Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Starter removal wrenches heads up!

[proflow]

Just a heads up to everyone:



The starters on our trucks DO come loose.

I found a loose starter on my buds truck throwing a spark across my shop floor.

I thought it was kinda funny until I found mine was the same.



Locktiite just came out w/some new stuff that works w/oil etc... .



Proflow

 

[JDavies]

I finally went and did it. I removed the plastic fender liner and cut out a fair sized section in the sheet metal inter splash guard with my saw-all and short torch blade. I had to move some wiring around. I re installed the linner with plastic wall anchors. I now have unrestricted access to starter and Fass lift pump. It helps to turn wheels hard right.

 

[Sticks]

I finally went and did it. I removed the plastic fender liner and cut out a fair sized section in the sheet metal inter splash guard with my saw-all and short torch blade. I had to move some wiring around. I re installed the linner with plastic wall anchors. I now have unrestricted access to starter and Fass lift pump. It helps to turn wheels hard right.

I could understand doing that if you had a Chevy or a Ford, but Dodge??? There is more than enough room to access everything from the top or underneath with ease, with the exception of the IAT sensor at the back of the head, where there is not much you can do other than work by brail.

 

[Bob Cochran]

I found unbolting the fuel filter and moving it around helped access everything on that side. Having said that I am not sure I did that for the starter when I removed the starter to replace contacts but probably as I don't recall a significant problem removing it. Maybe I was just lucky!!!

 

[JDavies]

what's it to you? my truck paid for. I notice in you profile that you have added a lot of "performance" goodies. Didn't it run well enough for you? Or did you just need bragging rights? I wasn't looking for an opinion. Just making a statement. I do a lot of other things that probably won't suit you. Are you the Ram forum police? This is the reason I'm not renewing my TDR subscription. I don't pay to get jumped on. I have make choices. Mine is to keep my Cessna 180 flying.

 

[Sticks]

what's it to you? my truck paid for. I notice in you profile that you have added a lot of "performance" goodies. Didn't it run well enough for you? Or did you just need bragging rights? I wasn't looking for an opinion. Just making a statement. I do a lot of other things that probably won't suit you. Are you the Ram forum police? This is the reason I'm not renewing my TDR subscription. I don't pay to get jumped on. I have make choices. Mine is to keep my Cessna 180 flying.

Whoa, calm down. Not jumping on you for cutting up your fender, just making an observation and wondering why, as ease of access to the engine components is not much of an issue.



Professional mechanic, and have a justified hatred of engineers that design vehicles and equipment without ever taking into consideration the maintenance and repair of these things they design.



Chevy 6. 2 & 6. 5 Diesels - righteous PITA to R&R injectors and glow plugs (especially the right/passengers side - good reason to cut the fender out), burying the fuel lines under the intake manifold, lower left injection pump mounting nut near impossible to get a wrench on.



Chevy Duramax - Step one in 95% of engine work; Drain the cooling system.



All Chevy pickups - nightmare to R&R engine & transmission due to 0 clearance around bell housing to unbolt transmission (good reason to cut out floorboard in cab)



Ford 7. 3 IDI - Hard plumed fuel lines & square cut O-rings on compression fittings.



Ford 7. 3 Powerstorke - Near impossible to get to turbo turbine clamps and outlet bolts.



Ford 6. 0 Powerstorke (first 2 years) 6 hours to change serpentine belt. All years - 50/50 chance of having to replace head gasket when changing glow plugs due to pressed in sleeve for glow plugs pass through cooling jacket and get pulled if glow plugs have carbon buildup. If it is a van body, you need to pull the cab. Faster and easier to pull the cab (2 hours) to do any major engine work than fighting around the lack of space.



Ford 6. 5(?) Powerstroke - 5 places total in engine compartment you can put your hand. in and actually touch the engine.



Dodge 5. 9 Cummins, all years. I got nothin'. Not one single thing in working on the engine I dread. The entire truck, anything dealing with the cab heater core, now that sucks. Everything else is a real piece of easy.



