3500 Vs 4500/5500

[RSchwarzli]

What exactly are the differances between the 3500 and 4500/5500 cousins? Is the frame, suspension, etc beefed up, or are they basically a rebadged 3500?



Thanks!



Robert

 

[HBarlow]

What exactly are the differances between the 3500 and 4500/5500 cousins? Is the frame, suspension, etc beefed up, or are they basically a rebadged 3500?



Thanks!



Robert

This question has already been answered here.



A 3500 looks just like a 4500/5500 when parked side to side but the frame of the bigger trucks is slightly thicker metal and they have slightly taller frame rails on the class 4 and 5. The heavier trucks have 19. 5" wheels/tires, larger brakes, much larger and stiffer springs, and a 76 mph speed governor. The class 4/5 also use a larger, heavier differential as well. And last, the tow hooks are welded on the frame of a 4500/5500 but bolted to the frame of a 3500.



All three use the identical engine and transmission. I own a 3500 and am pleased with it. It is a lot more truck than a 3500 dually pickup.



I started out planning to buy a 4500. It only took a couple of test drives in one to change my mind. IMO a 4500/5500 is not acceptable as a daily driver when unloaded. As a heavily loaded work truck they would probably be fine. Too bad air suspension is not offered.

 

[TAbbott]

In additon to what Harvey said, the engines in the Chassis cabs are rated differently than in the pickups. They don't get the full 350 hp and 650 torque that the lower rated (pickup) models do.

 

[HBarlow]

I assumed the original poster was inquiring about cab and chassis trucks only.



The 3500 pickup is very different from the 3500 cab and chassis.



As TAbbott wrote above the C&C engines are downrated, probably because it was assumed that company drivers would be operating them more than owners.



The frames of a C&C are stiffer and flat behind the cab and a standard 34" width. The suspension, front and rear, is very different. The front suspension of a C&C is a solid axle identical to 4x4s but without a differential or drive axles and has recirculating ball steering box rather than rack and pinion. The rear suspension is multiple stiffer leafs but same differential.

 

[RSchwarzli]

Thanks guys! Sorry for posting this, I did not know it was already posted!



Robert

 

[RVTRKN]

Thats OK, the only dumb question, is the one you don't ask.

 

[SNiebaum]

As TAbbott wrote above the C&C engines are downrated, probably because it was assumed that company drivers would be operating them more than owners.

They also have a different power rating because of the emissions classification they are in. It's rumored(and probably likely) that to meet the 2010 emissions regs for their segment, urea injection will appear in the C&C trucks... .

 

[CUMMINZ]

Compare the differences of 3500/4500/5500. :-laf

Look at bottom of page.



Click here.

 

[jelag]

The 5500 has a new automatic available in that truck... Its an Aisan automatic and has been designed to interface with the Engine ECM and the exhaust brake... Its said to used in the MB mid range trucks and we are very happy with it to date... .

We run our 5500 at close to GVW of 19500 95% of the time... it now has something like 30K miles I'm guessing... . its never here but out working... .

It rides stiff like it has no suspension without a load and the rear end sinks more than we'd like when loaded... so we added a set of air bags to level the load...

We replaced a 2000 F550 and the 08 gets close to 3/4 - 1 MPG better than the F550 ever did... we expect it to run the same 500K miles that the F550 ran but without the high cost of engine repairs we had with the F550...

We were happy to see the huge tie rod ends, ball joints and other items we don't have on our 3500 duallys... .

My best guess is that this truck will not see Urea injection as mentioned above... you might see the same engine in a Chevy, Sterling, or Ford in the same or larger weight class with the urea injection but I don't think Dodge will go that route... . at this point its not something that a normal guy who would buy this truck would want to fuss with... . Just my thoughts... .

We have not seen this truck go through a regen or have had any codes other than a couple of failed parts..... we see nothing on the overhead about regen but this is a highway truck and I'm sure its doing it... . just not when we can see it... one of the key things we set out to do was to cut the idle time in half from the F550 and are looking at a fast idle switch that can be programed into the ECM for fast idle to support a PTO... . we think that the fast idle circuit when functional will ad in winter warm up and AC time in the summer... .

We do see -20*F here in WA and ID where this truck runs and when we expect to see 0*F or below its either parked in the shop or plugged in for the night, like our other trucks. .

We are pleased to say the least... . at this point... .

BTW to date we have had the change oil light come on once at 3500 miles... and we did the service... . to date, we've now stretched the service to 10K miles from 7500 and are waiting to see if we'll make it to the 10K before the light comes on... on our 3500's we'd do the service between 6K and 7K based on when the truck is back to the shop..... our 04 3500 now has 260K and runs fine...

 

[carson6]

I heard....

The warranty is better on the 3500's

 

[RVTRKN]

one of the key things we set out to do was to cut the idle time in half from the F550 and are looking at a fast idle switch that can be programed into the ECM for fast idle to support a PTO... . we think that the fast idle circuit when functional will ad in winter warm up and AC time in the summer...

jelag: You should have high idle feature in your ECM and a tech can enable it for you, I know because I did on my 3500 C&C and did not know of it at first. It is great when warming truck in AM, no PTO at this time but it's coming soon. It does require cruise control I believe.

