Another Exhaust Brake Question

[TKeeler]

Has anyone checked to see if your brake lights come on when ever the exhaust brake is on and functioning? This is common on the large transit bus's that have these brakes. Personally I would prefer they only come on when I step on the brake pedal.

 

[jelag]

The exhaust brake circuit will not turn on the brake lights...

However if you use a brake controller using the hand control, the brake lights will come on as you're turning on the trailer brakes... .

 

[BBeck]

Hi jelag:



Do you have a recommendation for a trailer brake controller on the new 2007. 5 trucks? Hopefully, this question isn't too off topic.



Thanks,

Brad

 

[Jeb_H]

BB,



Not Jelag here but I have put the Tekonsha 90185 Prodigy on mine as its been wonder on my other truck... It has worked so well on my Gote' and I mounted it in the dash just under the radio in the wide thin slot for storage. I drilled a hole just large enough to run the four wires from the back of the brake controller down and behind the dash to mate up with the trailer tow wiring harness. I sure looks good there and it fit snug enough that I didn't even have to mount the units case.



Might see if your local trailer place has one of these and check it out if interested...

 

[BBeck]

Thanks Jeb,



If you can take a picture and post it, I'm sure others would like to see how it looks.



Thanks,

Brad

 

[TKeeler]

BB,



Not Jelag here but I have put the Tekonsha 90185 Prodigy on mine as its been wonder on my other truck... It has worked so well on my Gote' and I mounted it in the dash just under the radio in the wide thin slot for storage. I drilled a hole just large enough to run the four wires from the back of the brake controller down and behind the dash to mate up with the trailer tow wiring harness. I sure looks good there and it fit snug enough that I didn't even have to mount the units case.



Might see if your local trailer place has one of these and check it out if interested...

Yes pictures would be nice Here is more information on the Tekonsha 90185 http://www.tekonsha.com/prodig.html

 

[craiggo]

Also try the Hensley Tru-Control

I'm using the Prodigy now for my 30' travel trailer but I think the Hensley is a better controler. More expensive but more powerful which equates to better braking power.



http://www.hensleymfg.com/trucontrol/index.html

 

[Wolfy]

Hensley vs Prodigy

I'm using the Prodigy now for my 30' travel trailer but I think the Hensley is a better controler. More expensive but more powerful which equates to better braking power.



http://www.hensleymfg.com/trucontrol/index.html

Thanks for the link, Craiggo



The second testimonial on this page has something to say about the two controllers:

http://www.hensleymfg.com/trucontrol/testimonials1.html



I'm wondering how these things relate to exhaust-brake function, if at all?



I have sent for the Hensley free video.

 

[craiggo]

Well I think the exhaust brake will do most of your heavy work especially on the freeway or in the hills. But, In emergency braking and in stop and go traffic, I still think you'd want a brake controller. In addition, some states require them.

 

[jmadison]

transit buses use a transmison retarder and not a engine brake. most buses use zf,voit and allison transmissons. the retarder system works internaly in the trans. and is controlled by the trans. computer. some fire trucks and garbage trucks use them also. as far as the lights on the enging compt. of the bus are concerned they are called deceleration lights. when there is 0 signal on the tps switch it sends a signal to a relay to put power to the lights. if you notice these lights are amber not red,as soon as the tps shows the slightest signal the decell lights go off. hope this info helps

 

[TKeeler]

transit buses use a transmison retarder and not a engine brake. most buses use zf,voit and allison transmissons. the retarder system works internaly in the trans. and is controlled by the trans. computer. some fire trucks and garbage trucks use them also. as far as the lights on the enging compt. of the bus are concerned they are called deceleration lights. when there is 0 signal on the tps switch it sends a signal to a relay to put power to the lights. if you notice these lights are amber not red,as soon as the tps shows the slightest signal the decell lights go off. hope this info helps

Some transit bus's are still using Jacobs brakes. I have worked with vehicles made by Prevost Car out of Canada since the early 80's (several hundred of them) which is one of the largest transit bus manufactures and all have had Detroit Diesels, 8V's and Series 60's with Allison transmissions and most had Jacobs two speed engine brakes. Yes some have had the transmission retarder but not many. A few have even had both. They work very well, better than the Jacobs brakes, but also produce considerable heat for the transmission fluid that has to be dealt with.

 

[jmadison]

tkeeler;your right about some using jake brakes. allthe busses iv'e dealt with in so. fl. had trans. retarders. trans. retarders do build up a lot of fluid heat. on the buses down here do the the hot weather(we have 2 seasons here hot or hoter)they have massive trans. coolers. even with the massive coolers the fluid color gets dark quick which means constant fluid changes. thanks for your imput.

 

[jelag]

There are 3 ways of retarding..... engine brakes... . which cycle the valves with special adapters on the cylinder heads... . Exhaust brakes ... . which do nothing more than back up the exhaust in the head..... and in line retarders which attach to the drive line and are eddy brakes... . a rotor that turns like a disc brake and a magnetic field is applied to the rotor. . it will turn red hot with no mechanical connection... .

