Question regarding towing a Fifth Wheel

[AClayton]

Thanks again everyone for the replies. There appears to be quite a difference of opinion on whether the 2500 can SAFELY handle a 5'ver of this size or not. Seems like some have done it without any issues and feel comfortable, while others are 180 degrees the other direction. Kind of confusing to say the least, but I do appreciate all the input. Having never towed anything of that size before I don't have any personal experience to fall back on and therefore am placing a lot on what advice I pickup from this forum. This probably isn't the place for this question, so if not please let me know. There are several newer RAM 3500 DRW currently available in the area with prices in the range of 33K to 35K for a 2007 with mileage of 7500 to 14,000. My question is how does the 3rd generation common rail stand in comparison to the 24V 2nd generation cummins as far as problems? Similar problems with the CP3 versus the VP44? Still have to upgrade the lift pump? Because there are so many difference of opinion on whether the 2500 can do the job Safely; I just need to know if trading my truck is worth the extra expense. If there is no doubt that safety is the big issue here and hauling that size of rig with a 2500 is dangerous to not only my family, but others on the road - even after the 2500 would be upgraded and outfitted properly then I guess that is what I really need to know. I hope that makes sense.



Thanks again everyone for all your helpful advice and suggestions on getting me headed on the right road



Gary

Gary - IMO , If you intend to tow predominately flat areas for awhile to get accustomed to your new 5th wheel and just feel it out... I would just stay with what you got. You will know real quick if you feel uncomfortable towing that kind of weight around. If you feel comfortable towing with your truck ,then I would spend money on transmission upgrades and certainly a good exhaust brake and good tires ... both trailer and truck. Some of the other posts stated purchasing a bigger truck or a smaller 5th wheel... The truck is one thing but I know from experience,if your better half picked out the trailer she wanted... . it is then your responsibilty to haul it. Women can't seem to change their minds as well as men!Anyway,just go slow and get used to how it handles and upgrade your vehicle accordingly.



Alan

 

[mberry]

... There are several newer RAM 3500 DRW currently available in the area with prices in the range of 33K to 35K for a 2007 with mileage of 7500 to 14,000. My question is how does the 3rd generation common rail stand in comparison to the 24V 2nd generation cummins as far as problems? Similar problems with the CP3 versus the VP44? Still have to upgrade the lift pump? Because there are so many difference of opinion on whether the 2500 can do the job Safely; I just need to know if trading my truck is worth the extra expense. If there is no doubt that safety is the big issue here and hauling that size of rig with a 2500 is dangerous to not only my family, but others on the road - even after the 2500 would be upgraded and outfitted properly then I guess that is what I really need to know. I hope that makes sense.

Thanks again everyone for all your helpful advice and suggestions on getting me headed on the right road

Gary

For my money and safety's sake, a 3rd Gen pickup is light years ahead of the 2nd Gens. Just the brakes alone are worth it to me when I'm towing. I've towed some heavy trailers and I wouldn't have considered them in my '02 2500. It's not just about spending the money on upgrades to me. It's about the (1st) safety of my family and (2nd) the safety of others.

I personally don't think there are any structural issues with the 2500, but mechanical one's that can't be overcome without significant expense. At that point, a newer tow vehicle might make better sense.

For the differences in opinion of some do and some don't, probably a lot of that has to do with the driver and their experience/comfort level.

If you are looking at anything '05 and newer, the lift pump has been moved to the in-tank module from the factory, others that had lift pumps fail and replaced under warranty were probably retrofitted with the in-tank module. There aren't many problems reported with this setup. I've got 68. 5K miles on my stock lift pump, injectors, CP3 etc and still running great. Not many problems with the CP3. A bad lift pump won't usually kill a CP3 like it did the VP44 since the 3rd gens won't even run without the lift pump like the 2nd Gens would. Read the 3rd Gen forums for much more information. These are my views and opinions only. It's your money and your decision. Hope this helps.

 

[Grizzly]

ABSOLUTELY!



Far too many RV towing drivers wrongly ASSUME that simply because their tow rig can MOVE the load from point "A" to point "B", that's all that is needed - but they fail to recognize the need to safely STOP the load, and be able to take rapid evasive maneuvers in emergency situations as required.



NOR will simply adding heavier load rated tires or springs/air bags make up for other hardware that is stretched beyond intended, SAFE capacity!



Your safety, the safety of your passengers and other travelers around you depend on your common sense and good judgement - don't cheap-out on actual towing capability that properly address ALL elements of your specific load.



The steady, constant message in regards to tow vehicles is:



GET ENOUGH TRUCK FOR THE LOAD!



And THAT includes ALL elements of travel, not just getting it moving - if you aren't able or willing to adjust the tow vehicle to the load, consider adjusting the LOAD to fit the truck!

