My truck is heavy...

[Mark31]

Ken, before the experts jump in and read you the 'xact law, here are a few things that stand out to me. pictures 1 and 4. Hudson makes a good trailer, but this 6 ton is too light. The tires and axles are probably overloaded. I don't like your straps. In a wps (worst possible scenario) the hooks would staighten, straps break, u-mounts would tear out. I had a tank like this mounted in a cradle with steel band straps that bolted the tank to the cradle, so the cradle could be bolted, welded down. I would like if it were mine to configure the trailer with the tanks in the middle so the balance of the trailer wouldn't change with the water load. picture 2. Your hitch is very overloaded. A Torqlift Super Magnum would cure this. Your combo mount is too light and too far away from the truck. The farther away from the hitch the ball is just amplifies like a lever the weight on your hitch. To put a bandaid on a cancer, I would measure how much farther the mount could be pushed in the receiver (maybe a couple of inches) and drill a new hole or get a solid mount the right height, (still only bandaid on a cancer). I just want to encourage you again to go to McElrath Trailers. Rick can build a gooseneck to specifically haul your business safely and legally. Who said "You ain't got trouble till you got trouble. "? If you have a rig that is right, looks right, and travels well, you might could extend your working range, if that is what you want. I have an 8 year-old 16k McElrath gooseneck that I would not change one thing on. Next time I get hooked and loaded maybe I'll post a picture and give you guys a go at raking me over the coals. Don't forget the Maxbrake! All the best! Mark

 

[HBarlow]

All I can say is WOW! What a mess!

What does that trailer weigh loaded and how much tongue weight is it placing on the hitch?

Mark did a good job of critiquing the hitch, the trailer, and the way the equipment is attached.

The pintle hook draw bar is unnecessary and does nothing other than amplify the extreme tongue weight and extend the tow. That should be scrapped and replaced by a Reese or Eaz-Lift weight distributing hitch assembly. Trailer hitch, hitches and bike rack (800)298-8924 The advantage of a Reese dual cam hitch is the design includes weight distribution AND sway control in one excellent assembly.

I didn't know the trailer is only rated for 12k. If Mark is correct about that the trailer is probably not adequate for the load and as he stated, the tie downs are probably not safe.

I don't know DOT regulations regarding securing the load because the only "cargo" I have experience with is trailers but I doubt those old straps are going to satisfy DOT inspectors.

As another poster has already recommended, if that truck you are considering is going to be used full time to pull that trailer it will be a poor performer if it has the standard 3. 73 differential gears. With that trailer you are going to be operating with a 20,000 to 22,000 lb. gross combined weight every day, or more. You need 4. 10 gears. The performance and durability of the 48RE will be much improved by 4. 10 gears.

 

[KLauber]

Ken, before the experts jump in and read you the 'xact law, here are a few things that stand out to me. pictures 1 and 4. Hudson makes a good trailer, but this 6 ton is too light. The tires and axles are probably overloaded. I don't like your straps. In a wps (worst possible scenario) the hooks would staighten, straps break, u-mounts would tear out. I had a tank like this mounted in a cradle with steel band straps that bolted the tank to the cradle, so the cradle could be bolted, welded down. I would like if it were mine to configure the trailer with the tanks in the middle so the balance of the trailer wouldn't change with the water load. picture 2. Your hitch is very overloaded. A Torqlift Super Magnum would cure this. Your combo mount is too light and too far away from the truck. The farther away from the hitch the ball is just amplifies like a lever the weight on your hitch. To put a bandaid on a cancer, I would measure how much farther the mount could be pushed in the receiver (maybe a couple of inches) and drill a new hole or get a solid mount the right height, (still only bandaid on a cancer). I just want to encourage you again to go to McElrath Trailers. Rick can build a gooseneck to specifically haul your business safely and legally. Who said "You ain't got trouble till you got trouble. "? If you have a rig that is right, looks right, and travels well, you might could extend your working range, if that is what you want. I have an 8 year-old 16k McElrath gooseneck that I would not change one thing on. Next time I get hooked and loaded maybe I'll post a picture and give you guys a go at raking me over the coals. Don't forget the Maxbrake! All the best! Mark

I dont like the poly tank like this either, it needs to be turned 90 degrees and slid back and cradled like you suggest. This trailer is on rent right now, I will run it by McELrath and have them noodle around with a design. The axles are speced to be 7K each according to the owner even though the sticker says 6K. Need to spec a smaller generator also, this one is old and too heavy. The receiver is a solid piece of steel, I got it from Wags RV here in Greenville. Thanks for the input!



Ken

 

[KLauber]

All I can say is WOW! What a mess!



What does that trailer weigh loaded and how much tongue weight is it placing on the hitch?



Mark did a good job of critiquing the hitch, the trailer, and the way the equipment is attached.



The pintle hook draw bar is unnecessary and does nothing other than amplify the extreme tongue weight and extend the tow. That should be scrapped and replaced by a Reese or Eaz-Lift weight distributing hitch assembly. Trailer hitch, hitches and bike rack (800)298-8924 The advantage of a Reese dual cam hitch is the design includes weight distribution AND sway control in one excellent assembly.



