OK, it's official...

[HBarlow]

The Chevy diesel motor is not a piece of junk one or two of the people we go camping with have the chevy and their just as strong as ours. Until the owners start adding a bunch of HP that they more than likely dont need. For the most part our motors are strong ( I think the best ) but like the rest look at the guys that complain about the Cummins or Chevy most not ALL have taken a great feat of engineering and made trash out of it. If you need that kind of power then buy it so you dont have to modify something that its not but as always TJMO

That's what the Chevy owners tell you but if you could monitor the GM truck towing the same load up the same grade behind your Dodge you would learn the GM Isuzu V8 diesel will downshift two or three gears to rev the engine into the power band of 2500 to 3200 rpm when your Dodge-Cummins will pull the grade at around 2000 rpm.

Several years ago when I was transporting with my old '01 Ram HO/six speed which had 3. 54 gears and over 300k miles on the odometer I met a woman fellow transporter at a Flying J in LaSalle, IL. She was driving a new GM/Isuzu and we were pulling similar trailers. We were both going west across I-80 and she followed me. We kept in touch on the CB.

As we got out west into the mountains she would lag behind on every grade until about half way up the grade then she would slowly catch up. I called her and asked her what her tach was showing as I motored up the grades at between 1600 and 2000 rpm in sixth gear. What I learned from her tach was when her truck stayed in fifth (top)gear she lagged way behind. When her automatic transmission kicked down to third and spun the tach she easily caught up. V8 diesels are not the same engines as our Cummins. They do produce lots of hp and torque but only at higher rpms meaning higher fuel consumption and faster wear.

No thanks. No Furd or GM V8 diesels will be parked in my barn.

 

[HBarlow]

Because it costs $50k, is supposed to be the most "durable" truck on the market, they make way more than 20% on these trucks, and they shouldn't build a POS and pass it off on the public, that's why. No, they don't know your driving habits, but with all the tattle-tales in the computer, it wouldn't be hard for a tech to look at it and see if it's been driven like it was stolen, or if it's been driven responsibly. Yes, there are a few that take advantage of the warranty, but most do not. Most are responsible for themselves and a truck that costs way more than it should. The manufacturer is the one being irresponsible, trying to pass an inferior product off on the public, using an established name and reputation. It is not uncommon to see an old 1st gen and many earlier 2nd gens with over 1/4 million miles on them and never touched except for maintanance. It is uncommon to see a 3rd gen do that. Between fuel lift pumps, computer ghosts, piston rings, DMFs, wheel bearings, and injector failures, very few trucks in the 3rd gen, as a percentage, make the cut. None of mine have. You can count that as emission requirements, technology advances, failure under higher power, or whatever the heck you want, but I count that as poor engineering. And people still keep buying them. The people that actually need them, can't make a living without them, and the people that keep driving the price up, don't care. And the people that keep bailing them out of a deserved bloody nose deserve to be whipped with a peppered cane pole. And the people that voted them in deserve what they get.

"The floggings will continue until morale improves... " or, "Don't worry, we'll print more!" :{

Generally speaking, I disagree with you. Mechanical problems depend a lot on maintenance style and duty cycle. I put an easy 230k miles on an '06 with nothing more than one FCA requiring replacement on the engine and a set of sealed front hubs. Lots of owners have exceeded 500k miles.

I also put 325k on an '01 and have put a total of about 650k miles on three of them without ever replacing an injector or internal engine part.

There are currently at least two ISB6. 7s among our membership currently exceeding 300k miles, one exceeding 350k miles.

Advances in performance, quietness, and meeting ridiculous EPA standards requires advanced technology which is more complex and more likely to fail.

I am very confident of and satisfied with Dodge's engineering and the reliability, durability of their products.

The ones I've owned have been very cheap to own and operate and I have never paid anywhere near $50k for one.

 

[rbattelle]

Yes, it's true, they all have their problems, but the problems all keep getting worse!! I'm about to become a classic truck rebuilder, I think!! I just keep rebuilding them(89-06), and they just keep on trucking!! It's cheaper than buying a new one!! Hell, I can buy a good used Freightliner for less then a new truck!!!

There's a lot of wisdom in this little clip here. Particularly the part about the Freightliner.

As time goes on, I see fewer and fewer logical arguments in favor of buying a new light duty truck for towing or hauling. In fact, I think the only arguments remaining at this point are: 1) comfort, and 2) passenger capacity.

