ZF Powerline for 2025 RAM HD Diesel

[endoscott]

Just get an old Kubota. I have a 1978 B7100, super easy to maintain. I mean I change the oil every few years. That thing just never breaks down. I did have to replace glow plugs and of course all the fuel line and filter stuff (housing cracked). Newer B21 (2000) is a little more complicated but still super dependable. There are a million used Kubotas around.

 

[Signal73]

Or get a newer one right out of warranty and delete it.

 

[LorenStrodtman]

My problem was that I have a B2150 Kubota (not the most common model, for certain), but it apparently was not well maintained sometime in the past. After a new head, #1 connecting rod, bore hone and re-ring that still blew by, a full tear down with Kumar Brothers sleeves, new pistons, rings, etc. that still blew by I paid $400 for genuine Kubota rings (!!!!!!!) and did a mild cross-hatch restoration and it was breaking in nicely until shortly thereafter put two holes in the block (at cylinder #1). I finally paid a small fortune for a used replacement V1200-5B engine and it's worked well so far. Starts right off, and is much quieter and smoother. I believe the original engine got water in cylinder #1, then finally got a bent rod and quite likely the crank which led to its eventual destruction. I could have bought a lifetime of gasoline for my old Massey Ferguson 135 that the Kubota was supposed to replace.

 

[Diesel85]

https://www.equipmentworld.com/truc...gasoline-engine-announced-for-kenworth-trucks

I think it's a great idea to offer diversification to the customer. Hopefully RAM will be smart enough to throw this under the hood of the next gen RAM HD for folks that want a reliable Cummins engine, but that runs gas.

Me, I have my negative opinions about gas engines. Biggest gripe is emissions on them, mainly the EVAP systems on these new vehicles. They are just way too touchy more so when they age and the seals on the purge and pressure lines start aging, it is like chasing windmills. I wish there were kits to delete the EGR and EVAP systems out of gas vehicles.

Any problem I've run into on modern diesels aren't emissions, but rather engine parts problems or computer problems. This is over the course of operating them since the term "diesel emissions" came into play back in 2007 with DPF regens, and then SCRs with DEF in 2011. I racked up 350k+ on a 2012 F-350 with no emissions issues, and that was really the first full year of DEF. I also remember the fun finding DEF too. Heck, I was skeptical about it too. But hey, I'm either lucky, or something.

 

[Grumpy8811]

I think it's a great idea to offer diversification to the customer. Hopefully RAM will be smart enough to throw this under the hood of the next gen RAM HD for folks that want a reliable Cummins engine, but that runs gas.

Me, I have my negative opinions about gas engines. Biggest gripe is emissions on them, mainly the EVAP systems on these new vehicles. They are just way too touchy more so when they age and the seals on the purge and pressure lines start aging, it is like chasing windmills. I wish there were kits to delete the EGR and EVAP systems out of gas vehicles.

Any problem I've run into on modern diesels aren't emissions, but rather engine parts problems or computer problems. This is over the course of operating them since the term "diesel emissions" came into play back in 2007 with DPF regens, and then SCRs with DEF in 2011. I racked up 350k+ on a 2012 F-350 with no emissions issues, and that was really the first full year of DEF. I also remember the fun finding DEF too. Heck, I was skeptical about it too. But hey, I'm either lucky, or something.

if somebody had offered a competitive gasoline powered truck when I bought my 16, that is what I would own. I would say if you think you will save any money owning a diesel, you are delusional and that gasoline is a better choice for many people..

I think the biggest problem on diesels now is the emissions systems, whereas the gas models that emissions stuff is almost perfected..
the DEF pump failed on my 2016 Ram.. ask me how much that cost and how helpless you feel driving while the 150 Miles to drive before you are screwed light is on..

 

[promisedland]

"ask me how much that cost and how helpless you feel driving while the 150 Miles to drive before you are screwed light is on"‍
I experienced this with the Paccar trucks I run at work...
This is why I'm petting my 04 Ram

 

[Diesel85]

"ask me how much that cost and how helpless you feel driving while the 150 Miles to drive before you are screwed light is on"‍
I experienced this with the Paccar trucks I run at work...
This is why I'm petting my 04 Ram

Here's my take. It is the same with gassers. The expectations are set way too high for all emissions systems, more so as they get used and age.

