You should read this

[DRR-24V]

Hey Merle,

Do you think it may be a CLUE when a gal has $148,000 dollars on her and a trained Dope Sniffing Dog alerts on her? Give me a break. ! They can confiscate all the Dope Dealers money as far as I care.

 

[Bigsaint]

WOW, alot of good info on both sides of the fence! Here's my take, after doing it for 14 years now...





EMDDIESEL, good post, I've seen this one before and there is alot of truth in what the Trpr. writes. Many have this conception that all cops are overweight and lazy, eatting countless doughnuts while on duty. We have a Dunkin Doughnuts in our town and whenever I stop by for a coffee, all of once per tour, I see the snickers on the faces of many as they think that I'm loading up. Not nearly the fact, my waist size is the same as it was 14 years ago and I work out regularly.



Interupt my meal break... first off, we don't have a set meal break, it's get it when you can, which usually amounts to either eating dinner in 3 or 4 seperate sittings, in between calls, or eating it on the run. I'm not complaining here, just pointing out some facts. I am only human, and still need to eat once in awhile, just like everyone else.



As a Field Training Officer, I try to instill to the recruits that it is better to start out low, i. e. , be polite and respectful at the intitial contact, no matter if it's a M. V. stop, domestic dispute, etc. , let the civilian raise the level of conflict, not the officer. Most times, there are always the exceptions, kindness will be met with kindness. An attitude will be met with an attitude. I try to instill in our recruits that they should be firm but fair, which usually works to the benefit of both the officer and the civilian.



M. V. stops, the discussion here on the TDR usually revolves in some manner on being stopped and issued a summons. Here's a few hints to help you to remain summons free after you have been stopped... .



1) Be honest. If your stopped for doing 55 MPH in a 35 MPH zone and the cop asks if you know why I stopped you, just say yes, I was going too fast and I apologize as I was late for work, late to pick up the kids, etc. A arguement at this point will yield you nothing less than a summons for the violation.

2) Don't be offended if the cop shines his spotlight in your rearview mirrow, WE ARE TAUGHT TO DO THIS. Whether the officer has take down lights on or not, one of the keys to officer safety is to illuminate the vehicle and it's passengers. This is not done to humilate or offend.

3) If the cop gives you a attitude at the start and with no provocation(very unprofessional, but I've seen it done by many new officers that were not trained properly) return the attitude with kindness and respect. At this point you have more control than the officer and he/she maybe taken back a step and hopefully will re-evaluate the situation. It's all about people skills, I have been in countless situations where the 'suspect' intially gave me a attitude without provocation and I was able to diffuse the event by simply showing some compassion and understanding.



In today's society, very few take responsability for their actions. I doubt anyone sees this more than the Police. If you did wrong, just admit it. It may just get you out of that ticket. If you didn't do wrong and are issued a summons, fight it in court, not on the street as you will surely loose there.



Scott W.

 

[Max340]

EMD, it is very relevant where the editorial came from. Who wrote it? What is their intent? Where did they get their facts in order to form their opinion? If its true that the officer never existed, why lie to close the essay? If this guy was so concious of the pitfalls of a days duty, why is he now dead?



If you want to believe something, shouldn't you ask the pertinent questions to find out where the facts/opinion came from? Does it matter if its media or an unknown source?



Big Saint, Why would an officer ask if the driver knew why he was stopped? Whats the point? Say yes, and you admit guilt, say no and the officer thinks you are lying. Its a pure catch-22, and in my opinion is an insult to the motorists intelligence. I had a cop pull me over while I was doing 32 in a 35mph zone, he asked me the same question. I had no idea. He immediately told me I was lying, and I had to know what I had done. Turns out, nearly five blocks and three red lights prior, he got a glimpse of my car (he was up a side street with two large buildings on either side limiting him to seeing about 40feet of my travel) and felt I was making too much noise, and cited me for "unsafe speed", which means he did not have to clock me. End result? He never showed for the hearing. Guess it wasn't such a good charge after all.



Illuminating the drivers face via the rear view mirror is unacceptable. Why? First, it immediately offends the occupant, not just me, but anyone reacts badly with a light shined in his/her face. Secondly, it shows NOTHING of the interior, and certainly nothing of the interior below window sill level. So I have to ask, what is the net effect of doing this? Ticking off the driver doesn't seem productive to me. Third, the take down lights show far more of the interior than the spotlight mounted on the A pillar.