Gary you hit the nail on the head. Very well said. So far most folks are advising on the truck being too light for the 5er. How about, in this day and age of higher fuel prices, of getting a smaller lighter 5er that can be safely pulled with the 2500 truck gahorn has now. An ideal 5er, in my opinion, is a 24 foot with one slide out. The time has come to start thinking of smaller RV's, not bigger.

 

[gahorn]

Like I said in my earlier post -- not having any background knowledge as to how the vehicle would handle was the whole idea of coming to this forum and asking those with that knowledge & expertise for their helpful advice. My first and foremost goal in this whole ordeal is for my wife and I to be able to go out and enjoy ourselves in retirement. We have both worked our a__ess off putting our kids through college and now it is getting close to our turn. The last thing I want to do is get setup with the wrong towing vehicle & then end up causing either serious injury to ourselves or others. I also don't want to have a "white knuckle experience" every time we take the rig out. I would not have posted and asked for the help of those on this forum with a heck of a lot more knowledge in this area if I wasn't going to be receptive to the responses. I have no problem trading my '01 2500 for a 3500 DRW if that's what the fifth wheel that my wife likes requires in order to be safe. That is what I came here to find out. In fact, that's the whole reason why I joined TDR -- to learn & gain more knowledge about the CTD RAM trucks. I've had the truck for 6+ years, but never really knew much about it until I joined TDR. So, it's not about trying to get off the cheapest - it's about getting the knowledge from people here in order to make the right decision.



Thanks



Gary

 

[icman95]

A WORD OF WARING FROM A COMMERCIAL TRUCK DRIVER:



Gary: I have been towing my 33 ft 5er for 2 years now with my 3500 and fully loaded is as big a trailer as I ever would pull with my truck. Stock power wasn't acceptable to me because the trailer is a toyhauler and with my bike in the back it was a bit heavy for the stock engine. I upgraded the motor and now have enough power to go fast enough to kill everyone around me. This excess power doesn't mean I can pull a bigger trailer. It just means that I can pull mine better. My truck is at its limit for weight and I wouldn't dream of going for more. Here's the WARNING PART:



A friend with an 03 2500 Chevy diesel bought a 38 ft 3 slide trailer about a month ago. He replaced his truck camper with the trailer. It was the first time for him driving anything that big. He figured it would be no problem because he saw how my truck pulled my trailer. In my opinion it was too much trailer for his truck and probably mine too. A week after he bought it he went on vacation and on the way home wrecked it. The combination of too much trailer and no experience caused him to jacknife on an exit ramp. The trailer came around and smashed the back window of his truck showering his 2 year old in the back seat with glass. The pristine truck is now totaled and the trailer is being repair by the insurance company. He freely admits that his lack of experience caused the crash and has vowed to not drive one for sometime. I'm not saying don't get one-not at all. Just don't over do it. Despite the fact that you don't need a commercial driver's license for one of these rigs, it is exactly like driving one. The lack of experience can be overcome with lots of practice around town and in parking lots as well as careful highway use, but if you get too much trailer for your truck you are putting yourself behind the eight ball before you even begin. Just be careful in your choices. AND GET AN EXHAUST BRAKE. This will help beyond anything you can imagine. Whatever you do, have fun with it.



Good luck.

 

[duckcarvr]

Hi Gary take a good look at how you are going to use the 5er. I bought a 27 ft. 5er with a long slide. I wanted to keep it under 30 because a lot of camp grounds limit you to that and even then some i could not get into. even some rv parks may not have a space open for a long rig. i move about, the longest i stay at one place is 4 or 5 days. most of the time just one or two, i travel. If you were going to say tow it to AZ and stay in one spot for weeks or the winter i would get a bigger unit. The biger the rig, the harder to tow. more stress, less fuel miliage, a larger space to park and more awareness of where you are going... ... ... ... ... like once i drove 4 blocks down a dead end sreet. I was lucky there was a house under construction and no one home across the street. even with the 27 ft. 5er i was 42 feet. hope this helps robert

 

[Grizzly]

Gary the best advice I can give you is to start off small. A 38' 5er is very big. Remember, you will have to back it up, you will have to get it under canopies when you stop to refuel, sometimes you will have to make a U turn with it. The smaller it is, the easier it is to handle. The biggest mistake people make with a first time purchase is to get a unit that is too big. Start small, say a 24'. As you gain experience you can upgrade to a larger unit and a larger truck. Remember bigger means more weight. More weight means more fuel. It all depends on what you are going to use the 5er for, but to me a 24' with one slide out is perfect. I know, I settled for a 27' 5er. That was the smallest unit I could get with 16" wheels and a onboard generator.