Now my truck... No it did not run good enough for me in stock configuration. At my altitude and the initial plans for the truck when I bought it were not going to handle what I wanted. Still the best option available at the time. Now I have it dialed in for my needs. Not a race truck. If I want speed and agility, I have my motorcycle. My truck is now set up for towing heavy in the mountains and being able to maintain something close to the speed limit, not being the poor guy in the right lane doing 30 mph climbing the passes.

 

[ghass]

Reinstalling hint

Putting a (heavy) starter back in posed a problem to me lying on my back under the truck... . Until I fished a rope loop through the top of engine and wrapped it around the starter. fastening the upper end on a long stick, my wife could easily move the stick up and down a little from above the truck so I could align the bolt holes. That worked slick.

 

[fest3er]

Pulling the starter is always a PITA. But I've always used the short 10mm box end wrench in my SD kit, using another larger wrench on the open end for leverage; if it's 4" long I'd be surprised. As said, it's a PITA, but it does work. Patience is your friend. Crawl under with a creeper and work by feel. Shoot, close your eyes or wear those 'sleeping' blinders if you have to. Have patience and learn how to feel the bolt and wrench. Some might say this is part of the zen of auto mechanics. And before you remove the last bolt completely, be sure you've rested up a bit; the starter is heavy, too heavy for tired wore-out arms to hold.

 

[Sticks]

Pulling the starter is always a PITA. But I've always used the short 10mm box end wrench in my SD kit, using another larger wrench on the open end for leverage; if it's 4" long I'd be surprised. As said, it's a PITA, but it does work. Patience is your friend. Crawl under with a creeper and work by feel. Shoot, close your eyes or wear those 'sleeping' blinders if you have to. Have patience and learn how to feel the bolt and wrench. Some might say this is part of the zen of auto mechanics. And before you remove the last bolt completely, be sure you've rested up a bit; the starter is heavy, too heavy for tired wore-out arms to hold.

And do not be lying directly underneath. Gravity is not your friend at this point.

 

[LarryB]

I use a stick of wood and a floor jack to lift on the end of the short wrench. Pops it every time.

LarryB

 

[ALepley]

Whoa, calm down. Not jumping on you for cutting up your fender, just making an observation and wondering why, as ease of access to the engine components is not much of an issue.



Professional mechanic, and have a justified hatred of engineers that design vehicles and equipment without ever taking into consideration the maintenance and repair of these things they design.



Chevy 6. 2 & 6. 5 Diesels - righteous PITA to R&R injectors and glow plugs (especially the right/passengers side - good reason to cut the fender out), burying the fuel lines under the intake manifold, lower left injection pump mounting nut near impossible to get a wrench on.



Chevy Duramax - Step one in 95% of engine work; Drain the cooling system.



All Chevy pickups - nightmare to R&R engine & transmission due to 0 clearance around bell housing to unbolt transmission (good reason to cut out floorboard in cab)



Ford 7. 3 IDI - Hard plumed fuel lines & square cut O-rings on compression fittings.



Ford 7. 3 Powerstorke - Near impossible to get to turbo turbine clamps and outlet bolts.



Ford 6. 0 Powerstorke (first 2 years) 6 hours to change serpentine belt. All years - 50/50 chance of having to replace head gasket when changing glow plugs due to pressed in sleeve for glow plugs pass through cooling jacket and get pulled if glow plugs have carbon buildup. If it is a van body, you need to pull the cab. Faster and easier to pull the cab (2 hours) to do any major engine work than fighting around the lack of space.



Ford 6. 5(?) Powerstroke - 5 places total in engine compartment you can put your hand. in and actually touch the engine.



Dodge 5. 9 Cummins, all years. I got nothin'. Not one single thing in working on the engine I dread. The entire truck, anything dealing with the cab heater core, now that sucks. Everything else is a real piece of easy.



Now my truck... No it did not run good enough for me in stock configuration. At my altitude and the initial plans for the truck when I bought it were not going to handle what I wanted. Still the best option available at the time. Now I have it dialed in for my needs. Not a race truck. If I want speed and agility, I have my motorcycle. My truck is now set up for towing heavy in the mountains and being able to maintain something close to the speed limit, not being the poor guy in the right lane doing 30 mph climbing the passes.