In regard to attitude, I say very little in a traffic stop unless its clear the officer is already of poor attitude, and will cite me no matter how nice I am. If I figure its a bogus stop, I will ask questions about the situation, I feel thats my right in order to defend myself. Turns out, the last time I asked a very key question, and the cop LOST because of that same question on the stand, since I was able to predict his response and build one part of my defense around it.



I agree, fighting the summons in court is the best venue. However, it seems very unfair to me that:



1) If the cop was wrong, the citizen is not compensated for his losses, attorney fees if any, time, and possible damage to reputation, depending on individual.



2) The cop is not held responsible for a bad citation.



3) The system is set up to be easy for the cop to show, and he can opt not to as he sees fit and nothing is done.



4) The system is set up so it is hard for the citizen to show, and he is charged extra if he does not show.



5) On appeal of a hearing in this state, a person loses the appeal fee, even when WINNING the case.



Is it any wonder the guy on the street wants to keep it there?

 

[EMDDIESEL]

The spotlight deal is not only to light up the interior, its also so YOU cant see the officer walking up and therefore wont be able to possibly shoot at him (Or her). I have been pulled over MANY times and i have always had the spotlight shined in my mirror. No big deal, DONT LOOK AT THE MIRROR, problem solved. I dont get "Ticked off". I know that he has no clue who i am or what weapon i may have, i think police have every right to do whatever they can to protect themselves when walking up to a vehicle late at night.

I have my hands on the steering wheel where he can see them and if i happen to be carrying a pistol at the time, i immediatlety inform them "Sir (Or Maam) i just want to let you know that i am carrying a licensed handgun and it is located on my right side under my shirt". I was pulled over about 3 months ago at about 1am for speeding (37 in a 25) and did exactly as i mentioned above. I then preceeded to hand him my Drivers License and pistol permit and which time he thanked me for letting him know and then let me go, no ticket.

I have never gotten a ticket i did not deserve, and i have been pulled over by alot of cops with an "Attitude". The simplest way i learned to deal with it is, no matter what, be nice, no matter how rude he is, be nice and answer everything calmly with "yes sir, no sir". If you do feel the ticket was unfair, fight it in court, not on the side of the road, you WONT win on the side of the road.

I usually get the "Do you know whay i stopped you?" bit and if i really do know, i will say, "Becasue i was speeding" and if i really dont know, i will say "No Sir, i dont" i have never been called a liar, i have been harrassed. Maybe its just where you live. In my 11 years of driving, i have been pulled over id say almost 40 times. I have 3 speeding tickets on my lisence and 1 red light ticket. I have gotten many other tickets, but all of them have been dismissed. I plead not guilty, go to court, and he either never shows up and its dismissed, or i see the officer outside the court and he says how about we drop it to a seatbelt, or make it only 9 miles over the speed limit instead. Easy enough, pay the fine, no insurance increase, no points. Works for me. However i drive, i know that if i choose to speed, i am ready to accept the consequences of my actions.

I cant sit here and badmouth cops, sorry, i have too much respect for the good ones who do a difficult job for not much money or respect.

If you dislike cops so much and hate how you are treated when you get pulled over, why dont you just obey every law and never speed and you will never have to deal with a cop again. Isnt that easy?

 

[merryman]

Bigsaints post was right on.

Max, how can one guy have so many contacts with police officers???

I am 67 years old and I travel a lot; couple trips coast to coast, trip to Alaska, Montana to hunt in the fall, Az, each winter, Long Beach about twice per year. My 15 month old truck has 29K miles and we use my wifes car part of the time; we often take her Buick to town and for us town is 55 miles away, requiring that we pass through several police jurisdictions,so, no I am not known in this area. The county where I served on the bench is 200 miles away. No officers over here know me. I say this to show I am out on the highway some, and my wife is allways on me to slow down; I commonly drive 10-15 miles over posted speed. I have had fewer than 6 stops since I started driving and I bought my first car in 1950. Of those 6 stops exactly 2 resulted in citations.

So I wonder, unless you drive in a manner to really envite police attention, how does someone of your years of driving attract so many citations??



You are dead wrong on many points I have been just letting slide, but have to comment on.