You're doing the right thing by seeking advice from those with more experience towing 5th wheels.

 

[DonTX]

I suppose what you are used to figures in as well. I used to haul house trailers for a living, them big old 14 by 80 foot ones, then I drove my Kenworth W900 all over the USA pulling a 53 foot by 102 wide dry van, then converted an old highway bus to a luxury motorhome (40 foot job pulling a car) around the country. To me pulling my "little" 35ft fifth wheel with a little pickup seems like childs play. I have not yet encountered any parks I could not fit into.

 

[gahorn]

Iceman, Duckcarvr, Grizzly -- Thanks guys for the great advice. It is greatly appreciated and has opened my mind up to a whole lot of things that I just didn't realize. This type of helpful advice was exactly what I'm looking for by posting. TDR members who have experienced things, learned from it; and are willing to pass it on as helpful information to those of us that are not as knowledgeable in that particular area. Since the actual purchase of the fifth wheel is several months or more away; this gives my wife and I plenty of time to talk, research, and better plan this whole thing out. If anyone else has any other helpful pieces of information to add to all the other good advice -- by all means feel free.



Thanks a lot for everyone's time and patience with all the questions.



Gary

 

[gahorn]

Add on question to the above post:



I know there ill be varied opinions here -- which transmission is best for towing & why do you feel that way -- Manual or auto?



Thanks



Gary

 

[AMink]

I'll reiterate what has been noted before, though I pull a tt and never have pulled a 5er. We started with a 25 ft, now have one that is about 32 overall. I'm glad I started smaller. The few years we had that one were the learning curve. Ask you dealer this question-Will my truck pull this trailer. He will say absolutely, you have a Cummins! Now ask, will my truck pull this trailer legally? That's when it gets fun! My feeling is that we are going to see a crackdown on overweigth rigs in the not-to-far future. It is a revenue source. I see jacked up Chevy 2500's pulling 38-40' triple axle toy haulers all the time. Can they do it? Yep. Are the big tires and rims and other suspension parts rated for it? Probably not. I know that overloading these trucks is common and no big deal. But there is a point that overloading becomes less safe.



If it were me, I'd be working the new truck to go with the trailer angle. If it's just you and Mrs. , you might even look at one of the small Freightliner type trucks, or a 4500-5500 chassis cab. That would solve your weight concerns, get you in a new truck, and be super safe doing it! It's a win-win, except for the old wallet. On the other hand, you can claim you're jumpstarting the economy!:-laf We thank you for your efforts. Oo.

 

[Grizzly]

Iceman, Duckcarvr, Grizzly -- Thanks guys for the great advice. It is greatly appreciated and has opened my mind up to a whole lot of things that I just didn't realize. This type of helpful advice was exactly what I'm looking for by posting. TDR members who have experienced things, learned from it; and are willing to pass it on as helpful information to those of us that are not as knowledgeable in that particular area. Since the actual purchase of the fifth wheel is several months or more away; this gives my wife and I plenty of time to talk, research, and better plan this whole thing out. If anyone else has any other helpful pieces of information to add to all the other good advice -- by all means feel free.

Thanks a lot for everyone's time and patience with all the questions.

Gary

You're more than welcome. Always feel free to ask anything you want. I'm sure someone here will have a good answer. I know you also get a lot of garbage advise at times. It's up to you to swift through all the replied and pick out the ones you want. I can't stress enough to start small and gradually upgrade when you feel confident to do so.

 

[icman95]

Add on question to the above post:



I know there ill be varied opinions here -- which transmission is best for towing & why do you feel that way -- Manual or auto?



Thanks



Gary

Well, that's like going into a bar and asking the crowd Bud or Miller, import or domestic. Everyone will give you a different answer and each one will be right for that person. I personally like stick because I feel it gives more control, slightly better fuel mileage-perhaps 1/2 mpg which may not be noticeable to most people, but I like to think it works that way-and, if you're nice to your clutch, it will probably prove a bit more reliable than auto. The downsides are shifting in traffic jams and having to be nice to your clutch. In that case you take the good with the bad. Put up with shifting in traffic for the perceived benefits of the stick.



Autos are great in traffic, but the transmission fluid heats up a bit while towing, so you have to make sure to not overheat it. A lot of guys install a transmission temp gauge for this. You can add synthetic fluid that will withstand more abuse. Dodge recommends changing the auto transmission fluid and filter at regular intervals. This is something you don't have to do on a stick. If memory serves, the manual says if the fluid in a stick isn't low, don't worry about it. I think I would change it every so often anyway, but I haven't yet in mine. I actually have changed all my fluids to Amsoil synthetic except that one and will be doing so soon. Have the fluid, just have to find time to do it.



