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Fiat-Chrysler Alliance Could Threaten Cummins

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Found on RV Industry News blog:

Fiat-Chrysler alliance could threaten Cummins' mid-range engine business

Greg Gerber posted on January 23, 2009 08:46
DETROIT -- The projected Fiat-Chrysler alliance could hold significant longer-term potential for Fiat Powertrain Technologies, but Cummins' mid-range diesel engine business may come under pressure as a result.

Under its Dodge brand name, Chrysler is a major player in 'trucks' - which in North American terminology means pick-ups and minivans. The Dodge Ram pick-up range is a strong challenger to Ford's F-Series for market leadership in the United States and Canada. Nowhere is the competition between them keener than in the heaviest weight segment of up to about 6. 5 tons gross vehicle weight, where many vehicles are equipped with towing hitches enabling them to be operated at a train (ie all-up) weight of 10 tons or more.

Diesel power predominates in that heavy pick-up sector. In Chrysler's case the Ram range is powered exclusively by Cummins. Ram business accounts for far and away the largest percentage globally of Cummins' well-proven 6. 7 litre in-line six-cylinder ISB diesel business.

Under a contract signed during the last months of the DaimlerChrysler regime, Cummins is developing an all-new smaller - and EPA 2010 compliant - diesel of around 4. 5 litres capacity, for use by Dodge in both heavy and lighter-duty pick-ups, with potential further applications in Chrysler SUVs and passenger cars.

And here we come back to the intended Chrysler-Fiat engagement, if not eventual marriage. Under the banner of what has, since March 2005, been Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT), the Italian group produces automotive diesels in almost every power bracket. Most significantly it offers the 4- and 6-litre Tector range. These are engines developed during the late 1990s under the EEA (European Engine Alliance) joint venture between Fiat and Cummins. The first Tector engines were virtually identical to their Cummins ISB counterparts, differing only in their fuel system electronic controls.

By all accounts, relations between the EEA partners were far from smooth. Cummins allegedly accused the Italians of reneging on an agreement that Fiat would not tout for outside, on-highway business. Although not publicly acknowledged at the time, co-operation was strained and the EEA was quietly dissolved about five years ago. And when Cummins embarked on an ISB update program to meet Euro 4 emission laws - which involved, fundamentally, an increase in bore and stroke - the company bent over backwards to prevent Fiat engineers getting access to the finer details, including those cylinder dimensions.

It seems highly likely that Cummins, with its future Chrysler engine supply business on the line, will be sure to remind its most important North American mid-range engine OEM customer of its own experience of co-operating with Fiat.

SOURCE: Automotive World
 
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JHC... just what we need... Iveco engines with impossible to find parts, and when you do find them they have to be imported from italy and they cost 5x the price of anything else on the road.

There is a reason you don't see Ivecos here in the USA... no dealer network, no market penetration, no brand loyalty and no one wants an italian engine except a lombardini aircooled running their snowblower.

Choosing Iveco as the engine supplier would be quite possibly the most idiotic thing that Chrysler could EVER do. However, following with the rest of the US car manufacturers going absolutely bonkers insane, they will do it, and destroy their entire customer base.

I'd put a Nissan/UD/Mitsu/anyone MD diesel into a pickup before I'd run an Iveco. At least you can get parts in less than a week.


-Dan.
 
JHC... just what we need... Iveco engines with impossible to find parts, and when you do find them they have to be imported from italy and they cost 5x the price of anything else on the road.



There is a reason you don't see Ivecos here in the USA... no dealer network, no market penetration, no brand loyalty and no one wants an italian engine except a lombardini aircooled running their snowblower.



Choosing Iveco as the engine supplier would be quite possibly the most idiotic thing that Chrysler could EVER do. However, following with the rest of the US car manufacturers going absolutely bonkers insane, they will do it, and destroy their entire customer base.



I'd put a Nissan/UD/Mitsu/anyone MD diesel into a pickup before I'd run an Iveco. At least you can get parts in less than a week.





-Dan.
I couldn't agree more. We ran Ivecos for a short while at work. They had terrible brakes,smoked up a storm and were very unreliable.
 
