Update On Hydrogen Application

[Matt400]

To: the authors of treads #76, #77, #78, and #79.



Obviously you folks do not understand atmospheric air quality

And you do with your 11 plate full forward 300 injectors? :-laf opps, soory about that, I se thats your offspring thats pumelting the atmosphere. Must make great conversation at get togethers.

 

[DPellegrin]

Hey Matt400,

Obviously you have never raised a child. He may look like me but I don't ask him to think like me! May be you will be enlightened some day.



Nice try in suggesting some sort of inconsistency. That does not change my opinion or the absurdity of what is referenced as "fact" and "truth" in the aforementioned threads.

 

[JimB1]

What D Pellegrin said.



And the proof will be reflected by the amount of, or lack of, even handed factual rebuttal to his position.

 

[Matt400]

Oh yes I have, 3 and they are all on their own now. I just thought the the emission remark was funny with mods like that in a sig thats all and edited my post when I realized it wasn't your truck.

 

[PRout]

I wonder how much pollution Tow Trucks make before the service guy at the dealer takes the truck out on a 2 hour drive for no reason other than to "clean out" the smog device. .

 

[HBarlow]

To: the authors of treads #76, #77, #78, and #79.



Obviously you folks do not understand atmospheric air quality, or the chemisrty involved in formation of pollutants, or exhaust emissions, or for that matter the thermodynamic cycle of a diesel engine.



Your so called "facts" are wrong! You must be blinded by your rage.



Regards

Speaking only for myself, you are right in your sentence above and I will add, ... ..... nor do I give a damn about them.



I cited no facts, whatsoever and feel no "rage. "



I simply do not buy into the media hype about man-made "global warming. " I have lived long enough to observe and know that weather varies over long and short term cycles and have seen the same wackos or their parents rant and rail against global cooling back in the 1970s. Now it is "global warming. " Both are phony issues. Yes, the planet cools and warms from time to time. That is nature and has nothing to do with man's residence here.



I am unwilling to grow government to hire more bureaucrats to tell me what I can drive, how I can drive it, how I should live my life or otherwise intrude on my life and rights to live free and encumbered by silly environmental wackos like my sister or other San Francisco libs.

 

[DPellegrin]

Mr. Barlow,

I have read your tread #86 and you sure have convinced me that you are not enraged. Disrespecting your own sister!! Think about that for a minute! You have been blinded by your rage.



I guess Texas is like a "... whole nuther country"



Call you sister and actually listen to what she has to say, you don't have to agree; but, just maybe you will find there is another side to the story.



Best Regards,

 

[HBarlow]

Mr. Barlow,

I have read your tread #86 and you sure have convinced me that you are not enraged. Disrespecting your own sister!! Think about that for a minute! You have been blinded by your rage.



I guess Texas is like a "... whole nuther country"



Call you sister and actually listen to what she has to say, you don't have to agree; but, just maybe you will find there is another side to the story.



Best Regards,

Pellegrin,



I've got a spot reserved for you right around behind my rearmost body part. You can pucker up and give me big kiss right there.



Mind your own silly business and keep your nose out of my family business.



You silly effeminate libs apparently think that men who express points of view counter to the prevailing women's opinions are enraged. Actually, this may come as somewhat of a surprise to you, I don't let women or lib males rule my life. I certainly do not subscribe to or accept politically correct nonsense such as environmental pollution and global warming. I'm not enraged about anything. I just know what I believe and will express it whether you and your kind approve, or not.



Afterthought: Is insulting the Great State of Texas and all of its citizens as well as throwing around silly gratuitous insults about my relationship or lack thereof with my sister what you and the rest of you silly libs consider intellectual thought and facts that support your nonsensical, politically correct position? Grow up.

 

[DPellegrin]

Mr. Barlow,

Take a couple of deep breaths man!! I'm not going to stupe to your level of insults. Sorry for pointing out the obvious.



YOU HAVE LOST YOUR COOL!!! I have heard that this is quite easy for a Texan. (See what broad discriminating generalizations sound like).



YOU HATE ME AND YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ME!!



Oh yes! Call your sister.



Kindest Regards,

 

[KIKER]

I weld pipe in the natural gas industry and the pipeline company that I work for handles natural gas that contains a large percentage of hydrogen sulfide gas. On the systems that contains H2S, we are required to weld with a "low hydrogen" welding rod for the root and subsequent weld passes to prevent hydrogen embritlement which causes cracks in the weld and surrounding pipe. It is a much more difficult procedure to weld and pass x-ray inspection. For this reason, I can see where using hydrogen as a fuel in engines not designed to burn hydrogen could cause severe and costly damage to the metal itself.

 

[Matt400]

Oh yes! Call your sister.

Thats like stirring the pot, I don't think he should. Remember he said she is from Berkley and there is something truly odd going on with those folks.



I am sure he loves his sister and communicates once in a great while but to call and ask her opinion on something he feels so strongly about would just upset his relationship with her more.

 

[JimB1]

In-flexibility is the death knell for a person, nation, culture, species.



Working out new ideas for new tommorrows isn't a guarentee for every given idea to succeed in the next tommorrow.



