Update On Hydrogen Application

[AHarris]

Numbers please

This is an interesting discussion and debate about whether the technology is legit or not. I have an open mind and would like to believe it, but now it's time to start seeing some empirical evidence (what the last poster suggests might be a good start).

 

[whistleman]

Yeah! I believe scientist

If you believe the scientist, we "Evolved from, get this Monkeys".



Check this site: Hydrogen Generator Plans - How To Build A Hydrogen Generator

 

[Matt400]

But do you believe the Mad Scientist? :-laf

 

[AHarris]

If you believe the scientist, we "Evolved from, get this Monkeys".

Check this site: Hydrogen Generator Plans - How To Build A Hydrogen Generator

I love the idea and hope it works, but... ... ...

Don't know, but I bet I'd run into some problems at the Dodge dealer if I popped out a code or had a bad turbo, and showed up with a jug of water and baking soda hooked up to one of my truck batteries and to the intake of my 6. 7. Something tells me Chrysler would be blaming me for the failed part even if the HHO gadgetry didn't cause the problem. I'm no lawyer, but I'd probably have to get a good one if I needed warranty service under these circumstances. Service departments at "stealerships" are not on the customers side as any of us beyond our first car or truck purchase have learned the hard way at some point in time.

Turbos, ECMs, and DPFs are multi-thousand dollar items--a big pain in the wallet if one had to be replaced outside of the warranty.

For the most part, I consider TDR a credible source if information... so if someone on here produces the math, credible technical information and real proof this works, then maybe I'll try it out on my truck. Sorry, but Youtube homemade videos, "yeah it works and if you don't think so then you must think the world is flat" comments or implying I subscribe to the THEORY of Darwinism does not constitute the empirical evidence I need to justify risking the warranty on my truck (which wasn't cheap) to test it out.

I've done my own research and Googled it... and most of what I found so far was just BS and sales crap.

 

[LLiddell]

Just before I read this thread, I talked to a friend who is going to try this Hydrogen fuel idea after talking to a gentleman who uses it on two of his 1200kw generators. My friend was told that the refit does work to some degree but the drawback comes from severe corrosion to the head etc. . Just passing on what my pal said two hours ago. Don't know anything about it myself.

 

[ASchuerg]

Well to dispell any doubts as far as Dodge dealer is concent I have taken my truck in for repairs removed the system prior NO PROBLEMS. Second this is not run on straight Hydrogen the HYdro gas is only a helper. Tanks of fuel I carry 185 gallons of fuel i have made that run on more than one occasion . Now maybe you'll will be able to understand this plain and simple I repeat I am not selling a thing just trying to help out with high price of fuel . Last year due to drought I had to haul hay for my live stock diesel $ 1. 55 gallon hay $ 13. 00 a roll my cost for 22 rolls of hay was $ 18. 65 per roll. / In Dec. 2007 fuel in the am $ 3. 17 gal later that same day same fuel stop $ 3. 71 gal . I spent $ 495. 00 in one day on fuel. I just merely trying to show the ways I am trying to save some money. . If you have something to contribute state it if you want trials get your butt in gear and do something instead of sitting around complaining and wining.

 

[AHarris]

Well to dispell any doubts as far as Dodge dealer is concent I have taken my truck in for repairs removed the system prior NO PROBLEMS. Second this is not run on straight Hydrogen the HYdro gas is only a helper. Tanks of fuel I carry 185 gallons of fuel i have made that run on more than one occasion . Now maybe you'll will be able to understand this plain and simple I repeat I am not selling a thing just trying to help out with high price of fuel . Last year due to drought I had to haul hay for my live stock diesel $ 1. 55 gallon hay $ 13. 00 a roll my cost for 22 rolls of hay was $ 18. 65 per roll. / In Dec. 2007 fuel in the am $ 3. 17 gal later that same day same fuel stop $ 3. 71 gal . I spent $ 495. 00 in one day on fuel. I just merely trying to show the ways I am trying to save some money. . If you have something to contribute state it if you want trials get your butt in gear and do something instead of sitting around complaining and wining.

How much money are you saving? What are your fuel mileage improvements?

 

[ASchuerg]

right now i am averageing 19. 7 mpg

empty up from 16. 2 mpg.

towing 28' flatbed trailer empty @75MPH 17. 9MPG up 15. 6

towing 28' flatbed w/22k lbs of hay over the same roads 13. 5 mpg up from 8. 9 mpg traveling @ 75 to 80 mph hilly interstate . will be adding hypertech next.

 

[ASchuerg]

right now i am averaging 19. 7 mpg

empty up from 16. 2 mpg.

towing 28' flatbed trailer empty @75MPH 17. 9MPG up 15. 6

towing 28' flatbed w/22k lbs of hay over the same roads 13. 5 mpg up from 8. 9 mpg traveling @ 75 to 80 mph hilly interstate . will be adding hypertech next.

 

[Bob V]

So... . if you post twice does that mean you are gitting 39. 4 mpg now?

 

[jelag]

I've got to get back into this..... years ago I had a chance to get several hundred hours on a Dyno with an nice engineer... . I learned a lot and tested more stuff than I knew what to do with... . The big key item the engineer taught me was to ""TEST, DON'T GUESS"". Think through the theory of how it works, test it and decide after the before and after tests if the theory proves out... .