I wonder how many more diesels would be sold if they didn't have a DPF and SCR system, but rather a modern burn control strategy as we technically have now with a properly tuned deleted truck?

 

[Shiner]

The 25’s have went back to injecting fuel into the exhaust to burn off the soot. Oh goody, less mileage.

 

[AH64ID]

The 25’s have went back to injecting fuel into the exhaust to burn off the soot. Oh goody, less mileage.

Why would a 7th injector burn more fuel?

All 6.7's have injected fuel into the exhaust, so it's not going back to anything. The 07-24's just did it with the 6 main injectors, vs a 7th injector.

 

[Grumpy8811]

Here's my take. It is the same with gassers. The expectations are set way too high for all emissions systems, more so as they get used and age.

I wonder how many more diesels would be sold if they didn't have a DPF and SCR system, but rather a modern burn control strategy as we technically have now with a properly tuned deleted truck?

honestly never had any real issues with gasoline emission systems, maybe a couple 02 sensors in my lifetime.
40 years ago, yes. nowadays almost unheard of..

never going to get rid of Particulate Matter emissions in a diesel without the DPF... or particulate trap as they were called 30 years ago.. as PM is simply a byproduct of combustion.
but they can control NOx emissions with SCR only and no EGR...
there is no way to get a diesel engine as clean as it runs today without aftertreatment DPF and SCR..
NOx emissions are byproducts of hi combustion temps, lowering combustion temps with EGR is one way to achieve NOx reductions, or aftertreatment (SCR) is the other... just the nature of the beast.

I agree that they just keep restricting emissions when its already as clean as it can be, so the regulators just keep raising the bar for minimal reductions at maximum cost..

 

[Shiner]

Why would a 7th injector burn more fuel?

All 6.7's have injected fuel into the exhaust, so it's not going back to anything. The 07-24's just did it with the 6 main injectors, vs a 7th injector.

Well yes and no, they injected more fuel later to build heat for regen, now they are injecting directly via an extra injector. More worthless parts for a stupid system to give us “cleaner” exhaust at the expense of efficiency, more parts equals more potential bad parts. All of these after treatment systems are a joke and problematic. I still say, too many new things changed at once on this new engine. I will not be one of the guinea pigs.

 

[Diesel85]

Well yes and no, they injected more fuel later to build heat for regen, now they are injecting directly via an extra injector. More worthless parts for a stupid system to give us “cleaner” exhaust at the expense of efficiency, more parts equals more potential bad parts. All of these after treatment systems are a joke and problematic. I still say, too many new things changed at once on this new engine. I will not be one of the guinea pigs.

The rumor mill has also turned to say that in 2027-2028 the 7.2l Cummins will go in these here RAM trucks. Folks are hesitating on waiting it out, buying a 2024 leftover, or keeping their current rigs on the road.

Problem is, if they do go worst case scenario, and do go to the 7.2l in 2027, that means the revamped 6.7l will only be out for 2 years. I could see that being a potential parts conundrum for folks that keep their truck for 20+ years. For folks that have dealt with nonsense like this with other engines/manufacturers that produce an engine for a short amount of time, parts (even aftermarket) can be problematic in terms of a shortage. Or in other words a major headache.

If that's the case, it will remind me of the EcoDiesel Gen 3, whereby VM/Stellantis put a truckload of research and work into an engine only to kill it off after 3 years.

 

[Ozymandias]

Im not so sure that this 7.2 will enter the RAM platform, at least not like it is now. Like mentioned, it makes no sense to bring a whole new engine now and retire it just 2 years later.

 

[AH64ID]

The 7.2 is a B series, but it’s also 300lbs heavier which makes me wonder if it is intended for the pickup truck.