Because most engine brakes are more effective they usually have 2 or 3 setting based on how many cylinders the engine has... . you might be able as an example on a 6 cyl engine turn on 2 cylinders for light braking and 4 cylinders for moderate braking... . in either case... . the truck and transmission need to be in the proper gear so that engine over-rev does not occur... . the clutch on a modern 550 HP CAT or Cummins will self destruct at 2500 or 2800 rpm... . they just aren't designed to rev that high... .

In all 3 examples there is heat that is created when braking occurs... in the engine and exhaust brake the cooling system carry away that heat... . in the drive line brake the air takes it away... .

There is no transmission that I'm aware of that will absorb the HP needed to slow a vehicle down... . all the transmission does is transmit the power from the drive line to the engine.....

Some engines will not handle either an engine brake or exhaust brake because of their design..... we own a CAT C-10 or M-10 don't know which it is... . but its a 10 Liter engine in an Navstar Chassis..... I looked at an eddy brake for it... . but to be honest its got an oversize set of brakes and that what we do... so we left it the way it is... .

If the automatic transmission is in good condition it doesn't care which way the power goes through it... . front to back or back to front, it just moves power... . if the fluid pressure in the torque converter drops during braking, than the torque converter will slip... . and this will cause fluid temperature rise as the torque converter tries to shear the fluid.....

We have worked on all 3 designs... . and to be honest the eddy brake is my favorite... . but its the most costly to install... . its very adaptable to all applications and the heat is shed to the air around it instead of the cooling system... . it does require an alternator with lots of current availability to provide the magnetic field for braking... .

Hope this uncovers some of the myths mentioned above... . if you have more questions ask away... .

BTW my personal suggestion for a brake controller is the Brake Smart or the Jordan 20-20... . both are very adjustable and have the ability to add more braking the harder you pound on the brake pedal in a panic stop..... unlike all the rest I've seen..... except for the stock unit on the new FORDS..... the ability to feather the brake pedal for soft braking and getting 100% when you want it ""RIGHT NOW"" is very important as long as you can control it... .

 

[MJarske]

I just Installed the Brakesmart tis week, hooked up to my 31' tt about 8,000 unloaded, the factory settings were perfect,so smooth at city and highway driving. I had a oyager before... a huge difference. will be towing over the coastal mountains this weekend that will be the first real test.

 

[craiggo]

MJarske,



Are you going to be pulling over Hwy 17? IF so, I'd love to hear how the Brakesmart performs there.



Craig

 

[Mel Swanson]

Geter stopped

BTW my personal suggestion for a brake controller is the Brake Smart or the Jordan 20-20... . both are very adjustable and have the ability to add more braking the harder you pound on the brake pedal in a panic stop..... unlike all the rest I've seen..... except for the stock unit on the new FORDS..... the ability to feather the brake pedal for soft braking and getting 100% when you want it ""RIGHT NOW"" is very important as long as you can control it... .

:--) Thanks for taking the time to put all this good information together. These are issues I have been wondering about.

 

[TKeeler]

BTW my personal suggestion for a brake controller is the Brake Smart or the Jordan 20-20... . both are very adjustable and have the ability to add more braking the harder you pound on the brake pedal in a panic stop..... unlike all the rest I've seen..... except for the stock unit on the new FORDS..... the ability to feather the brake pedal for soft braking and getting 100% when you want it ""RIGHT NOW"" is very important as long as you can control it... .

I like what I am reading about the Jordan 2020 but unfortunately it doesn't appear that it is available. The owner sold out last year and the new owners are coming out with a new model this summer, the 'Ultima Plus'... . I just found out this morning.

 

[PLanciers]

Brake controller

I'm looking real hard at the Brakesmart recommended by Jelag everyone I know who has one raves that it's the best they've ever owned!



Pete



You want your truck at the right price Oo. really don't pay more contact:



Adam Macomber



BusinessLink Specialist / TDR member representative

Dishman Dodge; http://www.dodge.com/commercial/

509-924-3250 / 877-568-3363/Cell 509-475-2480



Get your truck built the way you want it for $4. 5-5K under Invoice/FWP pricing...



You can pick it up in Spokane WA or have him drop ship it to a local dealer...

 

[dpatterson]

I installed a Brakesmart about 3 years ago in my '98 and transferred it to

my '06. I tow a 9,000# boat trailer and a 14,000# 5th wheel. It has been excellent for both. I particularly like that it operates directly from the pressure in the truck brake system rather than depending on accelerometers or other artificial sensing methods.

 

[MJarske]

craiggo I'm sure I will haul over 17 at some point. this weekend I'm going north over 128 and Hwy20 to the coast. There are some decent grades on both, and I will report how the Brakesmart and the Jake work together.

My work is headquarteed in Felton so I get down that way but only occaisionally.