Here I am

At what point will the $$$ of Diesel Fuel really

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Where will it stop for you?

wow LOW miles

even with diesel prices up like they are, until they are twice regular gas, i am still better off driving my 3500 than my 1500. I drive the CTD 150 miles round trip commute once a week. I was able to work out a telecommuting topion at work.

We do take the wife's V6 mid-size van most places. At 30mpg, its 10mpg more than the CTD and 17 mpg more than my 1500.
 
Unfortunately if we LET the OIL Companies Drill in ANWAR they

Thats true for the blind mice who don't want to open ANWR!



Get your heads out of the sand.



OPEN ANWR! You know; our own lands north of the lower 48.



Read the facts here: anwr.org - Making the Case for ANWR Development



This is what they are not shoving down your throat in the "evening news".



See the real ANWR here: http://www.anwr.org/features/pdfs/realanwr-page1.pdf



will ship it to Japan/China someplace other than the USA!!!!



This is a couple of years old BUT still current



Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - Page updated at 08:05 a. m.



Where would ANWR oil go?



By Warren Cornwall



Seattle Times staff reporter



Alaska Native corporation a lead player for oil on wildlife refuge



Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens stood on the floor of the Senate a month ago and urged his colleagues to support drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Do it to boost our domestic oil supplies, he said. Do it to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.



What Stevens did not mention was this: Alaskan oil could wind up being sold overseas.



The Senate vote, which gave Stevens a 51-49 victory, makes no promise the oil pumped from the wildlife refuge (ANWR) has to be sold to domestic refineries.



Some pro-drilling forces say a final bill could ban refuge oil from going overseas, a restriction contained in an energy bill now before the House that would open ANWR to oil exploration. Such a ban, however, wouldn't apply to other Alaskan oil. And a similar pledge was reversed in the past.



As Congress again considers opening the refuge in a quest for oil, the prospect of exporting Alaskan crude poses a political conundrum for those who say drilling is a way to get more oil to domestic markets.



Detractors have jumped on the issue, charging that claims the refuge must be drilled to satisfy a domestic thirst for energy are hypocritical.



"If we are going to go into a wildlife refuge and drill for oil, at least we should require that we keep whatever oil we produce in the United States for our domestic use," said Sen. Maria Cantwell, the Washington Democrat who led efforts last month to block drilling in the refuge.



While Stevens, a Republican, could not be reached for comment, his spokeswoman Courtney Schikora Boone said that if ANWR is opened up, exporting oil "could happen. "



"But it would not be something we would push for because we consider domestic oil production in the United States to be a national-security issue. We believe our dependence on foreign oil makes us weaker in the world," she said.



In the Senate, a proposal to open the refuge to drilling is contained in a budget resolution, which must be reconciled with the House version. The House, meanwhile, is expected to vote this week on the overall energy bill, which would allow drilling in ANWR.



Even without an export ban, drilling proponents say the talk of exports is an empty political ploy, and that it's highly unlikely there would ever be enough oil to warrant selling Alaskan crude to foreign consumers.



"Talk about exporting ANWR oil to foreign countries is a red herring," said John Katz, head of Alaska's Washington, D. C. , office. "In fact, there's a huge demand on the U. S. West Coast and that's where Alaska oil goes and will go. "



"It's called trade"




Drilling opponents, meanwhile, also leave some parts of the export issue unmentioned.



Much of the oil would likely wind up in West Coast refineries that once consumed far more Alaskan oil than they do now. And while several prominent oil economists were split over the likelihood of Alaskan crude exports, none considered exports a problem.



"It's called trade," said Philip Verleger, an energy analyst who thinks exports are possible.



The debate echoes from three decades ago, when the country was reeling from the Arab oil embargo of 1973.




As the Trans-Alaska Pipeline was authorized that same year to open Alaska's North Slope oil fields, Congress banned exporting the oil amid concerns that it might wind up being shipped overseas while Americans stood in lines at gas stations.



Soon after, oil companies and Alaskan leaders started lobbying to lift the export ban, arguing it threatened to flood West Coast refineries, artificially depressed the price of Alaskan oil and forced oil shipments to parts of the U. S. that lay much farther from Alaska than Asian ports.




The ban was overturned in 1995, an effort led by Alaska's congressional delegation, including Rep. Don Young and Stevens.



