3500 CC w/Aisin & 4:10's for daily driver??

[LBARTLETT]

I'm looking at bidding on a repo'd 07' 6. 7 single cab 4X4 flat bed with the Aisin 6 speed auto and 4:10 gears, has about 10,000 miles on it



presently I have and 01' auto with 3:53 gears, 90% of my travel is empty and 10% is towing but towing very heavy, I've gotten along really well with my 01' and locking my Goerend out of OD and tunning 65 mph loaded



I know I would be very happy with the truck I'm looking at loaded but would I hate it empty or is the Aisin in a CC geared high enough to compensate for the 4:10's?



was there any other option than 4:10's in the 07' C&C's?



empty on the road I run 70-75 mph, would the mpg's kill me if I don't run 65 mph



thanks for your thought, experiences

 

[HBarlow]

You would be very satisfied with a C&C w/Aisin & 4. 10 gears.

I think you'll find sixth OD w/4. 10 very close to your OD w/3. 54 gears.

I never remember engine rpm exactly but sixth gear overdrive is about 2100 at 70 mph iirc. When I'm towing my own fiver I find sixth too tall unless I kick the speed up to 65 mph. I like to run about 62 mph with trailer in tow and fifth is a better choice unless on absolutely flat ground. In rolling hills sixth is too tall at that speed.

Your truck's ability to start a load will seem very weak once you try the Aisin behind the ISB6. 7 using 4. 10 gears.

 

[DGamelin]

I agree with Harvey, I wish I had the setup you are looking at. These big over drives in the 6. 7 autos will let you get away with more gear making the rest of the drive train work less.



_________________________

93 250 2wd xc 354 auto 272k

04. 5 3500 4wd qc dully 373 6speed 94k

 

[LBARTLETT]

thanks guys, I missed the deal so I'll keep driving the paid for 01' but I really appreciate your input

 

[SmithMark]

mine is setup like what you were looking at. 15k on odometer, getting 14. 2 empty and 9. 7 or slighltly better ,hauling 13k. empty that 14. 2mpg is obtained running 75mph at 2,000 rpm and I actually am getting about 14. 5 driving around town empty



My old 96 12valve 3500 would have done no better at that speed because the rpms would have been much higher. It was tapped out at nearly 3,000 rpm at its top speed of 82mpg. Loved that old truck, but this one is MUCH better. the power and the engine brake are wonderful.

Oh, and I drive it daily to work and pretty much everywhere I go, because it is so handy and so much fun to drive. My jeep unlimited and my 73 cuda sit neglected.

 

[morbius]

My '08 3500 dually with 4. 10 and 6 speed auto runs 1850 at 70 MPH in full overdrive. At 75 (speedo reading), I am about 2000 rpm. I keep seeing people talk about 2100 rpm at 70 ..... Is this based on a recalibrated speedo or GPS ? I know my speedo at 70 is off by 3 mph (reads high). Just wondering cause my dash readings are more like SmithMark's.



Cheers,

Roberto

 

[HBarlow]

My '08 3500 dually with 4. 10 and 6 speed auto runs 1850 at 70 MPH in full overdrive. At 75 (speedo reading), I am about 2000 rpm. I keep seeing people talk about 2100 rpm at 70 ..... Is this based on a recalibrated speedo or GPS ? I know my speedo at 70 is off by 3 mph (reads high). Just wondering cause my dash readings are more like SmithMark's.

Cheers,
Roberto

I think if you take your VIN to a dealer and ask them to enter it into their computer you'll find your truck actually has 3. 73 gears. Mine was ordered with a 4. 10 gear and 4. 10 is indicated on the MSRP window sticker and dealer invoice. It runs at about 2150 rpm @ 70mph in 6th gear/2nd OD. If I use the tow/haul mode when towing 6th gear is locked out and it runs 2150 at 62 mph which is perfect for hilly terrain when towing a heavy fiver.

 

[morbius]

I think if you take your VIN to a dealer and ask them to enter it into their computer you'll find your truck actually has 3. 73 gears. Mine was ordered with a 4. 10 gear and 4. 10 is indicated on the MSRP window sticker and dealer invoice. It runs at about 2150 rpm @ 70mph in 6th gear/2nd OD. If I use the tow/haul mode when towing 6th gear is locked out and it runs 2150 at 62 mph which is perfect for hilly terrain when towing a heavy fiver.

