Looking for advice

[Redmega06]

Well we will see this afternoon if anything changes but I get the feeling that they are just going to try me and see if I will take this to court. I am going to go and use this meeting as an evidence gathering session so that I may hopefully plead my case at a later date. I just can't get over that they don't understand that we the enthusiasts do more to make a good name for them than anyone else and all you get is a slap in the face.

 

[MA2LA]

I feel for you I'm fighting with my dealer right now over my warranty. I know yes I have modified it but I want to know exactly what they saw in the ecm to pull my warranty.

 

[Redmega06]

MA2LA if you don't mind me asking what was it that you took it to them look at.

 

[Redmega06]

Ok just got back from another meeting. To my amazment I was told that their is not any paperwork and that there was just a verbal and that this was common practice. I just can't believe that Chrysler would not cover their own butts.



I got to look at the inside of the air cleaner and wow I was even inpressed with how clean it looked. Looked like the day I took it out of the box. you could see yourself in the plastic in the inside of the filter.



As I thought I got no more info but maybe got somone more important attention. This whole process has got me at a loss for words. I just sit in amazment at the lack of information but if I took it in for a service I would get three pages explaining how they changed the oil but not one to justify condeming a $9,000 short block (materials only).

 

[EArp]

I bet if you play hardball and collect your evidence and an attorney they might consider changing their tune. Best of luck to you and hope everything will work out.

 

[JimB1]

The less party #1 (MoCo) says for the record, the less party #2 (you) can say on rebuttal.



Called by many names "stonewalling" is 1st level "go to" denial strategy.



Ball's in your court to find a way to cause "movement" on the issue.

 

[sag2]

Have you and your brother in law looked at the engine? I still have to ask what does it look like. I get the feeling your being just as vague as the dealer in this case. There are specific questions and answers that will lead to the most likely cause. I asked some of those questions earlier but they were never answered. If the air filter did not do its job the "good" cylinders will not have a clearly visible cross hatch left in them. Engine cylinders that had good air filtration will still look brand new at 100,000 miles. The "bad" cylinders may have just got dusted by more coarse material than the "good" ones. Or perhaps you have a combination of dusting and fuel contamination.

Most of the cases I read about here are denied before they even look at the failed parts. In this case it sounds like the dealer pulled it apart and then made a determination based on what they see. I don't want to see anyone treated unfairly, but in this case the lack of quality information has me more on the side of the dealer. Post some photos and some answers to the question you have asked, and then it might be easier to second guess the situation. Good luck in any case.

 

[KHaines]

You have a chip on it? You are your own warranty station. You want to play than you hae to pay.

 

[Redmega06]

Yes we have looked at the engine and that is our complaint because they are not giving a reason as to the failure of the bearings. The entire intake system looks as if it just came out of the box. As for the block it has a few visible vertical scratches yes damaged but not extreme. Like I have said previously I am not looking to get a freebie just want fairness. I just wish that I could publish recordings of meetings to which you could hear at how nobody from chrylser wants to address the problem about the failed bearings. All anyone wants to talk about is the scoring in the cylinders that was a problem caused by bearing failure. I understand that some reading this feel that I may be getting what I deserve for having the products I have but trust me that when I say what they are trying to pull could happen to anyone even if all you have changed is the tires. I have been told to my face that no matter what I say or prove that nothing is going to reverse their decision. They have literally decided that they can and will do what ever they want and no one can stop them. With no way to confront them with the facts and make them prove their case or atleast let you prove yours they are unstoppable. Trust me I never thought reading these stories that I would ever be in this position and those close to me and understand first hand what is going on feel just as wronged as myself. If I don't explain myself well enough I apologize.

 

[KHaines]

Why did you delete your signature? Trying to hid something? Is there more your trying to hid? There are 2 sides to every story. I am sure the have good reason to deny warranty.

 

[MPerez]

Why did you delete your signature? Trying to hid something? Is there more your trying to hid? There are 2 sides to every story. I am sure the have good reason to deny warranty.