Stevens at the time hailed the decision as a "great victory for Alaska" that would encourage further oil development and create more jobs.



"This ban is unconstitutional and unjust. Lifting the ban would mean Alaska could sell its oil on the world market, which would increase state revenues by as much as $700 million," he said in a press release.



The end to the export ban never produced the big jump in foreign shipments some predicted, though it did boost prices for Alaskan oil, according to a report from the U. S. General Accounting Office.



Just 4 percent of North Slope oil trickled to Asia between 1996 and 2000, before the flow shut off almost entirely. Since then, the only export was a single tanker in 2004, which delivered a load of oil to China en route to getting repaired at an Asian port.



The reason is that Alaskan oil fields aren't gushing crude as they once did. Alaskan oil production was cut in half between the 1988 peak and 2000. Now West Coast refineries soak up nearly every drop, according to data from the federal Energy Information Administration.



Washington is one of the major destination points for that oil. A string of refineries near Anacortes and Bellingham rely on Alaska for more than 90 percent of their crude oil, according to a 2004 report from the Seattle and Pierce County chambers of commerce.





Debate renewed



The prospect of another surge of Alaskan oil has revived the export debate, though this time backers of drilling aren't talking about exporting oil.



If the refuge is opened to drilling, it could raise Alaskan oil production from roughly 908,000 barrels of oil a day in 2004 to between 1. 1 million and 2. 1 million barrels per day in 2025, according to Energy Information Administration estimates.



A glut of Alaskan oil could be more than West Coast refineries can use, said Verleger, a senior fellow for the Institute for International Economics in Washington, D. C.



At their 1991 peak, West Coast refineries used 1. 44 million barrels of Alaskan oil a day. While refineries have increased overall production since then, at this point it's not enough to process the potential increase in Alaskan crude if ANWR is opened.



"It is possible if they were to find a lot of oil in ANWR — and once they start drilling there they may move outside that little area — that the oil couldn't go to any place in the United States," Verleger said.



That could change if refineries make Alaskan oil a much larger percentage of their overall crude-oil supplies, or if refineries are expanded by the 2020s, when oil production from the refuge could peak if it's opened soon.



Sam Van Vactor, a Portland-based energy consultant who studies the West Coast oil market, said oil discoveries in the refuge probably wouldn't be big enough to trigger pressure for exports.



Even with an export ban on refuge oil, Alaskan oil could still be sold overseas. If the refuge oil were to meet all the domestic needs of West Coast markets, producers could put oil extracted from other North Slope oil fields that aren't subject to an export ban on tankers bound for Asia, Van Vactor said.



But he saw little reason for concern: Because oil is traded around the globe, the U. S. is in a better strategic position if it has more oil to trade, Van Vactor said.



"The companies don't like to argue this, I think, because they seem to think the American public doesn't understand economics very well. So they use these security and supply arguments that don't really make a lot of sense," Van Vactor said.



Cantwell countered that oil exports from Alaska, even if they don't trouble economists, do nothing to reduce U. S. reliance on a global petroleum network.



"If you're thinking about security, this isn't going to answer the question," she said. "The best solution is to get off of dependence on fossil fuels in general. "



Katz, the Alaska lobbyist, said that while he considered exports a nonissue, they could make sense in economic terms.



"The problem is that in political terms it takes eight seconds to say, 'Well, they're exporting Alaskan oil abroad. ' And it takes a long time to explain how oil is fungible and an export in one place might lead to an import in another place. "
 
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We talk about our Diesel fuel guzzling trucks, sure we are paying 3. 00+ a gallon but most of us are getting 20+ MPG try that with a 3/4 ton gas powered truck. Check out the Toyota Tundra, or some of those nice foriegn SUVs that are getting 14 MPG!

I absolutly agree that we are getting ripped off by the BIG oil companies, they don't care about our economy, they care about the green in their pockets. I get these emails all the time "boycott Exxon, BP, Blah Blah Blah, sure, does anyone listen??? No we will pay 5. 00 a gallon because most of us have just given up on trying to fix anything in this country. If us, as the people, would just stand up and say this is enough and tell our Congressmen and Senators that we will vote them out if they don't fix it what do you all think would happen???

Just my opinion.
 
If us, as the people, would just stand up and say this is enough and tell our Congressmen and Senators that we will vote them out if they don't fix it what do you all think would happen???

Just my opinion.