The idea that Judges are someway "in on" helping the cops with speed traps (what the heck is a speed trap? There do appear to be a few small towns with abrupt speed reductions that might sneak up on the unobservent, but in running all over this nation, I personally have not been sneaked up on by one. ) is just plain silly; Judges are citizens like everyone else and would be more prone than other citizens to "blow the whistly" on any apparent misconduct, simply because it is so easy for us to do so. When i would pick up the phone and call a chief of police, a sheriff or the director of the Oregon State Police, I would be put right through and would certainly be listened too. One the few occasions when I felt it appropriate to do so something was done about it---from a chewing out to, in two cases, eventual dismissal from the Oregon State Police.

In one incident where I felt a neighboring city officer treated some teenagers rudely and inappropriatly, a call to his chief resulted in the officer comming in to appologize to me and a nice letter from the parents of the teenage driver, indicated he had called upon them to appologize also. These few incidents are from litterally many situations per week that I would deal with as trial, or hearings on bail, forfieture hearing etc. From talking to many other Judges, not only in my area, but also at the National College for Trial Judges in Nevada, it seems to be the same pattern nationally.



You also say the system is set up to make it easy for the officer; those officers working nights who have to get up in the middle of their sleep time to show up for court might disagree with that. Also, in most departments I have delt with (a trial judge deals with all the departments in the county involved on a regular basis, and other jurisdictions commonly), missing a court appearence is not good, and it will take only a couple to start costing the officer money, or other disciplinary action.

It would certainly get a complaint from the judge to the head of that agency if it happened more than rarely, and that would very likely result in discipline.

On the other hand, it was the usual to have around a quarter of the cited persons fail to show. Some courts do try to schedule several citations for the same officer for the same time, knowing that if enough time is allocated for one hearing or trial and there are three or four cases scheduled, at least one defendant will show so that the time is not entirely wasted. Whether it was in traffic court in my early years, or felony cases in later years, I ALLWAYS scheduled at least 3 or 4 times the number of cases we could hear, because it never failed that most defendants either did not show, or at the last minute decided to plead guilty. If couts did not do that, the judges and staff would spend half their time just sitting around. And contrary to what some think of public employees, that is the hardest way to spend a day. Far easier to be running hard all day and be surprised when the clock said its time to close shop for the day.

This failure to show was especially common in the forfieture type cases. If the police or some governmental agency did not have the money, the car or what ever it was that was the subject of the forfieture, we would all be amazed it the defendant showed.

I kept waiting for one where the defendant (who had naturally claimed it was legit money for a hundred reasons) to show and it actually appear that it may be legit money. Never did see that happen.



Remember, when they talk about forfieture before trial, that is a mistatement. All we are talking about is who gets to hold the money or what ever between arrest at trial or hearing. ; There is ALLWAYS the right to a trail or forfieture hearing before there can be a forfieture. What the opponents of forfieture want is not a hearing before forfieture, but rather the opportunity to dispose of, hide or otherwise put the item in question beyond the reach of the police by the time trial or hearing time comes.



Well, way to long, but too many off the wall comments to ignore.



Vaughn

 

[Sled Puller]

Spotlight? POWER MIRROR BABY! Right back at ya!





Never break a law?

They would pull you over for"reasonable suspicion" "Your Honor, the defendant was obeying all the laws so we thought he was hideing something. "







What is a speed trap???



Come to Pa, our finest Officers will educate you on that.

 

[EMDDIESEL]

MGM wrote: "Spotlight? POWER MIRROR BABY! Right back at ya!"



And you wonder why the cops are rude to you?. And as i said, i have NEVER been pulled over for no reason. Of the 6 vehicles i have personally owned, i have accumulated WELL over 500,000 miles (not to mention how many company vehicles i have ran miles on) and NOT ONCE was i ever pulled over for no reason. It was ALWAYS due to me breaking the law.



And what is a speed trap to you? Bottom line, however they got your speed: Radar, Vascar, Laser, Pacing, clocking, etc, And if they were hiding in a tree, bush or in a helicopter, if you were speeding, your in the wrong, thats it.

Its a "Trap" because they caught you? what kind of logic is that. Your trying to justify your breaking the law by saying they "Trapped" you? Give me a break, your either speeding, or you not

 

[Sled Puller]

Good point. Maybe we should hire more coppers and have them hide in trees around the neighborhood catching people with illegal fireworks and such. Or maybe making sure noone is having sex without a condom.





