Truck will not start - dealer wants to replace fuel system!

[TCDiesel]

I posted at your original thread and challenged Fass and Airdog ,Neither excepted or commented,fass and Airdog are great for race and pulling,they were NEVER designed for filtration,anyone form Fass or Airdog that claims they have proper filtration to stop what happen to You (Wygate) either knows nothing about how to stop it or is lying. I have lost count on the customers that have purchase hard Parts from Us that have fass and Airdog Pumps. other companies are at leased recognizing the problem and are trying increase there filtration. Any ADD-on is better than none,But why go through all the effort only to be hoping you solved the problem. Members and guests Don't follow the Jamestown Koolaid Cheerleaders , Make FASS and and Airdog guarantee results when it comes to filtration,Buy Fass and Airdog for Race ,Track or off road, NOT filtration.

 

[Wingate]

Airdog that claims they have proper filtration to stop what happen to You (Wingate) either knows nothing about how to stop it or is lying. QUOTE]





HUH????? Something happened to my truck!!!... WHAT??? It BETTER be in my driveway with the tailgate down and needing a day at the spa for a clean-up and detail. If not, my wife is gonna end up on the back of a milk carton!!!.



Seriously, I think you mean Wygate... I kinda wish that the moderators hadn't let one of us have a name so close to the other... . its gonna get confusing.

 

[TCDiesel]

Sorry... ... .

 

[SandyHelton]

Does anyone know what the bolt size is when pulling the drive gear from the CP3? I need to pick up or borrow a gear puller so that I can remove the CP3.



After finally getting a nice day to work on the truck last weekend, I found that I was no longer getting fuel out of the CP3 as I had prior to my visit to the dealer. I pulled the banjo bolt from the inlet line to the CP3 and it looked all rusty. I took a few swabs and cleaned out the banjo bolt. The pictures show the swabs covered with what I looks like a waxy material. It is likely the result of using very high percentage home brewed BioDiesel.



At this point, I'd have to say that neither Dodge, the fuel dealer or my insurance company are responsible for this - I am.



I have now removed most of the fuel system components and will be cleaning them or replacing them as I see fit. I think the biggest task will be what to do about the CP3.

 

[Wingate]

I would just buy a reman or aftermarket pump. Maybe now is the perfect time for a Floor-It Stage 3??? Before you do that, are you absolutely sure its not just the FCA not allowing the pump to spool???

Maybe get some clean #2 in a bucket and an electric pump and push it into the CP3, then spin the engine over several times... . maybe pull the FCA and attempt to clean??... I would try anyway before I pulled the pump.

I've never used any bio fuels, but I'm assuming that what makes the fuel bad isn't contamination, but the chemical composition itself. If thats the case, better filtration isn't going to help. hhmmm. .

 

[sag2]

I ran into a tech from the dealer at school and he recalled the truck and the tech rep coming out. After verifying cam, crank, actual set pressure they knew it had everything it needed to start and run. He said they ran at least two gallons of clean fuel straight to the lift pump and had the truck idling on propane trying to clean it up, but it would not stay running on it's own. By that time the damage had already started, and it only gets worse the longer it sits.

As for the loose lines, I can't say, but I know the dealer already had to have put a bunch of time in it (those guys are flat rate, and they only get paid for the number of hours they charged you, no matter how long they spent) that you or the factory was not going to pay, and it had to come back apart anyway to repair it properly. Not saying it is right, but now knowing the real story (home brewed Bio) I think perhaps the dealer might have been misled just a tad.

So I'm still right with the dealer on this one. They have to be informed of the complete story or they can't make a good diagnosis. Had you drained the fuel and flushed the system before taking it in, they would still be guessing as to the failure, because they are looking for defects first, not outside influences. It is up to the customer to come clean right from the start, or you get just what you got in this case, a real mess. The dealer made a good diagnosis from the very beginning, and dragging it out only caused more damage from the fuel being in contact with the parts longer than it should have. You might have saved some of the parts in the beginning, but now your probably going to need everything.

There were no winners in this situation. Your going to spend a bunch of money, the technician lost a bunch of his time he could have been working on a good paying job, the factory gets a black eye for trying to protect themselves from future losses, from something beyond their control. I hope this is a good learning experience for those that are thinking of ignoring what is printed in their owners manual. Some times those idiot engineers aren't so dumb after all.

 

[SandyHelton]

That is certainly not the story they gave me either. They tried to hid behind the Dodge story line and did the least possible prior to claiming that the fuel was bad. As it turns out, the fuel in the tank wasn't bad - which I knew - it was the build up over the years that caused this issue.



Sag2, you said you spoke to the tech at school and you didn't let me know the whole story, thanks... I guess no one wants to tip his hand.



