Gale Banks is off his rocker!

[JasonCzerak]

I never said they can't. If you want to chip your truck and make it a dragstrip monster, more power to you!



Wrenchin' on trucks is a hobby for a lot of folks and I get that. I just don't see why Detroit insists on making ALL of them hotrods. I mean jeesh, might as well get rid of the 4 wheel drive and lower them while they are at it!



Huskerman

I don't see it as a hotrod.



I dunno dude, but I do not think a "STOCK" first gen dually could come CLOSE to a stock 3rd gen dually at 23,000#'s up a hill.



What's a stock 1st gen rated to gross anyway? I know it's less, so max out both trucks to their specs, in theory, they should be side by side assuming the power increase equals towing increases.



I"m off on my old truck specs, someone correct me.

 

[AKaiser]

I never said they can't. If you want to chip your truck and make it a dragstrip monster, more power to you!



Wrenchin' on trucks is a hobby for a lot of folks and I get that. I just don't see why Detroit insists on making ALL of them hotrods. I mean jeesh, might as well get rid of the 4 wheel drive and lower them while they are at it!



Huskerman

I think we are at the right point now, in terms of streetability, stock-wise. My 05 CTD will do everything my 99 318 would do, get better fuel economy, and then some. In fact, I don't worry that I'm going to get bulldozed by the 18 wheeler in the "Swift" lane when I'm coming up the on-ramp. (apologies to Swift drivers everywhere).

 

[BBowers]

Because of the slow burning, high btu nature of diesel, it must turn significantly slower than a fast burning less btu per pound gasoline fueled engine. I read in Diesel Power magazzine that the practical rpm limit for a diesel is 5,000 rpm. Anything more and it loses power quick cuz the diesel is not staying in the combustion chamber long enough to burn!

 

[JasonCzerak]

Because of the slow burning, high btu nature of diesel, it must turn significantly slower than a fast burning less btu per pound gasoline fueled engine. I read in Diesel Power magazzine that the practical rpm limit for a diesel is 5,000 rpm. Anything more and it loses power quick cuz the diesel is not staying in the combustion chamber long enough to burn!

Top fuelers do not keep all the flame in the cylinder for each cycle.

 

[Huskerman]

Top fuelers do not keep all the flame in the cylinder for each cycle.

True and they also rebuild the motors between heats. What's the point? I don't WANT nor do I NEED Dodge to keep increasing the HP on these things. I want to be able to tow a mountain and get good MPG while doing it.



Huskerman

 

[JasonCzerak]

True and they also rebuild the motors between heats. What's the point? I don't WANT nor do I NEED Dodge to keep increasing the HP on these things. I want to be able to tow a mountain and get good MPG while doing it.

Huskerman

That's good, so long as you do not increase your load over time. Like I said a few comments ago, a 1st gen has not a chance keeping up with a 3rd gen in the mountains. in a few years, when 40,000#'s for a 1 ton truck is common, that 325hp 3rd gen won't have a chance with a "5th gen" at 500hp.

It's evolution it's going to happen so long as the demand is there.

 

[Huskerman]

when 40,000#'s for a 1 ton truck is common

If there ever comes a day when Joe-SixPack is towing 40k through the mountains that will probably be the day I quit driving!! :-laf



I already think that they hand out driver licenses too easy in this country.



The thought of some guy towing 40k with is pickup truck while honestly believing that if he ain't doing 80mph he will "get run over" scares the crap out of me.



We have WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many idiots on the road to allow that I hope.

a 1st gen has not a chance keeping up with a 3rd gen in the mountains.

I have no doubt that is true. Just out of curiousity, how fast do you think you need to be going when pulling your 5th wheel/travel trailer through the mountains?



Huskerman

 

[JasonCzerak]

If there ever comes a day when Joe-SixPack is towing 40k through the mountains that will probably be the day I quit driving!! :-laf

I already think that they hand out driver licenses too easy in this country.

The thought of some guy towing 40k with is pickup truck while honestly believing that if he ain't doing 80mph he will "get run over" scares the crap out of me.

We have WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many idiots on the road to allow that I hope.



I have no doubt that is true. Just out of curiousity, how fast do you think you need to be going when pulling your 5th wheel/travel trailer through the mountains?