Also, stick is more fun but then again that's a personal choice. I thinks it's very helpful when towing to slow down. You can use the downshifts to slow the rig. I know you can do this with an auto, but it seems to work better with a stick.



Good luck. You have one of the greatest advantages when shopping for stuff like this-time to do your homework. You seem to be using it well.

 

[gahorn]

Thanks again everyone for all your helpful advice -- I'll let you know how this turns out



Gary

 

[DonTX]

I am a strong proponent of trying out combos, I have had quite a few people drive mine, to give them a "feel" for what they might be getting into. Don't be afraid to ask, the most someone can say is no, and if the owner is happy with his outfit, he is happy to show it off to you. .

 

[MMeilicke]

A lot of thoughts here folks. But this issue of weight is not complicated. You are or not over weight. Period. To determine what you can pull get the weight specs on your truck. Buy a 5th wheel that fits the specs. Done deal.

I am a full time RV'er. I have traded perfectly good trucks because I bought heavier 5th wheels. I believe in using a truck as the manufacture intended it to be used. But if you don't want to do that, then roll the dice and be prepared to pay the price if you lose.

 

[Wiredawg]

Just saw the thread and thought I would add my two cents worth: I started out w/ a 7K lb 25 ft TT and 8 years ago purchsed a 13K lb dy/17K lb loaded triple slide 36' Travel Supreme 5er. I had never pulled a 5er. I bought this big because I lived in it the last 6 1/2 years while in the AF. For weekend use and shorter excursions, a smaller unit will work.



As I pulled out of the RV dealer, I was very cautious and paid close attention to its turning and stopping characteristics. I double and triple following distance, drive w/ lights on and turn wide. Watch how 18-wheelers do it. Manuevering in tight places is always slow and in RV parks my wife is spotter.



all the discussion has been covered about weights, tow rigs so my comments are this: Figure out what you want, how you want to use it and go for it. Starting out small, IMHO, is not as important as starting out (and staying) careful. Final note as previously mentioned: Most important towin accessory I installed is the exhaust brake.



Suggestion: There is a light weight luxury 5er made by Carriage that might work for you: Carriage RV - Quality Fifth-Wheel RV's



The Domani is about 10,000 lbs dry weight and is very nice.



Hope you figure it out and hope you share you final decision with us.



Happy trails, Wiredawg

 

[DonTX]

That MAY be good advice, but seldom followed. I live in the lower Rio Grande Valley, where all those Winter Texans flock from up north. I have a lot of fun challenging RV'ers that they are overweight. Rarely does one actually have a truck that is capable of carrying the weight, the weight they have carried for years on that same truck without mishap. Most are dumbstruck when I have them pull out their owners manual or look at the sticker. I am not advocating doing that, just telling you that many do and get by just fine. I am over on my own truck and trailer by a bit, it weighs in with fuel, water, diesel and a weiner dog at just about 20k lbs, but those figures in the books are not there for safety reasons.

A lot of thoughts here folks. But this issue of weight is not complicated. You are or not over weight. Period. To determine what you can pull get the weight specs on your truck. Buy a 5th wheel that fits the specs. Done deal.



I am a full time RV'er. I have traded perfectly good trucks because I bought heavier 5th wheels. I believe in using a truck as the manufacture intended it to be used. But if you don't want to do that, then roll the dice and be prepared to pay the price if you lose.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

but those figures in the books are not there for safety reasons.

I pretty much disagree with that assumption - those manufacturer numbers ARE there for a combination of liability AND safety reasons - probably based upon specific SAE specifications and recommendations. The manufacturer has to use SOME established and recognized basis for published load limits - and IF those sources are IGNORED by the maker, it leaves them legally liable for potential resulting death and destruction.



IF the manufacturer isn't willing to gamble, placing HIS future in jeopardy by recommending overloading, why would *I*?

 

[DonTX]

With your belief, don't you find it rather strange that our own National Highway Traffic SAFETY Administration (NHTSA) don't give a flip about those numbers? Not even the local highway patrol which is looking hard for revenue seems to agree with you. They are into every other part of our highway life, but not that one. I think it is mainly CYA stuff for the manufacturer, largely motivated by repair costs.

However, that said, my friends from Canada claim that Canada DOES enforce those numbers. Go figure.

I pretty much disagree with that assumption - those manufacturer numbers ARE there for a combination of liability AND safety reasons - probably based upon specific SAE specifications and recommendations. The manufacturer has to use SOME established and recognized basis for published load limits - and IF those sources are IGNORED by the maker, it leaves them legally liable for potential resulting death and destruction.



IF the manufacturer isn't willing to gamble, placing HIS future in jeopardy by recommending overloading, why would *I*?