svo / wvo horror stories

[guldam]

Before I dump that first gallon of "super clean" WVO in my tank, do any members here have horror stories of WVO experiences, like piston ring and valve coking?



Yes, I am skeered.



GulDam

 

[guldam]

Like this story:



WVO no more-My Tragic Greaser Story - TDIClub Forums



Not a Cummins but still...

 

[surfbeetle]

I tried very briefly running some bio diesel in my 12 valve. What I didn't like about it was that it would not idle until warmed up. It acted like an old carbureted engine that didn't have a choke with the stepped up throttle rest to increase rpms. Don't know if WVO will be the same or not.

 

[guldam]

Thanks for the report. Your experience would appear to be very unusual. For some reason it seems to very difficult to find many horror stories or just negative reports on using WVO, and BioDiesel. Why?



Could it be that folks are reticent to report negative results for fear of being accused of being incompetent or ignorant in their testing, use of alternative fuels and conversion of their vehicles? Other reasons? Or are there few bad experiences? I wonder.



I want to know about the very worse scenario, how to avoid it and how to detect problems before they happen.



Here's one of very few seemingly neutral (no preconceived results or opinion. ) reports I've been able to find.



http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/idahovegoilslitreview.pdf



Conclusions

Many studies involving use of un-modifed vegetable oils in blend ratios with diesel fuel exceeding 20 percent were conducted in the early 1980’s. Short-term engine testing indicates that vegetable oils can readily be used as a fuel source when the vegetable oils are used alone or are blended with diesel fuel. Long-term engine research shows that engine durability is questionable when fuel blends contain more than 20% vegetable oil by volume. More work is needed to determine if fuel blends containing less than 20% vegetable oil can be used successfully as diesel fuel extenders.



For my own education I hope to read some of the references listed at the end of this report and continue my own research.



I've got 55 gallons of de-watered and filtered to 1 micron and centrifuged, WGO being delivered tomorrow. But before I put any into my truck I will let it rest for a few weeks to see if it settles out any solids, and I will test for water, and test the PH. Of course I may chicken out today and cancel the order.



I see this and I am concerned:



From JourneytoForever:



Myth: Mix it with diesel fuel or kerosene, then just put it in and go.



Examples:



* "I've been running a vegoil/diesel mix, 50/50 winter 70/30 summer. "



* "I'm running on about 50% petro-diesel to 50% veg-oil, no problems!"



* "I use 90% WVO and 10% kerosene as my standard summer fuel. "



Responses from seasoned SVO users:



* "Your cold starts will begin to deteriorate, your filter will probably start plugging, your injectors will get coked up, setting the stage for ring sticking, glazing of the cylinder walls, increased lube oil consumption and eventual engine failure -- if you can continue to get the thing started in the morning. More than 20% or so veg-oil in the diesel is not a good plan for more than short term 'experiments'. "



* "Mixing veg-oil and diesel isn't advisable unless you heat all the fuel. "



We've said much the same: "You'll need what amounts to an SVO system with fuel pre-heating anyway. "



GulDam

I tried very briefly running some bio diesel in my 12 valve. What I didn't like about it was that it would not idle until warmed up. It acted like an old carbureted engine that didn't have a choke with the stepped up throttle rest to increase rpms. Don't know if WVO will be the same or not.

 

[surfbeetle]

I think my issues were mainly because the 12 valves are all mechanical, there's nothing there to compensate for the variations in rpm. When I ran it in the diesel suburban I used to have, it was electronic injection and it always idled fine even when cold. But as you say it could have been the way my supplier was creating the fuel.

 

[ewcmr2]

For the last three years I've been "recycling" the Little Leauge snack bar fry oil by filtering it and pouring it in my 50gal in bed tank.



I haven't done any real testing. Most of the time I'd guess it's less than B20. At those low levels I haven't noticed any differences/changes.



One time I had the aux tank full of SVO and went on a trip, didn't feel like stopping for more diesel and continued to add SVO (I'd guess I was running 90% SVO) to the main tank. While driving I noticed no differences/changes. The next morning it was 45*-50* and the truck didn't want to start without lots of pedal and wouldn't idle.



On the way to the nearest gas station the engine was much less responsive and smoked much more. After adding 60 gallons of #2 it went right back to normal.



Not much of a horror story but I'm not going to run SVO at high percentages again...