(If you're like me and have no friends and enjoy suffering, those two arguments are meaningless! )

-Ryan

 

[HBarlow]

I've been interested in trucks as long as I can remember and as a long time RVer, have often given fairly serious thought to buying a FL or IH MDT.

All it takes is one brief conversation with my good friend Bill Stockard who was a big and medium truck salesman and sales manager for many years to cause me to forget my boyish ideas about buying a big truck. One of Bill's most descriptive statements about big trucks is that a big truck is like having a hole in the ground to throw money in.

If I was a full time RVer, which I am not and am never going to be, I would probably own an IH MDT simply because large fifth wheels are too heavy to be safely towed with a dually. But I know the purchase price, routine maintenance and repair costs, licensing and insuring costs are all much too expensive for me to justify owning one.

I'll just continue to admire them from a distance.

 

[rbattelle]

a big truck is like having a hole in the ground to throw money in.

Fair enough, I didn't think of it this way. I suppose the lower initial cost of the truck could easily be offset by higher maintenance costs over time.



Still seems tempting for short distance hauling.



-Ryan

 

[RVTRKN]

Thats why I don't like class A motor homes, there an RV on a medium duty chassi, and the axle maintenance alone, cost lots of money. And then the cost, 250K, before depreciation, and thats the cheaper versions.

 

[HHhuntitall]

I've been interested in trucks as long as I can remember and as a long time RVer, have often given fairly serious thought to buying a FL or IH MDT.



All it takes is one brief conversation with my good friend Bill Stockard who was a big and medium truck salesman and sales manager for many years to cause me to forget my boyish ideas about buying a big truck. One of Bill's most descriptive statements about big trucks is that a big truck is like having a hole in the ground to throw money in.



If I was a full time RVer, which I am not and am never going to be, I would probably own an IH MDT simply because large fifth wheels are too heavy to be safely towed with a dually. But I know the purchase price, routine maintenance and repair costs, licensing and insuring costs are all much too expensive for me to justify owning one.



I'll just continue to admire them from a distance.

See, now I don't get that. I've got several trucks, Class 8, and a CDL, and the insurance on them is not much higher than my '03 3500. I pay @ $220 a year for Liability only on my '03, and not quite double that for my '87 Freightliner w/ uninsured/underinsured, @ $360 for my '90 KW, and @ $340 for my '85, which only has a grain bed on it, no fifth wheel. My old FL, with the old 855 Big Cam, gets @ 4-5mpg most of the time, but it's an old 9 speed with no overdrive. My KW, with a 3406 Cat gets around 7, but it's loaded most of the time, and my '85 usually does around 9. I had a single axle FL with an 8. 3 Cummins, 10spd, and 3. 54 gears, and it would do 15 with a light cattle trailer empty, and around 9-10 loaded. With my groundload straight deck, it would do around 12 empty, and 8-9 loaded. Maintanance was around the same as my Dodge, with oil changes and oil filters and such. It cost a little more in product, but the oil change intervals were @ 10k, so it actually cost less per mile. The tires would run close to 100k, I had plenty of brakes, which would run 75-150k, and I had air ride. That truck was very low maintanance for as long as I had it. Now, granted, I pulled several trailers a lot with it, and it didn't sit very much. But as little as it cost to run, I don't see how it's a money pit. They'll last a heck of a lot longer than these light duty trucks, and cost you a lot less in the long run. I wouldn't want to run to the mall in it, but that's what my dualled 4 door 4x4 is for, right? :-laf



The driver's license may be the worst part. But if you could keep the GVW registration under 26k, it can be driven with a regular class C DL in Tx, and get by with only a state inspection. Techinically, our Dodges are supposed to have DOT inspection, CDL drivers, and commercial insurance when coupled with a trailer that makes the Combined GCW greater than 26k, I'd rather have the air brakes!!

 

[KeithTaylor]

Don't mean to hijack the conversation, but just have a quick question - when did Dodge start using the dual mass flywheel setup?

Keith

 

[BHiggins]

Actually Keith, you're not the one that hijacked it. At least your question is related to my original topic... I believe they started using them in 2006, but if anyone knows for sure feel free to correct me.

 

[seafish]

Actually Keith, you're not the one that hijacked it. At least your question is related to my original topic... I believe they started using them in 2006, but if anyone knows for sure feel free to correct me.