I didn't know the trailer is only rated for 12k. If Mark is correct about that the trailer is probably not adequate for the load and as he stated, the tie downs are probably not safe.



I don't know DOT regulations regarding securing the load because the only "cargo" I have experience with is trailers but I doubt those old straps are going to satisfy DOT inspectors.



As another poster has already recommended, if that truck you are considering is going to be used full time to pull that trailer it will be a poor performer if it has the standard 3. 73 differential gears. With that trailer you are going to be operating with a 20,000 to 22,000 lb. gross combined weight every day, or more. You need 4. 10 gears. The performance and durability of the 48RE will be much improved by 4. 10 gears.

Haven't found out the gear ratio yet. The torque convertor is toasted anyway so it needs a complete transmission overhaul. If its not a 4. 10 are you suggesting I pass on this one? But then again I would not be using it each and every day. Most of the work I'll be doing will be within a 100 mile radius of Greenville. Thanks for the knowledge, this is all extremely valuable.



Ken

 

[HBarlow]

Ken,

That's a tough decision for you to make since you've apparently found a clean truck worthy of consideration but I would pass on one that is not 4. 10. I know there are lots of hills of your area, not steep mountains, but rolling hills.

With that heavy load behind and doing lots of towing as your daily routine you will be more satisfied with a truck geared 4. 10. Yes, many will argue, the mighty Cummins can do just fine with 3. 73 gears. The Cummins produces plenty of torque to spare to move that load but overall performance and satisfaction will be much better with 4. 10 gears.

If it were my decision to make I would buy a manual six speed NV-5600 with 4. 10 gears and have a Jacobs Exhaust Brake installed or buy an '06 or '07 w/48RE which can accept an exhaust brake. The '06 and up are already programmed and ready for an eb.

 

[HBarlow]

... ... ... ... .
The receiver is a solid piece of steel, I got it from Wags RV here in Greenville. Thanks for the input! Ken

Ken,

That's not the receiver. The component you are discussing is the draw bar. It is probably strong enough to support the entire trailer but the 2" square receiver it is inserted into is not adequate for the load as is.

I think the OEM Dodge receiver hitch is rated at 600 lbs. deadweight and 6000 lbs. trailer towing capacity. With weight distribution bars attached the hitch is capable of greater carrying capacity. I forget the ratings, someone else probably knows.

 

[KLauber]

Show me the money!

Ken,



If it were my decision to make I would buy a manual six speed NV-5600 with 4. 10 gears and have a Jacobs Exhaust Brake installed or buy an '06 or '07 w/48RE which can accept an exhaust brake. The '06 and up are already programmed and ready for an eb.

Thanks Harvey, I agree! Can you lend me the money? All kidding aside, I would jump on such a truck if one came up again. There was an 07 with all that but it was a short bed which I don't want. It lasted about a week at the used car lot. But I'm still looking... .

 

[HBarlow]

Ken,

Your messiah in DC should be able to provide you with the funds you need. Just write and tell him you are still displaying his bumper sticker and you need your promised hope and change now to buy the truck you need.

 

[steved]

I forget the ratings, someone else probably knows.

Its considered a Class 4 if factory installed, Class 3 if dealer installed.



I want to remember a class 4 is 1200/12000 with weight distribution? However, I want to remember the owner's manual talking about 1200/14000??

 

[NIsaacs]

To me, it looks like a clean secure load. With a load of water, too much weight on the truck and trailer hitch. However the standard nylon 2" Ratchet straps are rated 10,000 lbs each and if the flush mount "D" rings are bolted to the main frame they will not give either. If that water tank goes anywhere the trailer will too.



Nick

 

[KLauber]

Class 3?

Ken,



That's not the receiver. The component you are discussing is the draw bar. It is probably strong enough to support the entire trailer but the 2" square receiver it is inserted into is not adequate for the load as is.



I think the OEM Dodge receiver hitch is rated at 600 lbs. deadweight and 6000 lbs. trailer towing capacity. With weight distribution bars attached the hitch is capable of greater carrying capacity. I forget the ratings, someone else probably knows.

The guy at Wags RV is steering me wrong then, he said it was rated to 10 grand and that leveling bars wouldn't work on the type of trailer I have. Maybe I need a CLass 5 receiver (even on a dually in case I do not pick up a gooseneck trailer) then?



Ken

 

[Mark31]

Ken, Harvey is right about the 4. 10 gears. I was loaded at almost 24k and had to stop on some Greenville-like uphills. I thought I was going to scorch everything in the trans trying to get going with my 3. 73 gears. I used you as an excuse to talk to Rick at McElrath. He went online and looked at your rig and said he thought he could make something you would be happy with. I even got my commission worked out: If he sells you a trailer, he'll buy me dinner at the Beacon (beacon.com). One more thing: you want your big water tank crossways. Longways, the water sloshing back and forth is a royal pain. Mark

 

[KLauber]

To me, it looks like a clean secure load. With a load of water, too much weight on the truck and trailer hitch. However the standard nylon 2" Ratchet straps are rated 10,000 lbs each and if the flush mount "D" rings are bolted to the main frame they will not give either. If that water tank goes anywhere the trailer will too.