 

[jelag]

RVTRKN

Your right, I have the process in front of me... . just need to have it done...

The 5500 has a set of connections you just put a switch between the leads... you can have your choice of 2 PTO speeds... . Its already turned on... .

The key is. . I can't find the wiring harness. . the truck came with a 20 page book and where the book says the harness is, its not there... . the upfitters manual... . I can only assume that the manual was written pre production... .

 

[caddo_diesel_fan]

I hate to resurrect this discussion, but thought it better to do so as opposed to starting a new thread.



My question relates to the emissions system on the cab and chassis models vs the pickup models. It is my understanding that the C&C's do not have the NOX3 catalyst. Is the EGR system also missing from the C&C's? The reason I ask is because I keep getting the 2262 code on my 2500 and I am thinking of trading it in for a 3500 C&C. Is that a dumb idea? I use this truck to pull a fifth wheel that has a GVWR of 12,000. So, I know the C&C would be over kill, but I am getting tired of these codes.



I guess my question to this group is, do y'all see the 2262 codes on your trucks? And, what are any other downsides to doing this.



Thanks.

 

[HBarlow]

The C&C trucks do have less emissions equipment as well as different engine programming related to emissions. I've forgotten the details now but believe you are correct about the NOX catalyst. The C&Cs have a smaller DPF, no NOX catalyst (I think), but do have an EGR. The emissions control system is a little easier to get along with on the C&C trucks.

I don't think it would be a bad idea to trade a 2500 p/u for a 3500 C&C at all but the cost will certainly be a factor that only you can decide on.

I bought my C&C primarily to tow. I own a 14,000 lb. HitchHiker fiver. The 3500 C&C with Aisin six speed and integrated exhaust braking makes an excellent tow vehicle. My truck now has almost 48,000 miles on the odometer and has been troublefree.

Contact Jason Rushing or Trent Polk @ Glenn Polk Autoplex in Gainseville, TX and tell them I sent you. They are friendly, honest people. I've bought three Dodges and a Chrysler Hemi sedan from them since 2001.

 

[Lorenz]

Your pin weight on 5th wheel probably puts you over the GVWR? 9000 or 9900# depending on the configuration of your existing truck.



I picked up the 3500CC for this reason. I needed the extra capacity. DD is noticeably different but I'll be fixing that fairly soon with a full air bag rear end and our 2. 25 Suspension all around. The wife has to like it as a DD if I want to follow through on selling her Toyota.

 

[Elite1]

This question has already been answered here.



A 3500 looks just like a 4500/5500 when parked side to side but the frame of the bigger trucks is slightly thicker metal and they have slightly taller frame rails on the class 4 and 5. The heavier trucks have 19. 5" wheels/tires, larger brakes, much larger and stiffer springs, and a 76 mph speed governor. The class 4/5 also use a larger, heavier differential as well. And last, the tow hooks are welded on the frame of a 4500/5500 but bolted to the frame of a 3500.



All three use the identical engine and transmission. I own a 3500 and am pleased with it. It is a lot more truck than a 3500 dually pickup.



I started out planning to buy a 4500. It only took a couple of test drives in one to change my mind. IMO a 4500/5500 is not acceptable as a daily driver when unloaded. As a heavily loaded work truck they would probably be fine. Too bad air suspension is not offered.

Does anyone know of a way to turn off or turn up the governor on the 4500? A buddy of mine recently bought one and is rather dissapointed in this feature.

 

[HBarlow]

I'm guessing you are referring to the road speed limit which is factory programmed at 76mph? My understanding is the factory speed limit is due to the speed rating of the 19. 5" tires installed on these trucks.

I've never heard of anyone who has the capability to reprogram this limit. As far as I know, nobody is manufacturing an aftermarket black box for the C&C version of the ISB6. 7 engine.

 

[jelag]

We've got a 08 5500 and I've had that truck over 80... . could the early trucks not have this feature... .

We have a 10L Cat engine in a IH truck... . when we bought the truck we found it wouldn't go over 60 mph... . a trip to the Cat dealer and 2 minutes with a programmer and the limit was removed and reset to the max RPM for the engine... . On some of the roads in AZ, NV, WY the same speed limit is for used for cars and trucks. .

I assume a Cummins dealer can do this for you with his scan tool for a fee... .

Hope this helps. .

 

[graywulf]

caddo Look in your owners manual. You want to look for the GCVWR that tells you what you can tow safely according to the manufacturer. According to my owners manual the 3500 and 2500 can tow the same. The determining factor is the differential. A 3. 54 can tow 16000# and a 4. 10 can tow 18000#. Take your truck with a full tank of fuel and set up with all your tow gear minus the RV to a truck stop and weigh your truck. Subtract that weight from your GCVWR. That will tell you the weight you can tow safely. If you have 4. 10's your at the limit with a 12000# 5th wheel. Remember adding air bags will not increase your tow/haul capacity. Graywulf

 

[EArp]

As TAbbott wrote above the C&C engines are downrated, probably because it was assumed that company drivers would be operating them more than owners.

Hey Harvey, I still don't understand why the bigger trucks engines are detuned? It seems to me with the bigger/heavier loads that the truck is rated for, that they would want the same HP or more than the 2500 & 3500 trucks have to help get the larger loads moving and maintain speed on grades & such?