lot of them look to be the kind you don't want to turn your back on.

 

['956Wheel]

Strong words Illflem... whats worse is I can't truthfully disagree. Porterville was the area to head for every summer, first it was the Kern river, when that turned to crap we went further north to the Kings now it's just a waste of time. you gotta get out of the state or way up north to see something other than diapers in the river! I remember about 6 or 8 years ago reading about the estimated 750,000 immigrants coming from the middle east... . 500,000 will be making Southern CA their home! I'm kind of stuck here, 43 years young and 15 years in with L. A. D. W. P. I figure hit the road in about 12 years! Should have left long ago, but ya get married make babies and well you know!

I tell my two kids to get out A. S. A. P. I wish someone told me. This is why you gotta have a good pull toy and trailer... take a break! #ad
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9535hundred

 

[illflem]

Statland,the Grand Coulee is the same design. It has pump/generators that fill Banks Lake which then gravity flows,with two more hydroplants on the way, to irrigate half a million acres in the Columbia Basin in southern WA. They run in reverse to generate power. The irrigation project and flood control were the reasons for building the dam,power generation was just a side benefit. The dam is so efficient that no water has gone over the spillways in over 50 years,each penstock is large enough to drive 3 school buses side by side though.
Anyone visiting Eastern WA shouldn't miss seeing the Grand Coulee,they have tours that take your deep into the bowels of the dam. In the summer nights they have the worlds largest laser light show that is projected onto the one mile face of the dam. Even kids enjoy visiting the Grand Coulee.

 

[HDH]

Originally posted by Statland:
Hey Doug, You seem to have an understanding of the truth of this CA mess. Yes it is de-reg that f****d us again. Why did those big wigs do it when failure has always been akin to de-reg... phone co. is just one example, there are many. Now, as to why. . $'s is the answer, as you know Edison sold there plants (most if not all) to out of state firms who have jacked the cost of power to "wealthy" CA. Private industry has an "obligation" to the big wigs at every election $$$$$$$$! Not so hard to understand! The wolf is watching the hen house!

Plant Operator... we grease monkeys often envy you guys, but always work well together. I was on loan out to Castaic P. P. for a year and it was bike racks and Harley parts for the operators! gotta take care of each other.

Mike

Statland, Did You Know That Illflem Helped to Build the CA AquaDuct back in the Late 60's I think.

Yeah PG&E Has Sold ALL of the Hydro and Fossil Fuel PowerPlants, But they are keeping Diablo Canyon Nuke plant.

And SCE Has Also Sold All of their Fossil Fuel Powerplants and will Keep San Onofre Nuke Plant just like PG&E. But, SCE is Keeping All Of their Hydroelctric Powerplants.

One thing I dont want to see Happen is For The State to pull a Imenate Domain Clause on these power cartel's. That would open up a can of worms. Way to Close to Socialism/Commie for me.
Doug.

 

[HDH]

Illflem, I have been thinking about the Grand Coulee Dam.
Might Be a Place to Go to. The Other TDR Doug Out there Sent me some info a while back... .
Doug.