Huskerman

As fast as you (skill, experience, ect), your equipment and conditions dictate.

Your point taken. But is not a valid argument for "capping" the HP and TQ on a motor. sure 160hp and 400# torque is all ya need. But unloaded putzing around town? most people like to keep up with traffic, or at least SHOULD.

 

[Huskerman]

As fast as you (skill, experience, ect), your equipment and conditions dictate.



Your point taken. But is not a valid argument for "capping" the HP and TQ on a motor. sure 160hp and 400# torque is all ya need. But unloaded putzing around town? most people like to keep up with traffic, or at least SHOULD.

I guess that is where the "rub" is. Too many folks think they are better drivers than they really are and they end up pulling a 35' fifth wheel at 85 MPH. I don't care who you are, I think that is dangerous and stupid.



I come from a family that has a long line of over the road truckers and I can tell you first hand that a lot of folks on the road have no idea what they are doing.



I agree people should keep up with traffic when putzing around town unloaded. You don't need 500hp to do that.



I think you are missing my point. Personally, I don't care if Joe Blow decides to turn his truck into a top fuel dragster. What I DO care about is the fact that I don't want to be FORCED to buy a truck that has about 250 HP more than I need and gets 1/2 the MPG because Joe Blow thinks he needs a top fuel dragster for his truck.



It's MUCH easier to add a chip/computer to a truck and increase the horsepower than it is to increase the fuel economy.



Guess we will just have to agree to disagree and that's ok! Oo.



Huskerman

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I have no doubt that is true. Just out of curiousity, how fast do you think you need to be going when pulling your 5th wheel/travel trailer through the mountains?



Huskerman

My goal as an RVer, has always been to be capable of keeping up with prevailing traffic - not be a rolling roadblock that causes other conventional motorists behind me to take chances in order to get around me.



Added to that, is the desire to myself have enough extra power at my disposal that *I* am not trapped behind a similar rolling roadblock, and am able to pass safely when traffic and road conditions permit.



The ability to do that with a powertrain that operates reliably and economically, and provides a better than average lifespan is also highly valued.



All those expectations and goals have been easily achieved with my '02 - and based upon where I see EPA-designed diesels headed in the future, I'm pretty sure my '02 will continue to be with me for quite some time! :-laf

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

IMO the biggest reason the mileage is down from the early trucks is because of the difference in emissions compliance levels. If you want to get the increased mileage from less power clamp a block to the throttle so that you can only use half throttle - your mileage will go up but even if you restrict your power down to 160hp in a 3rd gen truck your still not going to get the mileage you'd get out of a 1st gen.

I say that because I've well over doubled the power in my 98 24v and I didn't notice any mileage drop in daily use over when it was stock - you just don't use that extra power all that often on a percentage of the time the engine is running.

 

[RVTRKN]

I certainly wouldn't flame somebody because they choose to put an accessory on their truck! Well, not unless we are having a "hide it from the dealer discussion" anyway.



What I can't understand is the desire of truck manufacturers (most likely due to customer demand) to turn our trucks into race-cars. What's the point? If people want a 500 HP truck, why can't they just buy the Hemi and chip it or the current truck and chip it???



I got a diesel for the torque and the fuel economy. I am already getting considerably less mpg because people asked for a 325 HP truck. I hope Mr. Banks is wrong on this one.

Just buy an SRT10 and save the headache, then show the overpowered DMAX what a real race truck is and pull it on your CTD to the track to show the DMAX what a real towing truck is as well.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I got a diesel for the torque and the fuel economy. I am already getting considerably less mpg because people asked for a 325 HP truck. I hope Mr. Banks is wrong on this one.

I'm probably well over the 400 HP mark with my truck - it's fully controllable and predictable under all driving conditions, RV towing or empty. Towing in mixed terrain (15K GCW) I can easily realize 16 MPG - slightly more in flat open terrain. Empty freeway MPG easily exceeds 22 MPG - and abundant power on tap to spare in any situation.



All this in an engine that RARELY sees over 2000 RPM. That has traditionally been the domain of diesel power - especially inline cylinder configuration. For that reason, I seriously plan to stick with my "old-fashioned", heavy block, long stroke, low RPM engine. It delivers what I want, in spades, and never breaks a sweat or runs me ragged with excessive operating expenses...