Well yes and no, they injected more fuel later to build heat for regen, now they are injecting directly via an extra injector. More worthless parts for a stupid system to give us “cleaner” exhaust at the expense of efficiency, more parts equals more potential bad parts. All of these after treatment systems are a joke and problematic. I still say, too many new things changed at once on this new engine. I will not be one of the guinea pigs.

No what?

The after treatments are a joke and more unreliable than they should. The 7th injector takes a step towards more reliability for the engine and likely better more consistent regens.

I have noticed a distinct difference in regen temps, temp stability, and time to build temps based on engine rpms. Lower rpm active regens are better, likely because the piston speed is slower allowing for better post-combustion injection. The 7th injector won’t have to deal with any of that.

 

[Grumpy8811]

Im not so sure that this 7.2 will enter the RAM platform, at least not like it is now. Like mentioned, it makes no sense to bring a whole new engine now and retire it just 2 years later.

kind of what I think too.. the B engine going in the Ram is more of a legacy platform engine, been around in different forms for about 40 years, been in the pickup truck now for close to 30 . The 6.7 in the Dodge Ram has diverged from the 6.7's used in heavier duty trucks and other platforms when Cummins went to the rear gear train on the commercial market engines... whereas I think Cummins is aiming the new 7.2 at the commercial market where weight or overall package size is not the factor it is on a pickup truck.
The pickup engine is a bit like the old small block Chevy in the respect that Cummins has a ready made market for that engine, nobody is unhappy with it that I know of and the factory and tooling are in place already just to build that one product and focus on it.

 

[Shiner]

The 7.2 is a B series, but it’s also 300lbs heavier which makes me wonder if it is intended for the pickup truck.



No what?

The after treatments are a joke and more unreliable than they should. The 7th injector takes a step towards more reliability for the engine and likely better more consistent regens.

I have noticed a distinct difference in regen temps, temp stability, and time to build temps based on engine rpms. Lower rpm active regens are better, likely because the piston speed is slower allowing for better post-combustion injection. The 7th injector won’t have to deal with any of that.

Fair point. I guess I was referencing the myriad of changes, all at once, becoming an issue with so many changes and new parts. My vote is to eliminate all the bandaid after treatment, all together. I do like the new intake set up though.

 

[Diesel85]

The 7.2 is a B series, but it’s also 300lbs heavier which makes me wonder if it is intended for the pickup truck.



No what?

The after treatments are a joke and more unreliable than they should. The 7th injector takes a step towards more reliability for the engine and likely better more consistent regens.

I have noticed a distinct difference in regen temps, temp stability, and time to build temps based on engine rpms. Lower rpm active regens are better, likely because the piston speed is slower allowing for better post-combustion injection. The 7th injector won’t have to deal with any of that.

I agree. No more worries of fuel dilution.

I never really liked the concept of the injection of fuel on the exhaust stroke. Especially diesel of today that is ULSD being practically non-lubricating.

It's like running a gas engine overly rich, it's not good for the cylinder walls and rings from wash down.

 

[Shiner]

I agree. No more worries of fuel dilution.

I never really liked the concept of the injection of fuel on the exhaust stroke. Especially diesel of today that is ULSD being practically non-lubricating.

It's like running a gas engine overly rich, it's not good for the cylinder walls and rings from wash down.

I have to admit, I forgot about some having fuel dilution issues, which I have not had to deal with.

 

[AH64ID]

I have to admit, I forgot about some having fuel dilution issues, which I have not had to deal with.

It’s a potential for all the ‘07-‘24 6.7s that are emissions intact, but some have it much worse that others due to a variety of issues.

 

[Tuesdak]

The 7th injector takes a step towards more reliability for the engine and likely better more consistent regens.

A 7th (or 9th for V8's) also allows a higher % of FAME BioDiesel to be run without contaminating the engine oil. #2 diesel will evaporate back out of the engine oil. The BioDiesel component will not. In cylinder post injection using say B99 with it's poorer evaporation on the exhaust stroke is a good way to extend regen times and "make" engine oil.

It's also less wear on the main 6 injectors as the 7th takes some events away from them.

Have they said what % BioDiesel the engine can run?