Nick

My last 2 loads were about 475 gallons (4000 lbs) with about 325 in the poly tank and 150 in the blue knockout tank. Seemed to be the least trouble with the current tow truck. With a dually i could haul more for sure.



Ken

 

[GAmes]

The guy at Wags RV is steering me wrong then, he said it was rated to 10 grand and that leveling bars wouldn't work on the type of trailer I have. Maybe I need a CLass 5 receiver (even on a dually in case I do not pick up a gooseneck trailer) then?



Ken

In the current configuration they are correct. It wouldn't be that hard to mod the trailer though. Where the snap-up brackets mount has to be a box frame, not the C channel you have. At least it appears the flat portion is on the inside in the photo. If the flat part is outbourd it would be possible to mount the brackets without mods. I believe a good welder could add an adequate plate to make it work. Class 5 receiver won't help much because there is still too much weight on the hitch. A weight distribution hitch will transfer part of the hitch weight to the front axle of the truck and also to the axles of the trailer.

 

[KLauber]

Hills scorch

Ken, Harvey is right about the 4. 10 gears. I was loaded at almost 24k and had to stop on some Greenville-like uphills. I thought I was going to scorch everything in the trans trying to get going with my 3. 73 gears. I used you as an excuse to talk to Rick at McElrath. He went online and looked at your rig and said he thought he could make something you would be happy with. I even got my commission worked out: If he sells you a trailer, he'll buy me dinner at the Beacon (beacon.com). One more thing: you want your big water tank crossways. Longways, the water sloshing back and forth is a royal pain. Mark

I figured the scorching issue on the first load. Lesson learned is do not stop on a hill, just keep going if at all possible... . A tank baffle will help the slosh if one can be found and installed with little pain... .

Went to Beacon for lunch when Will was 6, my arteries are just now unclogging...



Ken

 

[kenny61]

Ken,



I'm in my busy mode so I'll give you the quick and easy one and will go into a little more detail when I get a chance. . Your tool box, if not bolted down but definitely the orange cones which I presume are not attached to anything would constitute an "unsecure load" I also just learened that legislation was, if not enacated, voted on to make it illegal to have an unsecured dog in the back of your truck.....

 

[HBarlow]

The guy at Wags RV is steering me wrong then, he said it was rated to 10 grand and that leveling bars wouldn't work on the type of trailer I have. Maybe I need a CLass 5 receiver (even on a dually in case I do not pick up a gooseneck trailer) then?

Ken

Ken,

I think we are talking about two different objects. The receiver is the female part under the truck. The hybrid pintle hook drawbar probably is rated for 10k but is useless in your application. The long drawbar extending several inches from the receiver's opening acts as a long lever arm and, with the extreme tongue weight, exerts tremendous twisting downforce on the receiver. The OEM receiver will fail shortly if used as is.

The weakest link determines actual carrying capacity. In your case, the weakest link is the hitch receiver bolted under the truck. Your salesman is either stupid or took advantage by selling you something unneeded and inappropriate. If your hybrid pintle hook draw bar were installed on my cab and chassis with fabricated steel bed it would be fine but still unnecessary. My bed has the receiver built in as a structural part of the steel bed. All you need is a standard drawbar and strong ball.

I have and use a solid steel drawbar rated at something like 12,000 lbs. with a 2 5/16" (gooseneck) ball rated at 30,000 lbs. It is an inexpensive Putnam product purchased from Southwest Wheel.

The RV salesman may be correct. The frame rails of that trailer may be too thick and tall for the flipover brackets of a normal weight distributing hitch assembly. If that is correct, it is further reason you need a dually and gooseneck trailer. As Gary Ames wrote, a good welder/fabricator could modify the trailer's A frame to accept a weight distributing hitch but I think you said the trailer is rented?

You should really load that trailer and take the truck and trailer to a scale and determine actual tongue weight by weighing the truck with and without the trailer on the ball. That trailer and pintle hook would be okay on a dually with a steel bed and built in hitch receiver but I think it is too heavy for your 2500. Only a scale can tell us the true weights.

I wouldn't consider towing that rented trailer loaded as it is with a Ram 2500. As a minimum you need a dually, a Class V receiver, and WD hitch, I would trade the rented trailer for a rented gooseneck behind a dually. Gooseneck trailers are designed for the loads you are going to be hauling and will perform much better and safer.

 

[kenny61]

His truck weigh in at 9720# I would guess that he has roughly 2000# tongue weight

 

[steved]

I would guess that he has roughly 2000# tongue weight

Maybe without any water in that 500 gallon tank!!

 

[steved]

What will you be placarded as? Assuming its commercial?