Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Anatomy of an APPS - the SEQUEL!

[timbo]

Rick sent me this PM and thought I should bump this back to the top again, for guys that don't get on the forum often. Hopefully the guys that need an APPS will see this before breaking there bank account for a DC unit.

-- email address removed --



Hi Tim,

seems to work great, put over 300 miles on it so far. Crisp acceleration accepts throttle smoothly, very happy. Is it constructed inside different from the lousy APPS from Dodge?

Thanks, Rick

__________________

Cummins Lover and Always Changing Things!

See truck profile, most likely its out dated by now! 2002

3500 4x4 SLT. Auto

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Rick sent me this PM and thought I should bump this back to the top again, for guys that don't get on the forum often. Hopefully the guys that need an APPS will see this before breaking there bank account for a DC unit.

-- email address removed --



Hi Tim,

seems to work great, put over 300 miles on it so far. Crisp acceleration accepts throttle smoothly, very happy. Is it constructed inside different from the lousy APPS from Dodge?

Thanks, Rick

__________________

Cummins Lover and Always Changing Things!

See truck profile, most likely its out dated by now! 2002

3500 4x4 SLT. Auto

I trust you have assured him that, indeed, the Williams APPS module is a FAR better design than the JUNK DC used...



My own original setup is still operating flawlessly, in spite of it's own composition and use of strange components, and will get a real workout in about 10 days on our 1500 mile RV trip... :-laf



Hope all is going well for you, Tim...

 

[PRout]

I'm confident that yours is going to work perfectly on your trip Gary. The one you fixed up for me is flawless so far. Can not tell any difference in drivability than a new oem 380. 00 replacement. .

If we dont meet here in the forums till then, I wish you a safe and fun trip! Same goes to everyone that's hitting the road. .

I'll be headed to Twin Lakes (by Bridgeport) for the first week of June also. .

Phil

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

AH, good 'ol Bridgeport and Twin Lakes - spent RV time there several summers with a couple of Ham Radio buddies for Trout fishing just before moving up here to eastern Oregon - hope you have a great trip too!

 

[PRout]

Yep, upper twin - got a cabin 20 ft from the water. . Just bring the ol' fishin pole over, its gonna be nice and peaceful (the way we like it). Thank you! Will have to put a radio in this truck someday. Got a co-worker that might let go of his 706Mk2.

 

[mhenon]

Yep, upper twin - got a cabin 20 ft from the water. . Just bring the ol' fishin pole over, its gonna be nice and peaceful (the way we like it). Thank you! Will have to put a radio in this truck someday. Got a co-worker that might let go of his 706Mk2.

What's your call sign Phil. Haven't done any HF stuff in years but I did have, among others, an Icom 706. Nice little radio.



Bridgeport... WOW... that brings back memories. I worked a forest fire there in 1975 (I was the helicopter mechanic) and loved the place. Enjoy!

Mike... KJ7GI

 

[PRout]

Hey Mike, wow, thats quite a thing having the responsibility of keeping those guys "in the air" when things are hot.

Bridgeport is still a great little town, they've still kept the original courthouse built back in the 1800's, etc. My current call is wb6pj. Havent done much talking in the last couple yrs, but used to have the radio on all day listening to the 40 m warzone around 7. 258, the 7240 swapnet, w-cars, the kadidlehoppers (sp) and "Rrrrrradios that glow in the dark". Most of the good ol' timers are silent keys now. Sure miss em...

As for dx'ing, it's always been more fun or challenging to see where you can talk from with the mobile. Used to go out to the desert, Death Valley area, etc, and string up long wires. 15 meters sure gets out there when its open and you can hear well without all the city noise.

Thats one of the nice bonuses of a "True" K7GLD revived Apps. He puts noise filter ckts in em too. . ; ) (But the others are good too!)

Cheers Mike. . di di di bump dee bump

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Interesting, the number of Amateur Radio ops on this board.



While it's WAaaay off-topic, and likely to turn a few stomachs, here's a shot of my "shack/media room" - and also where all the major APPS work was done:

(PIC updated, 5/31/15)



Another thread of active Hams on the board, with as many pics as possible, might be interesting...

 

[PRout]

Great pic Gary! nice setup. Good idea of making up a ham station pic thread. . Will have to dig up one as well after the Mothers day activities. .

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

OK - started another thread for TDR Amateur Radio operator check-ins - this might be fun! Oo.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...-tdr-amateur-radio-ops-check.html#post1930969

 

[mhenon]

OK - started another thread for TDR Amateur Radio operator check-ins - this might be fun! Oo.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...-tdr-amateur-radio-ops-check.html#post1930969

Oh man... . wish I had saved some photo's of my shack back in the '90's. I ran a Navy MARS station for years (NNN0AJK) and spent hours on the radio. Also was part of the SHARES program and ran a digital (Pactor) HF BBS for SHARES 24/7. SHARES is federal SHared RESource program for all federal agencies (MARS included) and it was very interesting to see the HF traffic coming across my switch... . FEMA, NOAA, Coast Guard, ARMY, etc. .



Better stay on topic. What's the thread about... oh yeah. . the APPS. I thought we fixed that a while back. Don't tell me someone's still using the DC version. They were nothing but trouble if I remember right!



Gotta run fellas. Enjoyed the flashbacks though!

Mike

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Just did a 4700+ mi trip on a "Gary-fied" APPS consisting of a used pot and MS. It performed flawlessly from sea level to 11,000' and everything in between. Thanks to all you guys for the yeoman's job on the DODGE pos!!!!