Easy money, making their quota's no honor in that.



Speed trap,=hiding 25 signs behind bushes in a 35 zone, when there is NO reason for it to be 25. etc. ,etc,. etc. !!!!!!!!!

 

[Bigsaint]

Looks like a loosing battle here. If the spot light or the question of why you were stopped aggravates you, then go right ahead and say want you want, take your summons and do as you wish. I was trying to help y'all understand the way it works and ways around getting a summons, but do as you wish and take what you get.



Scott W.

 

[Deezul1]

I am fortunate to have 4 cops as personal friends and a nicer bunch of guys you cant find, they also do not like bad ass cops as it makes their job harder. Most cops are just working guys like the rest of us and have to answer to the boss too even when they dont like the task at hand. The job they have to do is something most of us just couldnt handle and its really hard on the families. If anyone has had multiple bad experiences with cops and in different cities they might rethink their own attitude and life might just get easier.

 

[Max340]

EMD, the Spot light cannot light up the interior when shined in the mirror. Second, the mirror is typically aimed to allow easy sight by the driver. Change the angle of normal lights and the spot light shines in the face of the driver. Its nto a matter of not looking, at that range and angle, its impossible to not have the bright light directly i nthe face. I'll ask again, is this a good way to make friends?



I too make sure my hands are visible (which IS NOT helped by the light i nthe mirror, since my hands aren't on my face) and on the wheel. I tell the officer where the paperwork is in the car so he knows hwere I will be reaching.



It seems you get pulled over far more than I do. Interesting.



As to hating cops, I have made it clear I do not, and that I feel the rotten apples are fewer than the good guys.



Merryman, its easy to know so many cops, its a small town.



As to how some one of my age drive to attract so many citations, ask EMD, he seems to meet the cops for business of that sort far more often than I. I doubt I've been pulled over 20 times in 18 years of driving.



As to inviting them, I guess maybe you never had a car with performance that made it attract attention while driving slowly. I have. Its a PITA, but I like my car and my freedom to drive what I wish. I had one cop tell me I had to get mufflers, because my "old ones" were worn out. Really? Got a legal method of proving that? And would ya like to test it on my NEW mufflers? Its harassment, but hey, there ARE bad apples.



>>The idea that Judges are someway "in on" helping the cops with speed traps is just plain silly; <<



Yup, MGM knows EXACTLY what I am talking about. I can give ya a couple of examples.



1) Local magistrate goes out and WATCHES cops operate speed detection equipment, and decides that these methods are FAIL PROOF. We had one do that with VASCAR. VASCAR is as prone to human error as a stop watch. Why? because thats what it IS, with a distance calculator built in. It takes the officers eyesight to operate and a toggle switch that can be activated late, early, or on time. One local department decided a set of stipes on the road 25 feet apart was good enough and the magistrate found all clocked and cited in it guilty, because it was VASCAR, after all. This was in a 25mph zone. A car travels 36 feet a second at that speed. Whats the chances of a cop being able to split milliseconds to turn on and off the VASCAR unit AT THE LEGAL speed, let alone accurately clock someone going too fast? Well, Needless to say, that Magistrate is OUT of a job now. Thankfully we VOTE for them around here.



2) Local town decides to clock traffic leaving town. They decide to use RADAR. In Pa, RADAR can only be operated by a state trooper. So they put the local cop in the troopers car, and the trooper clocks and the local writes. Imagine the magistrates surprise when I take my case before her and PROVE (yeah, prove, and in the process, the trooper AGREES with me "yeah, I'd say its a quarter mile, easy") that the local cop is a 1320 feet OUTSIDE his jurisdiction? Thats fine if he is chasing, but when he is not even clocking, and he is not a necessary part of the operation, AND he is SITTING waiting, thats ENTRAPMENT pure and simple.



>>You also say the system is set up to make it easy for the officer; those officers working nights who have to get up in the middle of their sleep time to show up for court might disagree with that. <<



In PA, the officers schedule is a rotating shift and he is scheduled to work at the time of the hearing or trial. The SYSTEM IS set up to accomodate the officer. I had one hearing cancelled because the officer couldn't make it in, it snowed. Funny, the Magistrate showed, and he has the SAME EXACT truck, a mid 90's Dakota 4wd, as the officer in question. I told the magistrate that was alame excuse, that both he and I had showed, it was time to do business. He admitted it was lame, and said if he had not already called the officer to tell him it was ok, he would have proceeded.