He didn't delete his signature, the system itself only shows signatures on the first post for each person, then on subsequent replies it doesn't show it again.



IF he'd tried to hide his sig, he'd have edited his original to delete it there too.



Some people always want to assume the worst about others. And like to jump to conclusions on their own faulty estimation.



Meanwhile...



The second side is that a good reason to deny a warranty for many dealers is to avoid being paid the minimum wage for the job that the manufacturer is willing to pay and that is rarely the amount the dealer can charge a retail customer for their shop time. And for many dealers any excuse is good unless they're called on it.



Look at it this way, we (the dealer) get $40 hourly for warranty work and the parts are paid for by Dodge at cost. OR, we charge the customer for the repair at flat rate book for the job, $80 an hour and he pays list for the part (cost plus 40% or more often).



What incentive does the dealer have to do the work on warranty repairs IF they can find an excuse to deny? For the record the number listed above are pulled out of thin air, your dealer may vary.



Often you must make the district (or even higher up) representative get involved to get the treatment you are supposed to be accorded by the original warranty.



My suggestion is to contact the district rep which is your right, and if that doesn't get results (which I suspect it will) get an attorney who specializes in this issue. Also contact AFE since the dealer seems to be claiming that their filter caused the issue.



Take pictures of everything. Record everything. Get full names and times of conversations, take notes.



Good luck.

 

[100 Proof]

I know I'm jumping in late here, but any chance you could pull an oil sample and have it analyzed? The results could go a long way toward demonstarting what the airfilter was doing.



100 Proof

 

[Redmega06]

No Oil I went into this with a little to much faith in Chrysler and didn't cover my butt. When I asked the dealer if they had taken a sample they said it was against policy. I guess that smoking gun for both parties made it to the bottom of the river.



MPerez it is the dearlerships contention that the district rep is the one that voided it. I would like to talk to him personally but was told that it wasn't his job or my right.



KHaines: All I want is he be a stand up guy and come and discuss this with me and show me the cause and effect. That is all I am asking if he could be man enough to back up his side of this story I would take my medicine and truck and go away. Why do I get the feeling that you are personally invovled in this fight.

 

[sag2]

He didn't delete his signature, the system itself only shows signatures on the first post for each person, then on subsequent replies it doesn't show it again.



IF he'd tried to hide his sig, he'd have edited his original to delete it there too.



Some people always want to assume the worst about others. And like to jump to conclusions on their own faulty estimation.



Meanwhile...



The second side is that a good reason to deny a warranty for many dealers is to avoid being paid the minimum wage for the job that the manufacturer is willing to pay and that is rarely the amount the dealer can charge a retail customer for their shop time. And for many dealers any excuse is good unless they're called on it.



Look at it this way, we (the dealer) get $40 hourly for warranty work and the parts are paid for by Dodge at cost. OR, we charge the customer for the repair at flat rate book for the job, $80 an hour and he pays list for the part (cost plus 40% or more often).



What incentive does the dealer have to do the work on warranty repairs IF they can find an excuse to deny? For the record the number listed above are pulled out of thin air, your dealer may vary.



Often you must make the district (or even higher up) representative get involved to get the treatment you are supposed to be accorded by the original warranty.



My suggestion is to contact the district rep which is your right, and if that doesn't get results (which I suspect it will) get an attorney who specializes in this issue. Also contact AFE since the dealer seems to be claiming that their filter caused the issue.



Take pictures of everything. Record everything. Get full names and times of conversations, take notes.



Good luck.

Don't know where your from, but I Googled Bennett CO and it is not that far from Denver. I suspect Denver labor rates are not as high as here in Central California, but the retail rates are probably at least $80. 00/hr. So for a warranty repair to replace this engine the dealer is going to be paid about $1000 for labor, and 40% markup on the parts for another $2500 gross profit. That $3500 profit for the warranty repair is far from free, and trust me, dealers don't send work like that away, especially in todays economic climate. And the dealers here are paid well over $100/hr for ALL warranty work, and get the same 40% parts markup.

