Best Injectors for Fuel Mileage - 2nd Gen

[PRout]

Thinking about going for increased mileage. .

Looking for opinions on what injectors are turning out to be best for fuel mileage?

So far from what Ive gathered its looking like RV275's & Mach 1. 5's seem to be getting good reports.

What do you think?? Anything more efficient than the above?

Thanks,
Phil

PS. Currently running DD3's. Getting about 17. 5 mpg overall, good power, smooth idle.

 

[fox]

You have correct info!

My truck got better mileage with the 275 injectors than it gets now. But the power is better now.

 

[Fishin Guide]

What are you getting now and what is your HP goal?



I have a F1 M6+ and get 23. xxmpg on the freeway at 70mph.



Dave

 

[paulb]

What are you getting now and what is your HP goal?



I have a F1 M6+ and get 23. xxmpg on the freeway at 70mph.



Dave

"PS. Currently running DD3's. Getting about 17. 5 mpg overall, good power, smooth idle. "



Gotta read Dave... :-laf



The Mach 1. 6's are a new technology then the 1. 5's. They are supposed to have less smoke and get better mileage.



Paul

 

[Fishin Guide]

"PS. Currently running DD3's. Getting about 17. 5 mpg overall, good power, smooth idle. "



Gotta read Dave... :-laf



Paul

Why would I start now??



Actually, all of Don's injectors use the new technology. The 1. 5 to 1. 6 is just a difference of a few horses.



Dave

 

[PRout]

Thanks for the input.

Its pretty amazing that mach 6's give that good of mileage.

Also interesting that the Mach 1. 2, 1. 5, & 1. 6's all show an 85HP increase, but the 1. 2's are showing they are a fuel mileage injector. I wonder what the differences really are between these three are as far as power, towing egt's & fuel efficiency are.

My goal is to increase overall fuel mileage, power is secondary.

 

[Fishin Guide]

Actually, there is about 4 HP per . 1 with regards to the Mach injectors.



So a M1 is 65HP. A M1. 6 is 90HP.



The point is in reference to the stepped power rating. This is why 2. 4s were so popular. They got you M2 pricing halfway to a M3 performance.



I don't know why one would be a better milage injector vs another. I have run M2's, M3's, M4's and M6+. Of all of them, the M4 was the best milage injector for me. I lost a little going to the 6, but that's to be expected.



Milage difference between M2 and M4? M2's netted 23. 7mpg. M4's were at 24. 35mpg. This is all highway driving. In town, my milage really suffers. With a tight TC and 3. 54s, 285's and a very heavy foot, I am lucky to see 17mpg in town. And 35 MPH speed limites do not help either.



In the end, it's all what you want from your truck. I prefer to drive on the injectors and add a little timing to keep things cool. The box is turned on as needed.



I feel it drives better day in and out and the power is a flick of the switch away. Of all the injectors I have owned, the M4's are by far the easiest to live with for EGTs, milage and overall performance.



Will you need mods to run 'em? Sure. But won't you need them with a fueling box someday as well?



Just for a comparision, Bob Wagners truck of Smarty fame puts down a touch over 400 HP with a Smarty, M4s and a Dodgezilla. He has a big trailer and I am pretty sure he tows a bit.



Something to consider.



Dave

 

[MKinner]

which ever one you choose, go with the Mach injectors. i am getting 20-21 with my setup and am very pleased.

 

[EricBu12]

Dave,



I Have the 2nd stage Bosch injectors. . I guess a step up from RV275's. . I tow a heavy 5th and have an Edge EZ and a 4 wire bluechip box. have also a hybrid turbo and 4" exhaust.



Would those M4 injectors do well in my setup? or are different mods needed?. I am looking for mileage while towing and good power without high EGT's...



Is the 4 wire blue chip outdated? it is the one that taps the wire on the Pump. . so far in 6 years, no problem. . Ehat is the smarty and quadzilla? what do they do differently? Right now I can get 20 solo on 3:54 gear and 10 towing 15K.

 

[PRout]

Final Exam:

Which of these following injectors will give the best overall fuel mileage?