I came clean here because I have a lot of respect for other in this forum and I know that their are a lot of others here who home brew. Bio is not the issue here and I still believe that home brewing fuel can be done safely and with good results. What this situation does illustrate is that poorly done fuel will foul up these sophisticated fuel systems and that we must be on the lookout for any build up or find a way to not let it get passed the filtration. A by product of BioDiesel production is soap and we do a lot to see that it is removed from the final product. I would speculate that I didn't do enough on some batches.

 

[KLauber]

Try WVO blended with diesel. No chemistry involved, just good filtration required in the manufacture. See Craig Hall's thread in Alternative Fuels for how its done.

Ken

 

[SandyHelton]

The saga continues...

I've spent the past few months tearing down my fuel system, thoroughly cleaning all parts which contained any fuel and rebuilding it with a new CP3, new injectors, and a new lift pump and filtration system.

However, it still does not start!

The following are the things I have tried in order to determine what is wrong. I am using an Auto Enginuity OBD-II ScanTool to monitor the trucks system and I can monitor the rail pressure among many other items.

Rail Pressure during cranking is about 500-550 PSI.
CP3 output to the common rail was measured three times with increasingly lower RPM's each time. measured values were test#1 - 110ml/30sec. , #2 - 85ml/30sec. , #3 - 80ml/30sec. @ 100RPM. These look good from what I have found in various threads.
Performed Injector Return Flow test. No fuel was returned at all! Return from the CP3 was 795ml/min.

I replaced the High Pressure pressure sending unit on the CR, but rail pressure readings did not change. I was at one point throwing a CAM sending unit code, but after replacing the CAM sending unit that code stopped appearing. I have also checked the oil for fuel or a change in level, but none has been noticed. I removed the value cover while cranking and saw no fuel spray or sign of fuel leakage into the valve area.

My main question is where do I go now? I still have low rail pressure, but cannot find a reason for it. I also have no injector return flow, which to me indicates a blockage in the return circuit, but how do I address that and could it somehow help to explain why I get low rail pressure?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated...

 

[TCDiesel]

Unplug the fca and report Back,lets start here..... rail pressure should max out truck will start BUT do not drive it.

 

[cerberusiam]

Unplug the fca and report Back,lets start here..... rail pressure should max out truck will start BUT do not drive it.

Second that, then check your injector return at that point. I'm not sure with what you reported as rail pressure any fuel was getting to the injectors.

 

[SandyHelton]

Unplugging the FCA does not cause an increase in rail pressure. At times it seems like it wants to start and it backfires exhaust into the intake making its way all the way back to the air cleaner.

 

[SandyHelton]

I also cracked open the top fittings on the common rail to see if I had flow to it while the system was lightly pressurized. I was able to see a small amount of flow with air bubbles and then I tighten them back up.

If the injector bypass is clogged, could trapped air be sufficient to cause the rail pressure to be limited?

 

[TCDiesel]

How are you reading the rail pressure off the pressure sensor or OBD port?

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

Was the pressure relief valve on the rail replaced?

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[SandyHelton]

I guess I've been assuming that it comes from the pressure sensor, but I am using a diagnostic tool which reads it via the ODBII port. I am using a Auto Enginuity Scan Tool.

 

[SandyHelton]

Was the pressure relief valve on the rail replaced?



Godspeed,

Trent

No, but when testing flow from the injector return the port was left disconnected and no fuel came out of that tube. I also early on took the banjo bolt off and it was dry as a bone on top of the relief valve.

 

[TCDiesel]

If it is warm (Ambient), and you feel comfortable feathering it on starting fluid try it.

 

[SandyHelton]

I finally got a chance to work on my truck this last weekend. I was able to get the truck started by lightly using starting fluid in the air intake at the air filter. It started right up and it runs continuously as long as I keep the engine running above about 1500RPM. All during the running, I had very heavy white smoke. Included with the white smoke was a black oily material out of the exhaust system. I assume that this is oil, but could it be excess fuel from all the prior cranking blacken by the exhaust system components?

In any event, the AutoEnginuity still does not give the proper value for the rail pressure (it seems as if its off by a factor of ten). There does appear to be the ability to add a scaling factor, but I have no idea of how to calibrate it.
Has anyone used the AE for monitoring rail pressure?

 

[MAshley]

Sandy





Sorry I can't help you much with your starting issue but I would like to lean a little about how you go to where you are now.



In reading Please correct me if im wrong it appears that you have been producing Bio and using it in your turck... Do you feel that your issues are from your own fuel? Or was this fuel bought from a station that has bio? Are the issues basically a gummin up of the works or did it actually destroy like rust up the parts of the fuel system?



Thanks

Dave