 

[sag2]

Yes we have looked at the engine and that is our complaint because they are not giving a reason as to the failure of the bearings. The entire intake system looks as if it just came out of the box. As for the block it has a few visible vertical scratches yes damaged but not extreme. Like I have said previously I am not looking to get a freebie just want fairness. I just wish that I could publish recordings of meetings to which you could hear at how nobody from chrylser wants to address the problem about the failed bearings. All anyone wants to talk about is the scoring in the cylinders that was a problem caused by bearing failure. I understand that some reading this feel that I may be getting what I deserve for having the products I have but trust me that when I say what they are trying to pull could happen to anyone even if all you have changed is the tires. I have been told to my face that no matter what I say or prove that nothing is going to reverse their decision. They have literally decided that they can and will do what ever they want and no one can stop them. With no way to confront them with the facts and make them prove their case or atleast let you prove yours they are unstoppable. Trust me I never thought reading these stories that I would ever be in this position and those close to me and understand first hand what is going on feel just as wronged as myself. If I don't explain myself well enough I apologize.

What do the bearings look like? Some scratches or are they pounded out and discolored? Are they all the same, or just several bad and the rest good. Cummins bearings that are supplied good quality clean oil are just like cylinders, they should have some minor wear and scratches, but could be reused with 100,000 miles.

These are the only bearings I had laying around, but for reference these are out of a 75,000 mile Neon with regular oil and filter changes. You can see they could be reused if necessary.

 

[Redmega06]

I have only seen the main bearing for #4 and it only has wear to one side and does not go all of the way across. No discoloration at all. Defenitly not a usual wear and even the dealer agrees on that.

 

[DPKetchum]

Wow everyone has this misconception that dealers avoid warranty work. The three I worked in for 25 years sure didn't. We didn't care if it was ALL warranty work. Just get the who is and who isn't paying outa our hair. 40% markup on parts and within a few bucks of retail labor. The dealer that has the truck in question I'm sure would rather be fixing it instead of all the talk thats been going on about it. To heck with the AFE air filter,its got a fueling box. That gives the factory the out time after time. If you really wanted coverage the truck should have been put back stock. At least the mods wouldn't have been pliant. You play you pay. This same scenario has been hashed out on TDR since 1993 many many times.

 

[KHaines]

My thoughts exactly. You said it better than I did. Lets say they deny warranty. Than the customer is free to take it away to another shop. The dealer dosn't make anything. The labor rate for warranty work & customer pay is closer than most realize.

My point to regmega06 is that waranty expired when the chip was added. If he doesn't want the dealer to do the work(and charge him) than he should take it somewhere else. Give up the fight for waranty.

Wow everyone has this misconception that dealers avoid warranty work. The three I worked in for 25 years sure didn't. We didn't care if it was ALL warranty work. Just get the who is and who isn't paying outa our hair. 40% markup on parts and within a few bucks of retail labor. The dealer that has the truck in question I'm sure would rather be fixing it instead of all the talk thats been going on about it. To heck with the AFE air filter,its got a fueling box. That gives the factory the out time after time. If you really wanted coverage the truck should have been put back stock. At least the mods wouldn't have been pliant. You play you pay. This same scenario has been hashed out on TDR since 1993 many many times.

 

[KHaines]

Not sure you right. Look at my sig. Its there on all posts I made in this thread.



Why should the honest people pay for the dishonost people trying to take advantage on warranty when they have no right to?

He didn't delete his signature, the system itself only shows signatures on the first post for each person, then on subsequent replies it doesn't show it again.

On edit

This post does not have my sig. Not sure why, but my others did. Maybe it has something to do with # of posts or number of post in a day???

 

[DPKetchum]

If you post in a thread the signature does not show on every post. The first one yes then it drops off. All is cool with your signature. But I just noticed mine shows on my posts? Ah heck the system is working ok. It will take a moderator to explain.