A. ) Bosch RV275

B. ) Mach 1

C. ) Mach 1. 2

D. ) Mach 1. 5

E. ) Mach 1. 6

F. ) Mach 4

G. ) Other

 

[Fishin Guide]

Dave,



I Have the 2nd stage Bosch injectors. . I guess a step up from RV275's. . I tow a heavy 5th and have an Edge EZ and a 4 wire bluechip box. have also a hybrid turbo and 4" exhaust.



Would those M4 injectors do well in my setup? or are different mods needed?. I am looking for mileage while towing and good power without high EGT's...



Is the 4 wire blue chip outdated? it is the one that taps the wire on the Pump. . so far in 6 years, no problem. . Ehat is the smarty and quadzilla? what do they do differently? Right now I can get 20 solo on 3:54 gear and 10 towing 15K.

I would never recommend heavy towing wit an M4. It's not the right tool for the job. It can be done, but I could not tow anything more than my jetsled with 3. 54 gears, PDR35, 285 tires and a Comp run on level 1. It's just too much fuel available too soon. If you had towing twins, you would be okay as long as you kept the box off or better yet, added timing only.



The cam really helped cool my motor as well.



I towed 16K combined to Canada from Seattle one day and the owner of the truck on the trailer could not believe how low my temps were. But at cruise, it only takes X amount of fuel to go a given speed at a given load. The extra iar density of the twins was the difference.



Could I have done it with no changes excoet for a single hybrid? Yes I could. But I would have to drive by the EGT gauge and not just drive.



I would Call Rip at Source Automotive and tell him I (Fishin2Deep4U)recommend you talk with him. He'll most likely say nothing bigger than a 2 without some more air. JMO.



Dave

 

[Fishin Guide]

Which of these following injectors will give the best overall fuel mileage?



A. ) Bosch RV275



B. ) Mach 1



C. ) Mach 1. 2



D. ) Mach 1. 5



E. ) Mach 1. 6



F. ) Mach 4



G. ) Other

Generally speaking, the Machs will be better through a better tip design, flow rates, spray pattern, ect. The RV275 is a mass produced loose tolerance injector. That's the true difference.





Any of the Mach series will be about the same. Cruising milage to me is about the same with any injector. The differrence comes from the design of the injector and how it functions at that constant rpm.



The Machs get better milage for a reason. generally speaking, Don M has total control over the actual hole in the tip. You can't get that from a honed injector. If you want a honed injector, run yours for a hundred thousand miles, the fuel hones 'em great! So, you have a tip designed to do a specific job. It's not a remanufactured part. So, the tolerances are continuous.



So why does a producion RV275 not give the milage of a Mach injector? After all, it's EDM'd just like others. The difference is the quality control at the time on manufacture. As we all know, injector rates can vary widely out of the box. This is not after they have been touched by honing or other means. Take a set of Don's sticks and they all flow the same from the EDM. There's just more control at a slower rate of production.



I personally am not a fan of honed injectors after owning and running them in several different sets. They in no way can compare to the Mach injectors other than having "performance" in thier name. Low smoke, lower temps and milage come from quality design. That's why I only use the Mach series sticks.



By all means, buy what fits your needs best. My buddy has a different set of twins than I do. Is he right or am I? Does it really matter? The only reason to go into so much detail about a simple injector is to try to convey the reasoning I used to make my selections. This works for me, it may not for you.



Dave

 

[joaker]

Are the 10 or 11 hole sticks from II another viable option?

 

[PRout]

Sure, if they give the best mileage that would be great. Thanks.

 

[Forrest]

I started with Don Ms Mach 3's. Don asked me how I wanted them "cut" ... less than 370s, same or more. Well ... the answer is obvious ... MORE. I don't remember what mileage I got, it was excellent. Then I found out Don had a set of 370s he hand tweaked to run on the dyno. I swapped the Mach 3+'s for those. Dyno #'s went up, as did the smoke. :-laf



Mileage ... I took a trip to Las Vegas a month or so ago, got 24. x MPG. My "running around" mileage is always better than 20.



Other than injector design, that Don has down well, I found something else that might contribute to better mileage. When I had the Valet Switch installed, that prohibits rack travel, I found that the bigger injectors required very little throttle to run the truck. I'd switch off the Valet switch, allowing rack travel & got the same results. I think what is happening is I don't have to give it enough throttle position to "engage" all of the workings of the pump. In addition, I don't hardly spool up the turbo (PDR40). I can actually cook right up & over the Sierra Nevada Mts in the Valet mode.