Will do and thanks ! The window sticker says 4. 10 and limited slip, but then my dodge dealer was a pretty shady group of people (long gone now). Would not surprise if whats installed is not what we wanted (rear end slips all the time).



Cheers.

 

[Barry]

Whatdidyoufindout?

 

[HBarlow]

The thought didn't occur to me earlier when Morbius posted his original question but maybe his sixth gear/second od ratio with the MOPAR auto six speed is that different from the ratio of my Aisin six speed automatic.

I remember reading a chart somewhere comparing the ratios between MOPAR and Aisin auto six speeds and there is a difference. I wasn't thinking it was that large but maybe it is.

Can anyone else with a MOPAR 68RE and 4. 10 gears comment on this?

Or can anyone post the ratios of the MOPAR six speed automatic?

Here are the Aisin, MOPAR 68RE, and G-56 ratios:

--------Aisin------- 68RE -----------G-56

1 --- 3. 74:1 ------3. 23 ----------- 5. 94:1
2 --- 2. 00:1 ------1. 83 ----------- 3. 28:1
3 --- 1. 34:1 ------1. 41 ----------- 1. 98:1
4 --- 1. 00:1 ------1. 00 ----------- 1. 31:1
5 --- 0. 77:1 ------0. 81 ----------- 1. 00:1
6 --- 0. 63:1 ------0. 62 ----------- 0. 74:1

Rev - 3. 54:1 ----- 4. 44 ----------- 5. 42:1

Standard axle ratios (3500): ------- 4500---------5500
Aisin 4. 10 Optional None------------4. 44/4. 88-------?
G-56 3. 73 Optional 4. 10

Specs above from 2008 Ram Cab and Chassis Brochure. 68RE specs provided by DGamelin below.

 

[Barry]

Uncle Harvey,



When I bought my truck in March of '06, I had just gotten into a big State Farm deal with 204 trailers. I called my Dodge dealer and told them to find a truck with my usual specs and get it ready. Never did like the color.



Little did I know that the "new" 6 speed G56 was a whole different animal than my 4 other 6 speed bolt action trannies.



When did they change all the ratios in the later G56 trannie and is there a different identifier for the later version?



Also, if you compare the progression of ratios in all the gears of both the Aisin and the G56, it would just not make any sense to have 3:73 gears behind the Aisin... ... ... ... ... ... ... unless you just wanted to go to the grocery store.

 

[DGamelin]

68rfe



1- 3. 23

2- 1. 83

3- 1. 41

4- 1. 00

5- 0. 81

6- 0. 62



R- 4. 44

 

[Wiredawg]

Interesting facts on the Aisin and 3500 C&C... my 4500 Aisin w/ 4. 44:1 sees about 2100 at 70 mph. Are the OEM tires on 4500 taller than tires on 3500 to account for approx 100 rpm? I'm seeing about 10 -12 mpg empty. I believe my city driving and having to kick it in the but to get up to speed on 100 foot acceleration lane to dump onto Interstate 10. Also, moving into traffic, you can't wait 'til you can't see anything coming... so again kicking in the but and manuevering that beast. Tow/haul mode is like driving a big heavy Corvette (ha ha), the transmission downshift and hits the exhaust brake, which is also more agressive. Except for lights, I can accelerate/declerate quickly. I do touch brakes to let folks behind me to let them know I'm slowing down, but then the transmission downshifts again with agessive exhaust brake. Wow. I would play with it w/ exhaust brake off, but 5 Star recommended never turnikng it off, except in slippery conditions. I believe keeping it on and using the exhaust brake in double overdrive mode is keeping my DPF good. I went over 7,500 and need to go see my 5 Star fo my free oil change. I'm gonna ask them if I can watch. I'm not used to having other folks change my oil. Wanna see what it looks like.



Anyway, neat post on Aisins and drive ratios.



wiredawg

 

[HBarlow]

Uncle Harvey,

When I bought my truck in March of '06, I had just gotten into a big State Farm deal with 204 trailers. I called my Dodge dealer and told them to find a truck with my usual specs and get it ready. Never did like the color.