 

[surfbeetle]

ewcmr2,

The systems out there that use veggie oil, use a tank with a some sort of heating mechanism to heat the oil and you use two tanks, one with straight diesel and the other is veggie. You start and stop with diesel and once heated, use the veggie oil. This way the system is purged of veggie oil and you can cold start the truck.

 

[WyattEarp]

I have done the same, i have ran a mix? how much i don't know and i have ran straight veggie which i got from a store in 4. 5 gal containers that went out of date, i exp. the low rpm at start up until warm, as well as having to give good throttle for a few min then it was fine, now im guessing i have ran probably 40-50 gal through it i know of at least 20 straight and no issues with filter or ill effects other than the mentioned above. the reason for rough idle with a diesel/wvo mix is the wvo sinks and the pump picks it up first as it is heavier but after prob 5 min of running it sits and idles just as if it was on straight #2 and thats with straight wvo, but these are my exp's

 

[guldam]

This morning I talked to a fellow who currently makes his own biodiesel. Has been doing this for about four years. Previously he ran a VW diesel with a separate SVO tank with heaters etc. He had to do some work on the engine at one point and he decided to pull the head. Found "the nastiest looking crusty gunk" he's ever seen. At that point he abandoned straight veggie oil and started running biodiesel. He runs two diesel cars with his home brew and has had zero problems. He is now very wary of running SVO. One man's story, different than other stories, but certainly one to contemplate.

How many of you folks running SVO, or WVO and Diesel Blends or other blends have had occasion to pull your head and see what the valve train looks like after 20-30-40 thousand miles or more. Some of the literature says that you will see decreased engine life. How much? No one seems to be willing to say or hypothesize.

I have a 55 gallon drum in the truck ready for cleaning and then receiving 55 gallons of WVO in the morning.

BioDiesel was $4. 01 a gallon this morning. I love the smell, the truck seems to like it fine, but I sure don't like paying that much.

Funny, I pumped in half a tank of biodiesel today and like many diesel pumps this one was rather leaky. I got biodiesel on both hands. Kept wiping with a red rag. And then got into the truck and realized there was no stench. No smell of diesel. It was rather floral, and clean smelling. This is stuff that was going in my tank. Wow.

GulDam

 

[Dieselnut59]

I have never wanted to run SVO, but I have been blending up to 50/50% waste cooking oil (settled and filtered to 10 microns) for several years. It works well in all my vehicles and equipment. I cannot run it in that high of concentration in my ATV or Liberty in the Winter because the viscosity is too thick for their electric transfer pumps, but 30% still works well in them then. The two tank SVO system would not work for me because I have so many different vehicles/equipment that I run it in. Blending works great but I am still looking into refining. After about four years, I have had zero problems, after the initial fuel filter clogging. Yes, the cooking oil DOES clean the fuel system!

 

[guldam]

I've finally started running 100% BioDiesel and have been for a week. Up til now I've been running half tanks, quarter tanks etc and have had no issues. This last batch of 100% BioDiesel however has me a little concerned. Last night the Water in Filter light came on. I drained the filter housing, and saw no water, but after re-priming the light went out. Perhaps the 100% BioDiesel is doing a super cleaning job, or it has water in it, or it was coincidence that the light came on. This is the first time. Truck runs fine.

I have another 55 gallons of this BioDiesel under the boat shed, and an additional 55 gallons of 1 micron filtered and dewatered WVO. I've been chicken to use the WVO.

Ordering more filters today in case I burn through a bunch of them until the fuel system is totally cleaned out.

GulDam

 

[Dieselnut59]

@guldam, I would not be scared to run it. I have been running a 50% blend of WVO filtered to 10 microns, blended with 50% diesel fuel and filtered again at 10 microns as it goes in the truck/equipment. No WIF light, no problems. Been doing this several years in my '96 and a couple years in everything else.

 

[guldam]

A few weeks ago I added 5 gallons of the 1 micron filtered WVO to my B100. The truck did not like it. I have to give the pedal a dab to get started now.



And to top it off I got a bad batch of B100 from my "supplier" a few weeks ago. Pumped in a few gallons to clear out the pump, then pulled a quart sample and set it aside. Then I pumped in enough B100 for half a tank.



Later I looked at my sample, and too my horror it was full of floating particles. Let it settle over night and I had a distinct layer of sludge at the bottom. This is about 1/5 of a quart of white stuff.



