Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Delo 400 15W40 CJ-4 #$#*%#_

[SnoKing]

I changed the oil in my two Cummins 4B150's in the boat just before starting this cruise. At 21 hours the oil is still clear and hard to see on the dip sticks. With CI-4+ it got dark very quickly.



I am not sure about these new improved products!!!!!



SNOKING

 

[WestTN]

That means the new oil is cleaning out something the earlier oil was leaving behind. Beautiful, clear oil in a diesel always means the oil is low in detergency and cannot suspend the dirt until it is changed out.

 

[SnoKing]

That was my point, I do not think that it is doing the job that the CI-4+ did!

SNOKING

 

[SnoKing]

I just read John Matin's article on oils. So Delco 400 in CI-4+ was a much better oil. BUT, do they make and sell it anymore. All I could find was the new LE CJ-4. SNOKING

 

[SAndreasen]

a freind of mine works at a large mine and they can get dello in c14 in 55 gal. drums only . case ih oil and john deere engine oil is also still the old c14 avalibile in any size jug i would imagine caterpillar and new holland are the same as well

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

OK, everyone has their own "take" on the new CI oils, and there's the latest TDR lead page commentary as well. It seems as though a few eyes are opening concerning the new oils, and the hype concerning their "excellence"...



Just as a comparison piece, and material for those interested in seeing what the old "obsolete" CI4-Plus would do in heavy duty and extended service, I ran my own Delo 400 CI4-Plus out for 10. 000 miles, then had it analyzed, sample sent in a week and a half ago before our last RV trip.



Just got back from that week-long RV trip, and found the results of my analysis had arrived while we were gone. The analysis displayed below is with 10,000 miles on Delo CI4-Plus 15/40, and the sample submitted was immediately after another 500 mile RV tow with lots of mountain towing involved - the sample is on oil that's been in the engine for nearly a year, and a wide mix of driving situations, from empty and around town, heavy towing, and both zero degree winter weather as well as 100 plus degree summer use. Several Frantz cartridge changes were involved, and about a quart of makeup oil added to compensate for what the filter element absorbed - there was no actual oil used (consumed) by the engine.



Here's the report, showing the first 5000 miles on the oil, then 10,000 miles on that same oil - the engine has about 55K miles on it:



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And here's the particle count on that same oil:



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This is what I would consider as about average for this oil, my bypass filter setup, and my specific engine - not a "spectacular" report - but a good one on an engine that is now pretty well seated in and worked pretty hard at times in RV towing in mountainous terrain.



The 2 questions to be addressed here are, how will this report compare with others using different bypass setups at similar miles and usage - and how will it compare with the new CJ series of oils that we're having forced upon us?



Every owner is entitled to their own choice and opinion - MINE is that I'm very happy to be using the "old, obsolete" Delo CI4-Plus lube, and the Frantz bypass filter!

 

[Cal Brewin]

I am not going to say CJ-4 is better than CI-4+, that would be absurd. However, my truck has had good results from UOA on 7,000+ mile OCI's. On this report, the last 2 entries are w/ Rotella T CJ-4 15w40. The previous 2 were Delo CI-4+, and factory fill. There was one other sample, but was lost in the mail(surprised? no). One thing you may try, I will now also, on the last test, I had added 1 qt of CI-4+ Delo I had left over, and result was slightly elevated phosphorous and zinc. I found 17 qts of the CI4+ delo and will use it as adds when changing the Frantz. Can't hurt.



Bob Is The Oil Guy: 06 Dodge 5. 9L CTD w/7,029 on Rotella T 15w40 CJ-4

 

[fox]

It is highly possible the CJ-4 oil is sealing the rings better, thus the oil stays cleaner.

 

[John - K5AWO]

I would be interested to see how your oil would have tested w/o the bypass filter. I don't have one right now, and think I will be ordering soon.

 

[flattracker]

Gary those are decent numbers but consistent with what I'm getting on 10,000 mi. changes with just delo and stratapore filters

My chrome and insoluble numbers run less than half of yours but you are running more fuel than I am.

To each his own but I never quite understood why someone would double the horsepower on their engine and then go to the trouble and expense of running a bypass filter to try to make it last longer.

I love high performance but the heat and pressure involved in pulling 1000 lbs. of torque out of a 360 cu. in. engine will kill it long before the difference between 10 micron filtration and 2 micron filtration will ever be seen.

With decent maintenance these engines will go 500,000 miles before overhaul on factory filters and name brand oil.

your truck has 55,000 miles on it and is at least 5 years old, you gonna drive it for fifty years?

Not meaning to flame you but everyone is jumping on the cj oil is crap bandwagon without seeing an hard evidence to back it up.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gary those are decent numbers but consistent with what I'm getting on 10,000 mi. changes with just delo and stratapore filters

My chrome and insoluble numbers run less than half of yours but you are running more fuel than I am.

To each his own but I never quite understood why someone would double the horsepower on their engine and then go to the trouble and expense of running a bypass filter to try to make it last longer.

I love high performance but the heat and pressure involved in pulling 1000 lbs. of torque out of a 360 cu. in. engine will kill it long before the difference between 10 micron filtration and 2 micron filtration will ever be seen.