Couldnt have been said any better Sticks!

 

[J.McKenzie]

For a 2000 and 2001 I took a 10mm 12 point Combo wrench and Ground the open end off

Then use a 12" long pipe nipple as a cheater, works well on the 24 valve.

 

[SnoKing]

You think these are hard, try the starters on the Cummins B150's in my boat. About 2-3 hours to RandR the Port one, and 3-4 to RandR the Starboard one, which is up against the fuel tank. You have to remove the oid filter and turbo drain line to get the starter out over a cooling line that runs along that side of the engine. Note: Starters on on exhaust side of engine, not the intake like our trucks. Was doing this on a friends boat like mine and got my finger caught between the block and starter trying to guide the socket onto the bolt on the back side of the starter. Had to use the socket to push my finger free. Scarry!



Chris

 

[surfbeetle]

I have had my starter out in the past to install Larry B's contacts. I used an extension with a universal joint on the socket with a ratchet. The starter lasted another few years. Then before the starter went out, I had the clutch changed. When the starter finally died last year at 190,000 miles, I pulled it and decided to just get it rebuilt. When the clutch was done, I changed to the NV5600 flywheel with ring gear offset from that of the original flywheel. As a result, the mechanic who installed the clutch added the spacer between the block and the starter. When doing this he changed the bolts to allen head bolts. Of course I did not have the proper size allen wrench to get the starter out, I do now.

 

[MAYoung]

The factory service manual for the 1998. 5 Dodge calls for the starter bolts to be torqued to 32 ft. lbs. I have no idea what they call for in newer trucks but the effort to release a bolt with so little torque sounds odd. Any evidence of Loctite held bolts?



I had bolts work themselves free at at 32 ft. lbs. of torque so maybe the newer trucks have higher torque values.



M. Young

16 January 2011

 

[Sticks]

Locktite on steel bolts into aluminum threads... Bad JuJu

 

[Ncostello]

That filter gorilla works at Cummins in Columbus. Had an OEM original coolant filter on a Cummins ISC 8. 3... that ended up getting a 4' pry bar driven thru it... which practically ripped the filter around like a can opener before it budged. Good thing it was on a tilt cab truck with lots of room to work or I'd have been using a dremel tool to cut it off. I've seen welds break from less.

 

[fox]

I just did the starter R+R on my 02. This is the second time.

I did it in a little over an hour. Time wasted by running for wrenches and little things.



So here is my advice.

Line up the wrenches---10mm gear for three bolts, 15mm for the wire, and a 5/16 (or metric equilalent, 8mm?). My replacement used a 17mm on the battery.



Lift truck off of the ground securly enough to work freely under it.

Now unhook the batteries + side.



Go for it!

 

[guldam]

Over the past couple months I've been having starting issues... First was the Alternator no longer charging. Replaced that. Not a bad job at all.



Starter has been slow to turn over. And so I thought the batteries are giving up the ghost. Got a battery load tester and the batteries were just into the green. Borrowed another from my mechanic friend, and it tested the same. So I thought I'd just better go ahead and change them out since they were only just in the green.



Still slow turn over, though a little better.



Got a starter from Fleetsource (thanks for the recommendation) and today removed the old cranker, and put the new one on, and whoa Nelly it turns over in a big hurry!



Thanks for all suggestions on how to get the old starter off. I used the short ten mm wrench and a cheater wrench to break the two bottom bolts lose, loose, and the jack, piece of wood, and 10mm wrench to break the top one loose. Worked like a charm. Then I used my 10mm gear wrench to quickly remove all three bolts.



Removing the cable going to the starter was more of a pain though. You really need a super thin 17mm wrench to hold the stud nut, and then a 15mm socket to remove the outside nut. I ended up having to use my 1/2" drive electric drill to spin the nut off.



This was one of the least painful projects so far.



GulDam

 

[MRoberts]

Just replaced my starter last night. Did a little research here and in the manual before starting.



I had no trouble breaking the bolts free with a Gearwrench 10mm ratchet. In and out no problem.



I'm keeping my factory starter and ordering new contacts from Larry B so I have a spare on hand if needed.



Thanks TDR!