We had the ability to measure fuel flow to the engine and return fuel back to the tank... these were gasoline vehicles but the math hold true... and so does the physics formulas... we could duplicate road conditions for fuel and measure MPG... in all the stuff we tested, and I mean a lot, we never found anything you could add to the tank, but you could improve MPG by adding Slick 50 to the engine and transmission... . the tests proved it... but you lost the effect when you changed the oil... . thus no value at the time... .

On the other hand your adding an additional fuel... and we know that if you add propane, natural gas, or other combustible gas you can improve performance because of the excess oxygen in the combustion chamber... ... but, remember no one has really proven that your adding H2 and 0 as separate gases... . just that the water goes away, for all we know your adding water vapor which is nothing more than water injection... . and water injection will improve fuel economy, but only sightly... .

My basic chemistry tells me that you can't add stuff to water, and than add a heater and break down the gases..... I've asked a chemist this... or at least a chemical engineer that I know and he can't see it working either... .

Chemistry does tell me that if you take an acid, like what is in a battery and over charge it... . you release gases that will explode. . you see this with a wrench touched across the terminals of a battery when its over charged... but you get a lot of acid spilled around in the resulting explosion..... and the energy expended to release the gas is not acceptable to run an engine just to overcharge the battery.....

But I do suggest that someone take the time to TEST by doing the following... ... .

Any service shop uses an exhaust gas analyzer which can measure, CO - carbon monoxide, HC - hydro-carbon, and O2 - oxygen... a simple wave of the wand over the gases would register O2 or oxygen and HC - raw hydro-carbon... if its just water vapor, the EGA will show nothing... . as it can't measure steam.....

I'm just taking the time to visit with the engineers, and learn, I'm lucky to have them available.....

Just my thoughts... . BTW - I'd love to hear comments by Joe Donally on this issue... are you reading this thread Joe???

 

[PRout]

Some people on here can just "talk into the tank" and raise their fuel mileage. :-laf

 

[ASchuerg]

I really don't need to waste my time with some of you morans. Have you ever seen a clorine free swimming pool system. It's the same principle but of course most of you don't get to close to water either. And for those of you who don't I WALK ON WATER AS WELL !!! BELIEVE BECAUSE I SAID SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ENafziger]

My basic chemistry tells me that you can't add stuff to water, and than add a heater and break down the gases..... I've asked a chemist this... or at least a chemical engineer that I know and he can't see it working either... .

It's not adding a heater that's being discussed here... it's electrolysis. It's not an arguable point as to whether or not electrolysis can be used to break water into hydrogen and oxygen gases. This has been demonstrated over and over. (Yes I have tried myself, and it does work) The "stuff" added to water -- whether acid, base, or electrolite -- is simply to enhance the conductivity of the water, and encourage more effective electrolysis.

You can experiment simply with this phenomena yourself... and it doesn't take fancy emissions equipment. The production of hydrogen gas and oxygen will be easily ignitable with a match... if it was just steam coming off, the match would be extinguished.

--Eric

 

[betterthanstock]

It's not adding a heater that's being discussed here... it's electrolysis. It's not an arguable point as to whether or not electrolysis can be used to break water into hydrogen and oxygen gases. This has been demonstrated over and over. (Yes I have tried myself, and it does work) The "stuff" added to water -- whether acid, base, or electrolite -- is simply to enhance the conductivity of the water, and encourage more effective electrolysis.



You can experiment simply with this phenomena yourself... and it doesn't take fancy emissions equipment. The production of hydrogen gas and oxygen will be easily ignitable with a match... if it was just steam coming off, the match would be extinguished.



--Eric

A match is not even necessary.

YouTube - HHo fuel cell explosion

 

[Matt400]

Some people on here can just "talk into the tank" and raise their fuel mileage. :-laf

Well if plants like getting talked to I am sure my trucks personality would listen!:-laf

 

[PRout]

lol. . Actually, I was just having a little fun with the comment and it was not directed at the "believers" on this subject. I can direct that comment back at myself sometimes also.

If we were able to get Neil & Buzz on the moon by the "End of the decade" as Kennedy so boldly promised (talk about naysayers, THAT appeared impossible at the time - since redstones & atlases were blowing up right and left). We WILL find ways to make fuel from water, hydrogen, etc. Its just a matter of time, and motivation.

Keep on working this, nice job...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I sorta gave up posting on this, since all we're doing is expressing personal opinions, and physics theory based more on the past technology than what advances might appear in the future - so I have been waiting for Eric to get his own setup installed and put up some test results. Unfortunately, his 4x4 gearcase had to be replaced, and time for the HHO stuff has been back-burnered for a bit...



Maybe later...

 

[betterthanstock]

GM just lost $15 Billion in one Quarter.

They have 14 PhD's (chemists, psysicists, ) working on 3 continents to develop a better Lithium battery so they can intro their Electric vehicle in 2010.

Don't you think that these devices, if they worked, they would be retrofitted to the SUV's rotting unsold on dealer lots? What's stopping them?

 

[DCreed]

GM just lost $15 Billion in one Quarter.
They have 14 PhD's (chemists, psysicists, ) working on 3 continents to develop a better Lithium battery so they can intro their Electric vehicle in 2010.
Don't you think that these devices, if they worked, they would be retrofitted to the SUV's rotting unsold on dealer lots? What's stopping them?

it would not be cost effective. It also woudnt work for beans. SUVs are too heavy and it would cost tham MORE to retro-fit than to scrap them and build new.
when GM orders a tire it specifies 3 qualities. it needs to be round, it needs to be black, and it needs to be cheap.
by the time the tire gets to production it no longer needs to be round or black!:-laf