Little did I know that the "new" 6 speed G56 was a whole different animal than my 4 other 6 speed bolt action trannies.

When did they change all the ratios in the later G56 trannie and is there a different identifier for the later version?

Also, if you compare the progression of ratios in all the gears of both the Aisin and the G56, it would just not make any sense to have 3:73 gears behind the Aisin... ... ... ... ... ... ... unless you just wanted to go to the grocery store.

Barry,

The G-56 was first installed in late '05 in early MY06 Rams as an "AD" version. I test drove one and didn't like it and ordered one with a 48RE. The G-56 transmission was apparently designed for use in low horsepower German box trucks, maybe in city delivery applications.

Later, perhaps sometime in mid-2007(?) Dodge apparently persuaded Daimler or or the Brazilian manufacturer who actually builds it to create an "AE" version with gear ratios better for the American highways and light truck applications it is used in.

GAmes put an AD version G-56 in his 12 valve '97 with 3. 54 gears recently and loves it. I think the AE version is better with the 3. 73 gear sets in AAM axles.

 

[HBarlow]

Dan,

Thanks for the 68RE ratios. I copied them into my earlier post above to provide a table where all three transmissions, AS68, 68RE, and G-56 can be compared.

 

[HBarlow]

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..... Are the OEM tires on 4500 taller than tires on 3500 to account for approx 100 rpm? wiredawg

Yes. IIRC your 19. 5" wheels/tires are approximately 0. 5" taller. Not very much at all but combined with the 4. 44 rear gears in your 4500 it apparently makes that small amount of difference.

There may also be small speedometer errors in each truck that help explain the difference. By GPS my truck speedometer reads approx 1 mph faster than over the ground speed by gps. Ditto my previous '06.

It could be minor read errors on our speedometers and tachometers also. What is the term for that? Parallax?

 

[NIsaacs]

May be of some intrest, gear ratios of Ford and Chevy. Note, no direct for the Ford?





Allison 1000 Ford Auto



1st..... 3. 10 3. 97

2nd... . 1. 81 2. 32

3rd..... 1. 41 1. 52

4th..... 1. 00 1. 15

5th..... 0. 71 0. 86

6th..... 0. 61 0. 67

rev..... 4. 49 3. 13



Nick

 

[Barry]

With regard to speedometers... ... ...

My '06 speedo was always 3 mph fast with OEM Michelins. When I had the Ricksons installed with 225/70/19. 5s the speedo went dead on. Now when approaching a roadside radar device, my speedo, GPS and the radar all agree.

And because I have one of the early G56s and 3:73s, I'm geared kinda tight. I needed the extra 3 mph and hope to get another 3 mph when I go up to 245s.

Maybe one of these days, one of my dealers will trade for a nice low mileage 3500 SRW with an Aisin and 4:10s... ... ... ... ... . I would be tempted. Swap all my equipment over (that would fit) and keep rolling!

mi dos centavos... ... .

 

[HBarlow]

May be of some intrest, gear ratios of Ford and Chevy. Note, no direct for the Ford?


Allison 1000 Ford Auto

1st..... 3. 10 3. 97
2nd... . 1. 81 2. 32
3rd..... 1. 41 1. 52
4th..... 1. 00 1. 15
5th..... 0. 71 0. 86
6th..... 0. 61 0. 67
rev..... 4. 49 3. 13

Nick

Nick,

I can't offer any proof for this opinion but I believe it will eventually be revealed that the new Furd six speed automatic was manufactured by Aisin. Furd fans currently want to believe it was designed and manufactured in-house personally by a long dead but recently resurrected Henry Ford. I think Furd simply outsourced it as Dodge has for C&C trucks and Cummins engines and as Furd has previously done for diesel engines.

 

[morbius]

Will do and thanks ! The window sticker says 4. 10 and limited slip, but then my dodge dealer was a pretty shady group of people (long gone now). Would not surprise if whats installed is not what we wanted.



Cheers.

Took the truck in today have a recall dealt with and they confirmed the VIN, its a 4. 10 rear end as I had ordered. Now without pulling the cover and doing a visual inspection, going to have to go with it for now. At 70 MPH, I read 1850 rpm on the tach with its in drive and no tow/haul mode.