BUT every historical measure conclusively proves the dynamics of change applies to every aspect of our existance.

 

[grasmo]

I would bet that just one poke through the ozone with the space shuttle damages the ozone more than all the car exhaust ever. I always interested in newer energy sources etc. . But the fact is diesel generates some pretty serious power and it will be hard to match it.

 

[PRout]

So, does anyone in this thread have any documented data showing the kits work yet? Where is the documented mileage increase?

 

[BLarkman]

Doen't understand what u mean by documented?? If u fill the tank and drive x miles and refill and u get better milage. Is this not proof enough. We did install one on a gas rig and he has driven it 400 miles and went from 18 to 22. We now are making one up for my 2004 dodge diesel and will see what improvement we get. IMHO I feel that no matter what test you did there will always be some who say "Thats is not conclusive enough!!"

 

[PRout]

How about a simple excel spreadsheet showing miles on rig at fill-up, how many gallons of fuel used to refill to full, what the driving conditions were of the last tank, unusual factors if any, showing a trend before and after adding the kit?

Even just a simple list giving some real numbers to look at.

Im sorry, but 400 miles does not show a trend or average fuel mileage.

Im not saying yay or nay on this technology. The part that that keeps some people skeptical is so far its mostly input like "I made a run to so & so and got 23 instead of 20 on that run, therefore its giving me 3 mpg difference. " It seems to be the trend, hearsay, 1 or 2 simple "The guy saw a 2mpg increase". Those are the kinds of claims you see in advertisements of things like fuel magnets, tag, intake swirl devices, fuel additives, different snake motor oil, etc.
If you dont get what I'm saying, then nevermind & disregard this post.

 

[JimB1]

Solid successful inovation has a way of making itself known.



announcements of, "it works pretty good for me, here's sketchy details, is a fable"



No big news, no cigar.

 

[BLarkman]

Well my intention was to let it be known that we had make a simple kit and it did work. In October I will be making the same yearly trip to Yuma and record how many gallons of fuel it takes to get there. Even though some will not like that. I will also use the overhead milage display to also check milage. When we went to Alaska last year my onboard checks were very close to what my calculator gave to compare mpg. I feel that if I get 15 mpg on the trip rather then 12. 5 I will be a happy camper. Then the installation was worth the $50 cost. Should I be taking into consideration that on my way down I am going downhill, how hard the wind is blowing, Spring or Fallor what. How many miles should I drive before I post results. We are building the cheapest,simpleist kit and are not making any claims as to how well it work other then we did see an improvement in milage, like 4 mpg (gas)and that the unit does work. What else can I say, either you believe it or not is up to you . The people who have installed the kits are happy with the results. Others say it won't work, you cannot make gas from water, and we want certified ,documentation and notorized(humor). By the way I get 22-25 mpg on my 04 Dodge 3500 running on highways at 1800 RPM non towing

bob

 

[PRout]

Fair enough - Thanks.

 

[DIESELMAN]

I haven't been on for a while, and this is the FIRST thread I see?? Come On...



RUBBISH! HOGWASH, Whatever... .



Here’s the deal, and its SIMPLE physics, There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.



YES, there is energy in water. Chemically, it’s locked up in the atomic bonds between the hydrogen and oxygen atoms. When the hydrogen and oxygen combine, whether it’s in a fuel cell, internal combustion engine running on hydrogen, or a jury-rigged CTD with an electrolysis cell under the hood, there’s energy left over in the form of heat or electrons. That’s converted to mechanical energy by the pistons and crankshaft or electrical motors to move the vehicle. (Recombinant Boron technology is not electrolysis, essentially a battery, but that is a different story)



SO, the PROBLEM: It takes exactly the same amount of energy to pry those hydrogen and oxygen atoms apart inside the electrolysis cell as you get back when they recombine inside the fuel cell MINUS LOSSES IN EFICIENCY IN GENERATING THE ELECTRICITY TO SEPERATE THE MOLECULES IN THE FIRST PLACE. And in an Engine, you get back MUCH, MUCH less. The laws of thermodynamics haven’t changed and ARE NOT going to, in spite of any hype you read. Subtract the losses to heat, ANY HEAT, in the engine and alternator and electrolysis cell, and you’re losing energy, not gaining it—period.



Does adding Hydrogen increase the efficiency of the fuel burn, sure, but not to a degree greater than the energy required to create the additional Hydrogen flow in the first place.



All of these 'electrolysers' rely on violating the First law of thermodynamics and ignoring simple Entropy. It doesn't work, can't work, not going to work.



And more than this, they rely on the PT Barnum Principle, and another minute has passed... .



AND, think of this, most people add these in the Spring, after burning WINTER blend, they transition to SUMMER blend fuel, and Voila! Your Mileage has increased! Wow, some magic Eh?? This is true for DIesel with the #2/#1 blending and Cetane change, and for Gasoline with the Alchol/MTBE blends, all reduce the BTU value of fuel in the winter, and reduce your mileage, because it takes X amount of energy to do Y amount of work, even if that work is just blowing crap out of the DPF in a new truck.



So, have any REAL topics been covered lately?