In that same case on appeal, the DA scheduled a bunch of incarerated yahoos ahead of me, delaying my trial from 830 AM to 1130. While it WAS interesting, it is clear that these guys would show up. They were escorted by the Sheriff's department from the jail. But the private citizen, on trial for a simple traffic case is inconvenienced by the system. And yeah, I was found not guilty.



Now, you can tell me the system is not what I think, and maybe YOUR system wasn't, due to your strict management, but the system here in PA IS what I think, and thats too bad. So I am NOT dead wrong.



MGM, you got it, I used the power mirror to good effect that night.



And yeah, reasonable suspicion is a vague term at best. I got a ticket from one cop for unsafe speed that the line of cross

examination went like this:



Was the defendant speeding? "No"

Was he stopping at all stop signs? "Yes"

Was he sliding on the ice? "No"

Was he able to stop within the scope of his headlights? "Yes"

How was his speed unsafe? "I don't know"

Why did you pull him over? "Um..... "

Your honor, I move that we dismiss the charges because no laws appear to have been broken.



Yeah, it ACTUALLY HAPPENED. Reasonable suspicion... . HAHAHAHA. Lets arrest everyone, because at some point, we ALL break a law. At least, I suspect so... ... .



A speed trap is an area where traffic studies have been done, and the 80th percentile speed (the speed at which 80% of the cars are going slower) is well over the posted limit and NO reason for NOT raising the limit has been found, yet the limit remains too low for "economic" reasons.



A speed trap is a clocking device being used improperly and citations being handed out on that flawed information.



A speed trap is an economically driven campaign to hand out citations where its clear the planning and tactics are illegal.



MGM, I am sure you have seen the large blue signs with the trooper in sillouhette (sp?) aiming the radar gun and the caption "RADAR, for YOUR PROTECTION" Hmmm..... And I thought condoms were the hot item. Here, all ya have to do is irradiate yer gonads and it renders em sterile. Does this mean that state troopers are sterilizing themselves so they can pull ya over and... . nope, I'll stop there.



They'll get ya at the drive through too..... just ask Joe Pesci (sp?)

 

[The patriot]

When I was an owner operator, getting pulled over was almost a daily occurance. I'd have to say 99. 5% of the time, I treated the officer(usually state police) with respect, and was treated in the same manner. We all have bad days.

I have had just a few stops that were met with an additude form the officer. These were mostly "locals", and like Scott mentioned, I dont feel they were properly trained, or posessed the maturity, and basic people skills needed to preform a job in wich you must interreact with other humans. Barney Fifes!!!

Of all the tickets I got, I'd have to say I "earned" well over 95% of them. I only got one or two that I felt were bogus.

When I get pulled over, I always place my hands on the wheel in a 10-2 position until the officer is at the window, and asks for my credentials.

My pet peeve is the "sobriety check". I do not drink, and when I get pulled over in a manner that makes me think of old footage of "Checkpoint Charley", I'm OK until they ask "Where are you going". That's where the trouble begins. I answer usually something like "To get blind drunk officer", or "That's not your business". This dont go over well.

Eric

 

[Murle]

Originally posted by Don Rogers

Hey Merle,

Do you think it may be a CLUE when a gal has $148,000 dollars on her and a trained Dope Sniffing Dog alerts on her? Give me a break. ! They can confiscate all the Dope Dealers money as far as I care.

Don, Take the money out of your wallet and take it to a dope sniffing dog and he will point on it. All the money out there has been around some dope at some time. Been there and done that. Ask any officer at your local bank. They will tell you the same. Besides when did it become illegal to carry a large sum of money with you????? And what is a large sum of money???? Is 20. 00 a lot of money? Or is 100,000 a large sum of money. Ask a bum or ask Bill Gates. I think you will get 2 different answers.



The aritcal that I posted came from http://www.calnra.org/



A good place to keep up with your firearms rights and problems.

 

[Bigsaint]

I'll ask again, is this a good way to make friends?

You seem to be missing one point Max, I'm not stopping you to make a new friend. You are being stopped for a violation of some sort or another. Not everyone that we stop is a nice person on their way home from church. The spot light is all about officer safety, nothing more. It serves two purposes, 1) to help to illuminate the driver and it's occupants, 2) to keep you from seeing which side of your vehicle I am approaching. It is not done to harass or embarass, it's done to help to ensure that I get to go home at the end of the tour.