 

[JasonCzerak]

...



All this in an engine that RARELY sees over 2000 RPM.



...

heh, there's not a day that goes by that my truck doesn't see 3200rpm (once warmed up that is. )

 

[Huskerman]

I am THANKFUL that I will never have to worry about buying a used truck of Jason's!!!



Jason working on his next engine!



#ad




:-laf :-laf :-laf



Huskerman

 

[Forrest Nearing]

heh, there's not a day that goes by that my truck doesn't see 3200rpm (once warmed up that is. )

mine only revs to 4000



I couldn't imagine lugging mine down so hard as to never see over 2000rpm, my clutch would hate me more than it already does!

 

[JasonCzerak]

mine only revs to 4000



I couldn't imagine lugging mine down so hard as to never see over 2000rpm, my clutch would hate me more than it already does!

!!!



The way I see it, the motor is claimed to run 3200rpm all day long at 100% load at WOT (stock WOT).



Now, if I never see about 2000rpm, the one time I need 3200rpm, or wanna race, or what have you, it's going to break something not used to 3200rpm.



the motor will wear into that's sweet spot under 2000rpm. Need to stretch them legs ya know? I keep mine fit and in shape with a daily run, as apposed to a walk with an jog here and there.

 

[AKaiser]

!!!



The way I see it, the motor is claimed to run 3200rpm all day long at 100% load at WOT (stock WOT).



Now, if I never see about 2000rpm, the one time I need 3200rpm, or wanna race, or what have you, it's going to break something not used to 3200rpm.



the motor will wear into that's sweet spot under 2000rpm. Need to stretch them legs ya know? I keep mine fit and in shape with a daily run, as apposed to a walk with an jog here and there.

I'm sure the metal fatigue life expectancy of a motor run at 2000 RPM averages will consistently exceed one run at 3200, for multiple reasons.

 

[JasonCzerak]

I'm sure the metal fatigue life expectancy of a motor run at 2000 RPM averages will consistently exceed one run at 3200, for multiple reasons.

Well, yeah I'm sure. I'm not running 3200rpm all day long here. I'm mostly down under 2000rpm since every day isn't a race from point A to B.



I like to run the motor though the RPM band once every now and again, either I'm at 1/4 throttle taking it up slowly, or at WOT banging gears.



I've noticed if I go for a week taking it easy, the truck doesn't run right. So I ran her up to 117-ish (key in start, ABS off, 3200rpm, 1400EGT in 32-degree temps). After a run like that, all seems better burn up some soot I suppose.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

mine only revs to 4000



I couldn't imagine lugging mine down so hard as to never see over 2000rpm, my clutch would hate me more than it already does!

WELL, UMMmmmmm - 2000 RPM in 6th gear puts me over 70 MPH in a state where the speed limit is 55 MPH - do ya suggest that maybe I drop down to 4th gear and then run it at redline instead?



The sad fact implied in that above quote, is the gradual acceptance of higher RPM in diesel engines as normal, beneficial and a necessity, and the forgetting of the FACT that the traditional basic advantages of a diesel were in it's power, torque and economy at LOW RPM. In fact, earlier threads and posts in this very board frequently were critical of the higher RPM competing diesels were forced to use to generate power in the class of the smaller displacement, LOW RPM Cummins...



MY, how times have changed!



In the hills, towing our 5th wheel, I can COMFORTABLY cruise at under 2000 RPM at 55 MPH in 5th gear - NO "lugging" of the engine involved - acceleration is immediate at the touch of the go-pedal - do ya suggest that instead, I drop down still another gear or 2 to get the RPM's up to 3 grand or so?



For what purpose, and to impress WHO?



One of my primary reasons for buying the '02 Dodge/Cummins combo was EXACTLY due to the fact that 2000 RPM is right at it's "sweet spot" for power, economy and torque - IF I wanted or preferred high RPM operation, I'd have bought a gasser, or a Ford or GM V8 diesel - or waited for one of the "latest and greatest" new high RPM EPA regulated diesels all buyers of future trucks will be forced to drive because nothing else is available.



But no, I prefer to continue with a traditional diesel. one with a heavy block, long stroke, and power in the 1800-2000 RPM range that EASILY handles all loads that *I* have yet to place upon it... :-laf