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but this original post was in 2001. Diamler/Chrysler doesn't exist anymore. The only thing to take Cummins from Chrysler would be bankruptcy. If that's the case, I think Ford will be more than happy to pick up Cummins.
 
I agree. I will probably get some slack from this, but the only reason I have a dodge is for the Cummins. Ford chassis are superior in many ways to Dodge. For one they are made in the USA. Now wait, before anyone says anything about St. Louis, look at the ID tag inside the driver's door. I bet 75% say hecho en mexico. Mine does. :( Ford frames are better, and if you like automatics, which I don't, the autos in Fords are better. Fords also have more interior room and better cab/bed configurations. Why in the heck Dodge never came out with a big cab and a long bed, we'll never know.
 
I read somewhere,(here on TDR?) a year or so back that you can get an F250 in Argentina? with a four cyl. Cummins in it.

I'd like to have one those. I also only bought Dodge for the Cummins.

Ray
 
You can also go to Mexico and order a F series with a 6bt. Just not in this country. Everyone thinks it's Cummins but it's not. Cummins has no brand ties at all. The agreement is between Ford and Chrysler.
 
Found on RV Industry News blog:



Fiat-Chrysler alliance could threaten Cummins' mid-range engine business



Greg Gerber posted on January 23, 2009 08:46

DETROIT -- The projected Fiat-Chrysler alliance could hold significant longer-term potential for Fiat Powertrain Technologies, but Cummins' mid-range diesel engine business may come under pressure as a result.



... Under the banner of what has, since March 2005, been Fiat Powertrain Technologies (FPT), the Italian group produces automotive diesels in almost every power bracket. Most significantly it offers the 4- and 6-litre Tector range. These are engines developed during the late 1990s under the EEA (European Engine Alliance) joint venture between Fiat and Cummins. The first Tector engines were virtually identical to their Cummins ISB counterparts, differing only in their fuel system electronic controls... .



Automotive World



Isn't this what has happened with the Cummins/Consolidated Diesel engines used in the Case New Holland (CNH) line of tractors and construction equipment?



Bill
 
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If this was the case, why would they not have used a Mercedes engine when Daimler took over?

Remember when that was the rumor of the week??

They got a market cornered and they know it... I doubt the Cummins will be taken out of the picture for a long time (unless they fail to meet emissions requirements like some already have succumbed to).
 
The reason the Mercedes was out of the picture is because Dodge doesn't have a european truck market. All their business is North and South America. To take an American made engine out would destroy their business. Plus, why fix something if it aint broke? And rest assured, Cummins is far ahead of the emissions mandate.
 
That makes no sense.



Mercedes would have been an ideal option (they were part of the family)... why source outside? And if I remember correctly, we have a mercedes trans...



And its not like the majority of cummins are made in the US. And the duramax has done alright with an isuzu engine.
 
Yes, we do have the G56 transmission made by diamler. Uh, yes, all ISB/QSB 6 cylinder engines are made in the US. As a matter of fact, all the Chrysler engines are made in a dedicated engine plant up in Walesboro, IN. I ought to know because I worked at the Cummins Insite division that was across I-65. As for the rest, there is a marine factory in Atlanta and the QSBs are made in South Carolina.



That's why it makes sense.
 
ALL the Chryslers are. Besides the ones made overseas stay overseas. Just go and run any ESN on any 6BT in the states and see where the location of manufacture is. Would you have bought a Dodge if it had a Mercedes engine in it?
 
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I'm failing to see the corelation between the 53 block and manufacture locations. Maybe that's why you are done. Done confused yourself.
 
When does the contract end between Dodge and Cummins? They will be talking prior to that time then it will be interesting to see which way they go.



John
 
Now that is a good question. As we all know, the original 1989 contract was 10 years. That came and went. Ford tried to wiggle in, but that is another story. I know first hand that Cummins has developed a V8 Light Duty Diesel for the 1/2 tons for 2010. As well as Nissan. They will be built in the Columbus Engine Plant.
 
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