Scott W.

 

[DRR-24V]

Murle,

I am wasting my time with this reply. It's my last. I spent 23 years as a CHP Officer here in CA. (Working the Road) I can only feel sorry for someone that believes everything they read in the papers. I am a gunsmith and I belong to CRPA and still don't believe everything they say. You have the right to believe anything you want.

 

[Murle]

Originally posted by Don Rogers

Murle,

I am wasting my time with this reply. It's my last. I spent 23 years as a CHP Officer here in CA. (Working the Road) I can only feel sorry for someone that believes everything they read in the papers. I am a gunsmith and I belong to CRPA and still don't believe everything they say. You have the right to believe anything you want.

Well what ever, Don, but you still have not answered my question. When has it been illegal to have a large sum of money and what is a large sum of money??? Also where is your gunsmith shop? might be able to do some parts swaping. The way things are going in Kalifornia ya'll will only have rocks to throw for protection.

 

[EMDDIESEL]

This arguement has gone on long enough. I will end it with this:



First to Max, if you INSIST that a spotlight does not light up the interior, then how is it shining in your face?, arent YOU in the INTERIOR?. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to know that if its shining in your face, its illuminating YOU, which is the idea.



Second, why do i get pulled over alot? I stated that clearly in my last post, i CHOOSE to drive fast, and i have owned alot of sportscars, Trans am with headers and flowmasters, Impala SS with the Callaway package and dark tint, headers and flowmasters, Chevy Tahoe with dark tint and exhaust. These cars are cop magnets, i know that. And if i floor the car with my loud A** exhaust at 3 am in a residential neighboorhood and get pulled over, i dont consider the cop to be "Harrassing" me.

But i have NEVER been pulled over for doing nothing. It was always me driving too fast or accelerating too fast which when you have a loud exhaust, makes it easy to pick you out. If i drive like an idiot and get pulled over, its MY fault. Nobody elses. The last time i got pulled over i was in my Ram and was given a warning ticket. I do have alot of run ins with the police, i am being careless sometimes and the police are doing there jobs. So yes, i do have alot of "Buissness" with the police. If i ever get tired of getting pulled over, all i have to do is SLOW DOWN, problem solved.

Your excuse that just slowing down wont work and that they will still pull you over for "reasonable suspicion" is a cop out (No pun intended). Drive you truck, obey the laws to the letter, have your speedometer calibrated every year, put a quiet muffler on your truck and live your life. And if by chance you do get pulled over for no reason with a spotlight in your face, oh well. there should be more important things to worry about then that (Like you lift pump failing).

Drive safely!,

 

[SLVRBLT]

Bigsaint-

No, it's not a loosing battle because there are many of us out here who agree with you. I haven't been stopped all that many times in my 40 yrs. of driving, but can attest that the best attitude to display is one of courtesy and honesty. Yes, I have had a bad experience once with some local law enforcement, but courtesy, on my part, diffused the situation. Two officers repeatedly tried to antagonize me, but courtesy is hard to defeat. I called the local mayor and chief of police the next day to report the officers attitude and language. Evidently, there were enough complaints against them and they were fired about 2 months later.



Other than that occurence, I have never been treated with nothing but courtesy and respect by cops. Cops are people too and when you harda$$ them, they're not going to go lightly on you. I have even been complimented by officers for my attitude, honesty and courtesy. I can't recall ever being stopped when I had not broken the law. Yes, I do drive over the speed limit, but do so knowing that it may cost me. "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. " If I am ever ticketed and believe it was in error, I'll go to court and have my day.



As far as the comments about lights in the mirror or in one's eyes at night, I certainly wouldn't want to walk up on a car at 2:00 am without using all the tools I had available to me. We have had more than one State Trooper killed while making routine traffic stops and I'm sure their families could offer an opinion about tactics.



I would say that was my $. 02 worth, but with inflation, I guess it's up to about $. 12 now.



Dave

 

[Max340]

Originally posted by Bigsaint





You seem to be missing one point Max, I'm not stopping you to make a new friend. You are being stopped for a violation of some sort or another. Not everyone that we stop is a nice person on their way home from church. The spot light is all about officer safety, nothing more. It serves two purposes, 1) to help to illuminate the driver and it's occupants, 2) to keep you from seeing which side of your vehicle I am approaching. It is not done to harass or embarass, it's done to help to ensure that I get to go home at the end of the tour.



