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You Do Need 4" Exhaust

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I keep reading where members are suggesting the Mighty Cummins Turbo Diesel doesn't need 4" exhaust, and 3" is good up to 350 hp.

Also that factory air filters are ok for modified engines.

These statements are a Big mistake!



Here are the facts.

We took a completely stock 98. 5 24 valve 3500 quad cab dually 4x4 7400 lbs.

Added a set of gauges and set out to do some testing.

Near my shop exists the Dream test hill, 1 mile long flat (Non Rolling) 9% grade.



We put out markers 4 total so we could track where we picked up power i. e. low end, mid range, top end.



Made 3 runs stock and averaged the numbers.

Then made 3 runs with each modification again averaging the numbers.



The K&N air filter in the stock air box was worth 1/2 lb. boost, 25 degrees drop in EGT, and 1 mph faster from the second marker on.



The 4" exhaust was worth an additional 5 mph at the second and third markers and 3 mph on the top end, 75 degree drop in EGT, 2. 5 lbs. boost, and achieved top speed in 2/3 the distance.



We also did 0 to full boost testing and to get more accurate results it was necessary to do 10 runs stock and 10 runs with the 4" exhaust.



Stock exhaust with K&N; the boost went from 0-18 lbs in an average 3. 2 seconds.



With 4" exhaust and K&N; the boost went from 0-21 lbs. boost in an average of 2. 5 seconds.



An improvement of . 7 seconds and at 3 lbs. higher.



We did the math and came up with a 30 hp increase to the rear wheels.



All my customers report better fuel economy, more pulling power, less smoke, quicker turbo response, higer average boost, faster cool down, Plus it sounds awesome!!!!!



Fact! a 3" pipe can only support 200-250 HP



That is if the pipe is mandrel bent, 2000 and up Dodges have compression bent down pipes, this drops the pipe size down by 10-15%.



Any time you modify an engine, take care of the support systems first then add power.



Air flow, fuel supply, then fueling increase.



With out the support systems you will never achieve full potential.
 
have you done any Flow Bench testing of different exhaust systems?



did you know something as small as tailpipe position and angle can improve flow?
 
4" Exhaust

Hi Ted,

You are right on target. 4" flows right at 1000 cfm and 3" flows about 350 cfm. There is more improvement than you realize. The turbo spools faster, lower exhaust temps, more power and so on. It is worth the price :D . Sam
 
So Ted. Maybe a bit of advice for me. .



I'm changing my exhaust system soon. (it's a suprise! :D )



BUT, right now, I have the stock turbo, and the stock downpipe (3"). BUT, Right after the downpie levels off I have a 3" pipe split to make a "Y" Pipe for Dual 3" pipes. Right after the down pipe is where the "Y" Pipe is that split's into two Mandrel Bent, Aluminized 3" pipes that exit right after the QC Doors with 3. 5 Tips. No muffler, No Resonator.



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Does this setup flow as good, Or Better than a typical 4" exhaust?

I know two 3" pipes doesn't equal the flow of a 6" pipe, But I am not sure what it flows like.



Thanks for any info anybody can provide on this.

MerrickNJr
 
One extra thing about my truck.



A PE COMP, on 5/5, everyday, and DD1's.

Boost is able to go over 35Lbs (+/- 3#) in 5th gear, But I *I* Feel the turbo is making "HOT" boost at 35+ Pounds,, time for a bigger turbo,, Need mo $$.



MerrickNJr
 
Who is this kid????

Merrick,

Haven't seen you around in a while. A suprise?:rolleyes: I'm getting gauges done this month (December)... finally:D



Andrew
 
I also would like to no if the muffler/resonater were removed, if any performance gains would be noticeable for a stock truck and exhaust... Just cant afford a 4" system Yet... Any ideas Ted?:D
 
TxDieselKid, I'll be around a little more for a little while,, I was very busy for a while, but I have a bit of time on my hands now,, not to mention a little bit of money :D :D

It's a suprise. :D



MerrickNJr



EDIT: Maybe I can help ya with your gauges sometime. I got a speeding ticket in San Antonio the other day,, actualy, Last Sunday. I'll post a story. Was a medical emergency kinda thing,, My cousin tried to commit suicide, so I was in a bit of a hurry, 75 in a 65.
 
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there just like jahova witnesses, you never see only one of them....

By the way... how many of these "you need..... " did you post? I think I've counted 4 so far. Is that 1 for every inch?:D Just post on inf the "Products/Accories" forum.



AJB
 
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RCpilot, give Jerry Jardine a call. 800-934-3569



his system is only $435+/- and can knock-dead the competition anyday.
 
MCummings,



Nice system, but still 3" same as straight pipe.



Two 3" pipes don't flow like a 6" pipe no time to do the math right now but I think it comes out more like 4 something in area.



Txdieselkid, I posted in 3 areas because not everyone visits all.

Sorry if I upset you.
 
the 350HP comment has been taken out of context here a little bit.



the original point Joe D. was trying to make was that for the $550 dollars you could spend for exhaust, that nets you IN-CONJUNCTION WITH A ($60) K&N filter . 7 of a second quicker spoolup and 3lbs of boost. and 75degrees off EGT's



you could buy something that could net you more like 75-100HP and alot more than 5MPH up a hill. :D



THEN if egt's become a problem, get exhaust. keep in mind your now at about 315-335 FLYWHEEL HP (w/5spd manual truck)
 
Originally posted by MCummings

Does this setup flow as good or better than a typical 4" exhaust? I know two 3" pipes doesn't equal the flow of a 6" pipe, But I am not sure what it flows like.



Thanks for any info anybody can provide on this.




Cross sectional flow areas are as follows:



3" pipe - 7. 069 square inches

4" pipe - 12. 566 square inches

2 each 3" pipes - 14. 138 square inches

5" pipe - 19. 635 square inches

6" pipe - 28. 274 square inches



Rusty
 
Mcummins, with 2 pipes each will carry less volume and the 2 pipes will have less backpressure than a single would.



what to concentrate on is you adapters. anytime you go from small to larger diameter it creates a scavenging affect. this actually creates velocity and can cause a negative pressure (vacuum) effect.



I would recommend you go to 4" right out of the turbo, then the transition point for your 2, 3" pipes should be as soon as the down pipe straightens out.



this should result a pretty good flowing system. IMO
 
I think it's very cool Ted tested turbo spoolup time. With all the talk of quicker spoolup, I don't remember anyone actually measuring this worthy component. Now we have proof :)



Guess I better do something about that 3" pipe I am running with my DD2s and CPC box, LOL . I was at 323hp BEFORE the CPC :eek:



Vaughn
 
Ted why are you saying that we all "need" a 4"? not everyone needs one. The posts from the Diesel Freak are in the Products and Sccessory forum where this thread should be !
 
Thank You Ted for your efforts. This info is very helpful, and interesting.



Like Vaughn says, spool-up time is important, especially w/ a 6 sp.
 
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