Uh Yeh I remember voting on prop 187 and then some judge shot it down on his own ideas!! so much for the voters say so!! now look english is the second language!!:mad:



I am going to pull out my 67 dart and drop a late model 318 and overdrive trans into it and drive the heck out of it (should get 20-22mpg)and park the nice new truck till the milage part is fixed.
 
The price of diesel fuel these days has nothing to do with supply/demand. It has to do with keeping gas prices down so people won't get all bent out of shape.

Sticking it to diesel consumers to make up per barrel increases is the lest contraversial way for the oil companies to keep up the profits.

Truckers pass on a fuel surcharge, but people like us bend over and take it in the back side.

With diesel being about $. 75/gal above reg. unleaded and likely to stay that way, I have bought my last diesel car and most likely will never buy a NEW diesel truck.

The economy will take a big hit down the road, and American auto manufactures will take the biggest brunt of this.

My suggestion to all of you is to BUY STOCK IN OIL COMPANIES ... they know that the gas/diesel engine will be legislated out of existance in the next few decades and are making all the $$$ they can now before the jig is up.
 
Ok. I'm going to go out on a thin branch (think limb).



While there might be a finite amount of oil at a given point in time, I think mother nature (earth's processes) keep making crude. The key is not to deplete it faster than mother nature is making it. And I don't think any scientist or group of scientists nows what that formula is.



Think about it. How many earthquakes and volcanoes happen every once in a while. It's a process. Mess with the process - you lose. Adapt with it - you win.



That's just my opinion.
 
"At what point will the $$$ of diesel really get to you?" I guess I am one of the few who do not consider the cost of fuel an issue. It amazes me after reading posts like this that the topic quickly turns to "Big Oil" and politics. The $20,000 that you spent in 2000 on a travel trailer could have bought 2,222 shares of Halliburton which has since split and went back up to $40. Is that trailer worth $175,000 today? Schlumburger and Noble have made similar returns. I reckon a person can look at "Big Oil" as the bad guy or as opportunity. Ed B
 
I heard something on the news that will really get you...

They have decided that they may change the way they get "road tax" from fuel sales. Seems they are losing revenue from everyone recently running out and buying the gas-sipping econoboxes because, guess what, they don't use as much fuel!!!

So they are proposing to tax the general public based on MILES DRIVEN per year!!!! Won't that be nice!!!! Another tax you need to pay yearly!!! So much for the benefit of the econoboxes!!!

steved
 
Two things:

1) I saw Boone Pickens (famous oil man) in a blurb the other day, his 30-second solution to our energy problems was: fast-track nuclear energy for electricity and get it jump-started again; clean up the coal (200+ year supply); and convert nat gas (we have a good bit of it in the good ol' USA) for transportation. Sounded pretty good to me.



2) the post above that said diesel is being priced up to keep gas prices down to keep the masses happy -- that's true, and actually was explained by one of the oil industry analysts a few days ago. He said:



** unexpected maintenance at several refineries this past Spring (which I think was BS -- manufactured outages by the refiners to force prices up, a la Enron and Cali electricity prices a few years ago, but that's another subject)



** then to meet summer gas demand, refiners put all spare capacity on gasoline, depleting diesel stocks



** now converting back to distillates to meet winter fuel oil demand, and guess what gets squeezed -- #2 diesel!!



Sucks. If I hear "unforeseen maintenance and outages" at refineries next Spring I'm gonna go nuts. They've been running these refineries in a similar manner for 100 years, and all of a sudden a bunch of 'em all have unforeseen outages all at the same time?? BS
 
Today, local diesel is at $3. 59 - went up another dime, while gas went up 2 cents to $3. 04. Yeah, the price DOES "get to me", but more because we're being HAD than as if the upward spiral was justified.



Well-heeled Liberals such as the Streisands, O'Donells, Baldwins, etc. , and politicians such as Kennedy and yes, most likely the Clintons, are not particularly concerned to see our fuel costs rise to near European levels - after all, that's what they have long mentioned as a goal for us "spoiled Americans"...