Scott W.

And you too seem to be missing the point, so let me stop being polite, and maybe it'll be more clear.



1) Shining a light in someones eyes will piss them off. Obviously its noyt about making friends, I was trying to be a bit more subtle.



2) Lets assume for a moment its NOT some one coming home from church. If the driver is already not happy, due to knowing he made a mistake, or simply upset with being pulled over, or truly harbors a bone to pick with police, Is it wise to FURTHER antagonize him?



3) Shining a light in a rearveiw mirror does VERY little to illuminate the interior of a car. Due to its position, it CERTAINLY cannot illuminate any place a gun would be hidden.



4) Maybe I'm out there, but I believe the driver has as much right to know exactly whats going on as the officer does. As such, BLINDING him is WRONG. Further, If the driver is intent on shooting the officer, why bother looking in the mirror?



5) As MGM mentioned, the power option in defense is wonderful, and can make this silly tactic of the police more deadly than helpful by blinding the officer with his own lights.



6) You claim its a good idea to treat the driver with respect, and then expect respect in return. Shining a light in someone's face is NOT respectful. Treat the average joe as a criminal, and you should expect that he is going to react accordingly.



Now, I am truly sorry you don't accept my POV. But as long as the Cops, police, officers, troopers etc. take the view that using assinine tactics designed to blind a driver in the cops own defense are a good idea, I will speak out against them.



So far, I have shown six good reasons versus your one why blinding a driver in violation is a bad idea. You do as you see fit. But pull that crap on me, and I will return the favor by reaiming the mirror, whether it be back at you or simply to get the light from my face will depend on chance as to where it goes.



Obviously it IS "us vs. them. "



EMD, Last I checked, you cannot fire a gun with your face. Nor is it likely that you will be holding to your nose waiting for the cop. Further, if you are, its not likely the cop will see it in the mirror, OR through the back window. To sum up, the mirror is small enough that it will only illuminate the drivers face, and I have NEVER seen a gun stored on someones face.



I did not ask WHY you got pulled over alot, I merely pointed out that since Merryman felt I had a better knowledge of the local officers than I should, that you seemed to have even better than I. I do not, as some may, judge people by how many traffic violations they have or do not have.



As to loud exhaust:



1) A cop claiming he will test mufflers for noise and has no way of doing so is harassing, especially when he claims the mufflers are "worn out" (in itself impossible to tell w/o looking) when they are in fact brand new.



2) A cop judging speed by noise emitted is simply harassing, as there is NO direct correlation between noise and speed that can be assumed or shown as constant.



As to being pulled over for no reason:



I showed one example that was EXACTLY that. In fact, I left out the fact that cop nearly slid into my car he was so anxious to "catch" me. All that after I watched him run a redlight to follow me. His fellow officers confirmed my observations.



Its a fact of life in small towns that local sops harass certain individuals. I watched one do that the other night. I was standing talking with another cop friend of mine and and he said that the other officer was pushing the bounds of harassment VERY hard. As his superior, my friend called him on the radio to remind him to be reasonable and watch his tactics.



The cop that shined the light in my face was looking for a drunk to pull over, and did everthing he could to make me do something illegal. He figured he had reasonable suspicion that I was a drunk since I was out running around at 2am, which is the time bars close in PA. Too bad I was sober huh? He cited me despite the fact that the law clearly shows what I did to be legal and allowable. And the judge threw the case out when I brought up the section of the law that PROVED him wrong. So why cite me if he is so knowledgeable in the ways of the vehicle code? Simply to harass me. When he found a stone sober driver, he became pissed off. Why? Beacuse its not about helping for this guy, its about numbers and quotas. He had one pulled over, by golly he was gonna write that one for SOMETHING, even if he had to disregard the law to do it.



A "cop out" huh? Sounds to me like some just dont want to hear the truth about how some officers act. And I'll repeat what I have said before. I know PERSONALLY some officers, and have been ticketed by others, that were VERY courteous, and they got the same in return.

 

[EMDDIESEL]

Max wrote: "If the driver is intent on shooting the officer, why bother looking in the mirror?"





SO HE KNOWS WHERE THE OFFICER IS TO SHOOT HIM!