With decent maintenance these engines will go 500,000 miles before overhaul on factory filters and name brand oil.

your truck has 55,000 miles on it and is at least 5 years old, you gonna drive it for fifty years?

Not meaning to flame you but everyone is jumping on the cj oil is crap bandwagon without seeing an hard evidence to back it up.

I wonder if you have any recent actual analysis reports you like to share with us - I'm always interested in seeing what other owners are seeing with their reports, especially the good ones as yours must be.



WELL, my wear numbers typically run less too, when less towing in mountainous terrain is involved, but the increased fuel and engine load with a harder working engine do take their toll - but that's the reason for the power upgrades, for easier towing in those situations. Even at that, the vast majority of the time and miles, full power is not involved - I'm hardly demanding the full 414 HP and 972 Tq my engine is capable of at all times, but it's sure nice to have it there when I DO want it! :-laf



And turning your logic around, for guys like me who DO spend lots of extra $$$ to increase power substantially - but still want to maximize engine longevity and reliability, why NOT also increase engine protection to help counter the increased loads and wear? After all, just because we increase power doesn't mean we had just as well roll over, play dead - and ACCEPT increased wear without taking the many available steps to somewhat reduce and control it - sorta like saying "no use of wasting GOOD oil for my EXPENSIVE engine with increased power, It's probably just gonna wear out early anyway - so I'll just save my money, and buy CHEAP stuff for it!"



If anything, providing added engine protecting devices to a engine with power enhancements is sort of a no-brainer for those who care about their engines - but want or need more power!



AND, everyone is "jumping on the CJ is crap" bandwagon because evidence is piling up that it IS crap - at least as compared to the reduced wear and increased additives of the CI stuff it replaces...

 

[kscheffler]

Check the marine services they will have 5 gallon buckets of the the CI4 I just purchased 5 buckets this weekend at Covich and Williams in Seattle. Call around you will find some

 

[SnoKing]

It is highly possible the CJ-4 oil is sealing the rings better, thus the oil stays cleaner.

Like right, the B4-150's is the boat at 1600 hours and 10. 5 years of use all of a sudden got tighter.



Well the oil now has 90 hours on if and is just starting to show a little color.



I still say that his is an improvement that I did not need or want. I have 3 gals of CI-4 + in spares on the boat, it is going in the truck for the fall RV trip and then I will start looking around for some more for the oil change when I return and the fall boat oil change.



THANKS BIG BROTHER!



SNOKING

 

[SnoKing]

Check the marine services they will have 5 gallon buckets of the the CI4 I just purchased 5 buckets this weekend at Covich and Williams in Seattle. Call around you will find some

I just did a web search for Chevron Distributors and emailed the one close by in Sedro Woolley. I will post what they have to say later. SNOKING

 

[SnoKing]

Well, they have 5 gal pales of CI-4+ for 65. 68 with tax. Think I will buy 4 of them. Lady was not sure how much longer this will have it. SNOKNG

 

[SnoKing]

Well, I bought two 5 gal pales. It was interesting taking to them. They do not know how much longer they will be able to get the CI-4+. They also only handle 15PPM diesel and if they deliver to a boat that is what you get.



Bend over and grab your ankles!



SNOKING

 

[kscheffler]

Snoking

Did you get it a Covich? The have it in the bulk tanks and apparently they fill the 5 gallon buckets them selves. The owner said he could get it in bulk for at least the next year. The more I questioned him about it he finally admitted he has no idea. Funny about the 15 ppm when I bought my oil 3 weeks ago they were still selling 300 and 3000 and they told me that it would be available for a "long time". Don't think three weeks is a long time. Same thing is going to happen for the CI oil you watch. Wish I had some empty buckets I would pick up more.

 

[SnoKing]

Did you get it a Covich? The have it in the bulk tanks and apparently they fill the 5 gallon buckets them selves. The owner said he could get it in bulk for at least the next year. The more I questioned him about it he finally admitted he has no idea. Funny about the 15 ppm when I bought my oil 3 weeks ago they were still selling 300 and 3000 and they told me that it would be available for a "long time". Don't think three weeks is a long time. Same thing is going to happen for the CI oil you watch. Wish I had some empty buckets I would pick up more.

I went to the Chevron Distributor in Sedro Woolley. SNOKING

 

[SnoKing]

It appears that there is going to be a market for a good can of additive that would spruce up an oil like Delo 400 LE to the old CI-4+ standard for us pre-2007. 5 guys and gals. As it appears as though the old stuff is going away fast.



I guess I will hang onto the two 5 gal pales and hopefully be able to refill them at a distributor.



I read the oil article again last night in the recent TDR mag and it does not look good for CJ-4 oils.



SNOKING

 

[MarkMiles]

CI-4+ vs CJ-4

Has anyone had a chance to make it by their local Cummins shop and get the straight scoop on the use of the CJ-4 oils in the older engines? It seems obvious from the evaluation of the oils in the article that the CI-4+ oils are superior, but would we ever notice a difference in actual service? Can we offset the lower detergent & anti-wear additive content by more frequent oil changes? Personally, I’ve always believed that using good oil was cheap insurance – so I purchased what I could find of the CI-4+ Premium Blue & Delo 400. Once that’s gone, I’ll consider going to a synthetic (pending some input from Cummins).