Talked to some folks on a biodiesel forum, and they suggested I run some tests. So I ran the 3/27 test, and it resulted in a distinct separation of methanol and biodiesel. This indicates an incomplete reaction in the conversion of WVO to Biodiesel.



I then ran a wash test and added about half water to this funky B100, shook it up, and it separated into three distinct layers. Top layer cloudy BioDiesel, thick middle layer of coagulated mayonnaise looking fats, and bottom layer of cloudy water. It should separate into two layers, not three, and certainly not with a mayo layer.



My producer has said he'll make it right, but I have doubts that he will, and doubts that he is actually able to produce quality B100.



And so I have 100 gallons of crap B100 sitting in my garage that I'm afraid to use. And add another 50 gallons of WVO I'm afraid to use.



So yesterday I filled up with DinoDiesel and will run this until I can find well processed B100.



For sure, I will now pre-test all B100 before I put it in my tank.



And now I'm left wondering if I have clogged up injectors and or injection pump. Trying to figure out if I can clear out any gunk without having to drop my tank and flush the whole system out.



I've learned my lesson. :{



GulDam

@guldam, I would not be scared to run it. I have been running a 50% blend of WVO filtered to 10 microns, blended with 50% diesel fuel and filtered again at 10 microns as it goes in the truck/equipment. No WIF light, no problems. Been doing this several years in my '96 and a couple years in everything else.

 

[guldam]

This is what a bad batch of BioDiesel looks like when you do a wash test.



I'd recommend anyone producing their own BioDiesel, or buying it from commercial producers or non-commercial producers do this test BEFORE putting it in your tank. The misery of bad fuel is just not worth it.



GulDam

 

[Dieselnut59]

That looks rough!!! Before I do anything, I let my oil settle out. I then drain the sludge out through the bottom drain on the collection tank. I filter it to 10 microns into the blending tank. It is then filtered one final time before going into the vehicle's/equipment's tank. The thicker, saturated "sludge" will pass through a filter, but will cause a disgusting mess. I use it as a bonfire starter and it smells like a cookout! LOL

 

[bigrick53]

how cold is out side ?

 

[KLauber]

Do not mix WVO and B100, the chemical reaction will likely re-start if the B-100 is poorly washed of the methanol and NaOH. Mix your WVO with diesel and motor safely.

Ken

 

[guldam]

Ken,

I finally figured this out. The WVO wasn't so much the issue, rather it was the BAD B100 I got. I did a bunch of testing of both the WVO and the BAD B100, and the B100 had an incomplete reaction, was not washed, and was not dried, and the dipstick who sold it to me didn't even bother to filter it. Silly me to trust him. The first batch I got from him was good, and so I then trusted him to sell me the same. I now will test each and every batch before putting it in my tank. 3/27, and shake em up test will be the minimal testing.



GulDam

Do not mix WVO and B100, the chemical reaction will likely re-start if the B-100 is poorly washed of the methanol and NaOH. Mix your WVO with diesel and motor safely.



Ken

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Back on the subject of running WVO I ran maybe 30-40 gallons in my '96 once at up to 30% mixed with diesel and a little gas, but I didn't have the best injectors at the time and it didn't seem to burn as well as it could have (made more blue smoke starting up). Also I made the mistake of doing it in rather cold weather. Anyway I did pull the head on it and didn't see much evidence of problems other than there was a small amount of hard coked-on residue at the top of the cylinder walls where the rings stop but that was it. There was some on the injector tips too that was difficult to scrape off. But this was at least 40,000 miles since the last drop of veggie oil was burned.

I think running WVO it is important to not run the engine on it cold, the thing is to make sure you have clean combustion and that essentially means a two-tank preheating system. The sticky tacky nature of vegetable oil causes it to stick to everything in the combustion chamber and valves when vaporized during incomplete/cold combustion. This is happening when there is blue or grayish smoke accompanied by the smoldering veggie oil smell. And unfortunately bring the engine to temp and working it hard and getting it good and hot doesn't burn it off, it bakes it on.

 

[rMetzger]

Got a buddy who has the two-tank system in his 7. 3L Excursion. Even with heating, the WVO he runs gives his lift pump trouble. Don't think he's thrashed any injectors yet, but, I haven't visited with him in a while, either.

He filters down to 1micron, and I've run some of his in my truck, up to about 50-60%

Wound up needing new lift pump and new lines, and a lot of heater-screen declogging.

Could have been coincidental, being past 200K and all, but I've gone back to pump fuel.