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[muchsnow]

Apps/Tps replace with Williams Controls IVS APPS

Rick sent me this PM and thought I should bump this back to the top again, for guys that don't get on the forum often. Hopefully the guys that need an APPS will see this before breaking there bank account for a DC unit.
Timbom1976@aol.com

Hi Tim,
seems to work great, put over 300 miles on it so far. Crisp acceleration accepts throttle smoothly, very happy. Is it constructed inside different from the lousy APPS from Dodge?
Thanks, Rick
__________________
Cummins Lover and Always Changing Things!
See truck profile, most likely its out dated by now! 2002
3500 4x4 SLT. Auto

I have well over three thousand miles on this now, this has been/is more stable than any DC unit NIB I've ever installed (been through three). Seems like the switch aspect at closed throttle is the biggest POS in the DC units.

Good idle, cruise control, drivability, I guess I'll get another to keep in the glove box here eventually. That way it'll never go bad.

Good on you Tim,

This has been a great idea, and it works!


Thanks,

L. J. M.

 

[BradPatterson]

Apps

X2!!... ..... Brad

 

[SnoKing]

So, what are some of the symptoms of a problem with the IVS circuit/switch? I have had for a long time an issue from time to time when I let up on the go pedal my TC unlocks and therefore my exhaust brake is useless. I bring the RPMs back up and it "latches" up and usually works correctly the next time. When this problem occurs, I do get the signal from the APPS for the Banks exhaust brake to activate, just loose TC lookup. This is with full DTT transmission and their smart controller. SNOKING

 

[JLandry]

I have had for a long time an issue from time to time when I let up on the go pedal my TC unlocks and therefore my exhaust brake is useless. I bring the RPMs back up and it "latches" up and usually works correctly the next time.

Snoking,



Based my own experience with a Smartlock, this sounds like normal behavior.



From the Smartlock owner's manual:

There are two operating conditions

that will require light throttle

pressure to engage the torque

converter clutch. These are:



(1) Activating the exhaust brake

switch under dropped throttle and



(2) Re-locking the torque converter

after an overdrive to 3rd gear

downshift. Under these conditions,

simply apply light throttle pressure

until the vehicle’s computer engages

the lockup clutch (indicated by a

slight drop in engine rpm) and

release the accelerator pedal. Clutch

engagement should remain in effect

until approximately 30 mph.​

Try experimenting with how fast you let up on the accelerator pedal when you have the exhaust brake turned on. I've found if you let up on the accelerator pedal slowly, you'll find the Smartlock won't consistently lock the TC, but if you let up quickly, it'll almost always lock.



Also remember the TC isn't capable of locking up in 1st or 2nd gear.



Hope that helps,



John L.

 

[DavidC]

My smart controller works perfectly every time. Once the TC is locked and leaving off the accelerator the TC and exhaust brake stay activated down to 30mph. Second gear lockup works fine although you have to have second manually selected. The TC and exhaust brake stay activated down to 18mph when second gear is manually selected.



Dave

 

[SnoKing]

Snoking,



Based my own experience with a Smartlock, this sounds like normal behavior.



From the Smartlock owner's manual:

There are two operating conditions

that will require light throttle

pressure to engage the torque

converter clutch. These are:



(1) Activating the exhaust brake

switch under dropped throttle and



(2) Re-locking the torque converter

after an overdrive to 3rd gear

downshift. Under these conditions,

simply apply light throttle pressure

until the vehicle's computer engages

the lockup clutch (indicated by a

slight drop in engine rpm) and

release the accelerator pedal. Clutch

engagement should remain in effect

until approximately 30 mph.​

Try experimenting with how fast you let up on the accelerator pedal when you have the exhaust brake turned on. I've found if you let up on the accelerator pedal slowly, you'll find the Smartlock won't consistently lock the TC, but if you let up quickly, it'll almost always lock.



Also remember the TC isn't capable of locking up in 1st or 2nd gear.



Hope that helps,



John L.

Yes, I have noticed that the problem occurs more if I sorta have my foot of the go pedal. And as Dave pointed out, DTT puts a switch on the second gear position for lockup and does TB changes so that you can come down some pretty step hills in second on the exhaust brake.



So another little issue that we have never resolved is that once in a while while pulling hard I get TC unlock. This is not being caused by the TPS setting on the smart controller. It does not happen often, and with a 89 percent TC, heat does not go up that much on a hill. Any thoughts on that. The TC does not cycle at other times. DTT filter seems to have handled that.



I have to say that the truck tows great at combine weight of 19,600 or there abouts. The PDR35 works great for towing along with the mild injectors, big exhaust, 4:10 gears, full DTT transmission and Comp in timing only. I did take the BHAF back off, as it was a bit to noisy. I drilled the air box out some more and put the original paper filter back in after our last western states trip.



Will be off to Arizona next month.



SNOKING

 

[JLandry]

So another little issue that we have never resolved is that once in a while while pulling hard I get TC unlock. This is not being caused by the TPS setting on the smart controller. It does not happen often, and with a 89 percent TC, heat does not go up that much on a hill. Any thoughts on that. The TC does not cycle at other times. DTT filter seems to have handled that.

When this happens, could it be that you're suddenly increasing the accelerator pedal pressure?



According to the Dodge service manual:

The torque converter clutch will disengage momentarily when an increase in engine load is sensed by the PCM, such as when the vehicle begins to go uphill or the throttle pressure is increased. ​

John L.

 

[SnoKing]

When this happens, could it be that you're suddenly increasing the accelerator pedal pressure?



According to the Dodge service manual:

The torque converter clutch will disengage momentarily when an increase in engine load is sensed by the PCM, such as when the vehicle begins to go uphill or the throttle pressure is increased. ​

John L.

It is not momentary, I have to let up and then slowly get back on it to lock it up again. SNOKING