I asked Don what the effective "#" of these injectors are ... the response was "10s". Now I just need a couple of turbos to burn it all!!!

 

[Jed]

are 370 marine injectors available for 24 valve ?

 

[HEMI®Dart]

It's comparing apples to oranges..

are 370 marine injectors available for 24 valve ?

Nope. 12V. They'll probably haze @ idle and you'll lose a little mpg.



Shortshift,



I just got a killer deal on a set of Dynomite Diesel Stage 4 injectors for a 12 Valve.





I was running DD III's like you are.



The DDP 4's idle seem like they idle 40% smoother than DD III's.



The engine is 25% quieter w/ DDP 4's.



The throttle response is much improved over DD III's. This is w/ valet switch on.



The DDP 4's burn clean. I cant believe how much cleaner they are over the Diesel Dynamics. From idle to redline. These have 50 more HP then the DD III's.



I have not ran the truck long enough to get a mpg comparison. A tank lasts a month.



If you want a strong milage increase, I think DDP 1's may be the ticket.



Dynomite Diesel injectors are a Strong buy in my book.

 

[PRout]

Wow Hemi, those sound like some nice injectors! Sounds like they make it run like a new truck again. Definitely appreciate the input. I probably should have mentioned that my truck is a 24v and not a 12v so they wont work in a 24. Hopefully your info will help out some 12v owners. Sometimes hearing stories like these about the older motors makes me want to get one though.

Since Im having a tough time deciding on which injectors to get (pretty much on the fence between M1. 2s & 1. 6s) I decided to order a set of RV275s just to get a baseline of the kind of mileage the truck can get since they are known for being pretty efficient. Also alot of people have gone to them for towing heavy. For the price, they are hard to go wrong with and will see if they become permanent or just a test.

One thing that I found a while ago is, in my experience is there is a point where you can over do the hopping up thing and actually lose some of the fun factor and drivability of the vehicle. In the past, Ive had the overall most satisfaction by slightly pepping up the rig and making it better all the way around vs overdoing it and losing drivability and reliability. Always have ended up most satisfied with it mild vs wild. Just running clean and peppy like it should have run from the factory. Everyone is different but for now Im quite comfortable with the choice of going with the mild 275s. Who knows, may be selling them in a month. . Heck, its fun just fiddling around with these rigs. Lots you can do to them.

 

[JFaughn]

Hemi/Bill
Could you tell me a little more about the stage 4s [ I could use a deal ] , not sure but they sound like more than I may be looking for , I caught onto this post because of the millage ? I get caught all the time with the 2nd gen posts , then is turns out to be 24v , my plans are for every day driver , towing 32' Airstream , mountains , millage , probably not more than 350-400 HP .
I was also going to up grade the trans [ Georands when the $$ fits ]
ex-brake , I figured I would need to up grade the turbo to fit these plans .
Thanks John

 

[PRout]

Ended up getting a set of RV275's from Bob Wagner / Rip Rook and very satisfied with the choice.

Took about 3 hrs to install them which included set up, clean up, and just taking my time doing a nice job. Everything is torqued to spec and installed new valve cover & air horn gaskets as well.

They obviously dont have the sort of "brute power" the DD3's had, and you can hear the injection pump a little more, but it sure is clean off the bottom and you dont have to drive it according to the smoke factor. Combined with the smarty set to #3 or 5, it sure drives nice. Smooth right off the bottom, and cruises comfortably.

Boost with 275's & smarty only max's out around 24 or 25psi compared to over 30 before w/ DD3's. Turn the knob on the APB and it is dialable up to the point of turbo overspeeding. Set the wastegate at 38 (which is still a little high for a stock HX35) and can reach it very quickly with the fueling box on. So, strong power is still available with the wire tap box, and the efficiency/drivability is there via the 275 injectors & smarty. This seems to be a more "balanced" and practical setup than before for my mild driving & towing needs.

EGTs are probably lower than before but haven't really looked at them much yet.

No MPG numbers yet, but will post them when available.

May go for a hybrid turbo with a 12cm housing some day, but not really seeing much need for one yet. Will have to do some towing and check it out.

So far, very happy with this setup. Thanks again for the input.