Keep "Politics" out of energy discussions? You'd have to have a headful of sand to not realize that politics and runaway Capitalistic greed are the basic driving reason behind where we are today. Do we really use/waste more energy than we should? Perhaps - but do we really accept and allow the politicians and various Capitalistic forces to administer their own form of "di$cipline" - one that also just happens to enrich THEM in the process? :rolleyes:



In addition to all the above, you have to realize that all thru history and global governments, CONTROL of the peasant masses has been a fundamental cornerstone - it's done with boundaries and controls of many types - from walls and fences to various methods to limit the ability and range of free travel by the masses. Herding populations into tight metropolitan areas where they are most easily supervised and controlled is a main ingredient - and anything that limits the ability of free and easy individual movement fits into that basic goal.



High escalations in the cost of travel is only ONE way that is accomplished, as is evidenced by increasing numbers of our population seriously limiting travel, and the steady movement of squeezing citizens closer to major population areas for work and shopping - JUST AS is common in the European countries some would like us to emulate!



After all, the peons and peasants MUST be corraled and controlled! :rolleyes::mad:
 
Why is it that they are posting the highest profits in history and yet their equipment is so out dated? Hell if I had that much money all would be state of art! Oh yeh forgot about the ceo and their multi milion dollar bonus!!
 
I heard something on the news that will really get you...



They have decided that they may change the way they get "road tax" from fuel sales. Seems they are losing revenue from everyone recently running out and buying the gas-sipping econoboxes because, guess what, they don't use as much fuel!!!



So they are proposing to tax the general public based on MILES DRIVEN per year!!!! Won't that be nice!!!! Another tax you need to pay yearly!!! So much for the benefit of the econoboxes!!!



steved





What a laugh, my speedo just broke today. :-laf



Gary - K7GLD

Keep "Politics" out of energy discussions? You'd have to have a headful of sand to not realize that politics and runaway Capitalistic greed are the basic driving reason behind where we are today. Do we really use/waste more energy than we should? Perhaps - but do we really accept and allow the politicians and various Capitalistic forces to administer their own form of "di$cipline" - one that also just happens to enrich THEM in the process?



I agree except on the statement of "Captalistic greed". Capitalism works everytime it is tried, its when politics get in the way that problems come.
 
Here's why I drive a cummins truck. I average 15,000 miles a year on my truck. My cummins average cost per mile for fuel is $. 15, a gas half ton pickup(which would be large enough for me) would cost $. 25 per mile. At 15,000 miles my diesel saves me $1500. per year. Yes, insurance and registration cost a little more, but the diesel doesn't depreciate as fast as the gas truck will. Obviously the above figures change by what the current fuel prices are.



This is what my head says, at the HEART of the matter. I'll drive any truck I want to because I CAN. :-laf









Also I drive a big, polluting diesel truck just to make the greenie's mad.
 
Get your pitchforks out, that's the only way we'll get the right people responsible for this out of office. Just a matter of when, not if, the american people have had enough.
 
i like the broken speedo except i like knowing the milage of my rig and i write off milage on taxes.



yeah, nukes. what a wonderful idea. when someone in your house commits a crime should your entire house hold pay the price? believe it or not, alot of middle easterns actually value life. thats the kind of crap we stood up against in kuwait.
 
My biggest complaint isn't so much the cost of the #2, its the quality of what they are selling. THIS NEW ULSD IS GARBAGE:mad:



We are paying more money for a inferior product! We may as well all use kero...
 
As the Trans-Alaska Pipeline was authorized that same year to open Alaska's North Slope oil fields, Congress banned exporting the oil amid concerns that it might wind up being shipped overseas while Americans stood in lines at gas stations.



I agree, this is the way it should be.



In addition to all the above, you have to realize that all thru history and global governments, CONTROL of the peasant masses has been a fundamental cornerstone - it's done with boundaries and controls of many types - from walls and fences to various methods to limit the ability and range of free travel by the masses. Herding populations into tight metropolitan areas where they are most easily supervised and controlled is a main ingredient - and anything that limits the ability of free and easy individual movement fits into that basic goal.



It's called CONTROL through government caused caios... A government's way to manipulate a population.
 
Solution. Slow down to 55 MPH mandatory all states. Seen it work once before when most of you guys and gals were shhhhhhettin yellow.
 
Solution. Slow down to 55 MPH mandatory all states. Seen it work once before when most of you guys and gals were shhhhhhettin yellow.



Yep remember it well,don't know how much it helped though. How about the odd/even rationing? the "C" stickers? Long lines around the block? Fights breaking out in line,running out of gas in line? If I recall this 65mph speed limit has only been back 10-12 yrs.
 
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