You're almost right... late 2005 models were when the G56 transmission was introduced. The DMF set-up goes with the G56 transmission to help reduce NVH, probably due to the aluminum casings' having less ability to dampen NVH compared to the HEAVY iron of the NV5600 used jsut before the G56 came out. In other words,



NV5600 = regular old flywheel



G56 = Dual-mass flywheel

 

[BIGNASTY]

Dont know

Im not going to disagree with you Harvey I have no experience in the GM and the only v8 diesel I have ever driven was a V8 92. The mechanic asked if I had ever driven one I told him no he open the door put my hand in the door jam and tried to slam the door on my hand. (it didnt happen) but he said if it had would you be mad I said Hell ya he told me thats how you drive, drive like your ****** and the Detroit 92 will love it. V8's are a different breed of diesel high RPM is what they like I guess

 

[BIGNASTY]

Automatic transmissions have come a long way U S Express used them exclusively (because if you dont know how to shift a standard you can really F things up) We had a few trucks hauling fuel around town with auto's they didnt hold up well to the stop and go we did in town. But it sure was nice driving around eating your Burger with one hand and driving with the other.

 

[Wingate]

I completely agree that these trucks getting worse and worse on build quality. . I cannot believe that my friggin blend door has broken once again... Yes, its been two years since it broke... almost 8K miles since it was replaced... THis kinda crap is completely unacceptable for what we ALL paid to purchase thse trucks. I've got an old beat up mid 70's farm truck that all the HVAC controls STILL work on... why doesnt my 06 Dodge???

This ISN'T new technology or some great new invention, its moving a knob and gettting the right temperature of air blowing out of the desired vents? No emissions hurdles, no new safety regulations, its turning a fan... . in 5+ years they took a working design, screwed it up, and STILL can't/won't fix it???

Funny thing is, they STILL haven't fixed it on the 4th gen trucks. .

I do believe that Cummins has managed the emissions hurdles well with the 6. 7L engines, but the Dodge part has been horrible.

Blend doors, interior lights, TIPMs, steering problems,(really? has basic suspension design suddenly changed to some non-linear algorithym? or are they just trying to figure out how to make something cheap????) sub-standard transmissions,(in 2006 we couldn't get more than 4 gears and a torque convertor that can hold up to the engine its bolted to??? Or a valve body that more indecisive than a woman in a jewelry store. )

U-joints that don't last 30K miles, disposable front hubs?? REALLY???

 

[BHiggins]

@Wingate... Well said.

 

[AClayton]

I completely agree that these trucks getting worse and worse on build quality. . I cannot believe that my friggin blend door has broken once again... Yes, its been two years since it broke... almost 8K miles since it was replaced... THis kinda crap is completely unacceptable for what we ALL paid to purchase thse trucks. I've got an old beat up mid 70's farm truck that all the HVAC controls STILL work on... why doesnt my 06 Dodge???

This ISN'T new technology or some great new invention, its moving a knob and gettting the right temperature of air blowing out of the desired vents? No emissions hurdles, no new safety regulations, its turning a fan... . in 5+ years they took a working design, screwed it up, and STILL can't/won't fix it???

Funny thing is, they STILL haven't fixed it on the 4th gen trucks. .

I do believe that Cummins has managed the emissions hurdles well with the 6. 7L engines, but the Dodge part has been horrible.

Blend doors, interior lights, TIPMs, steering problems,(really? has basic suspension design suddenly changed to some non-linear algorithym? or are they just trying to figure out how to make something cheap????) sub-standard transmissions,(in 2006 we couldn't get more than 4 gears and a torque convertor that can hold up to the engine its bolted to??? Or a valve body that more indecisive than a woman in a jewelry store. )

U-joints that don't last 30K miles, disposable front hubs?? REALLY???

Wingate,



Well first... ... ... I agree with you! But you have lost all credibility with me. :-laf When I ranted about all the problems I've had with my 2nd gen a couple of mos. ago, you and ole' HB jumped my ***** hard and told me Dodge was the best and I was hard on my truck and some people could tear up an anvil



Just to be clear... . once again, and apparently you agree this time... ... . Dodge part of our trucks basically suck but the Cummins more than makes up for any inconvience we all have!





Alan

 

[HBarlow]

My three Dodges must have been built by different guys named Juan and Pedro on different days of the week or using components from different suppliers.

In exactly 648,000 miles of service with three of them I have never experienced the failed parts that many of you report.

My previous truck, before I started buying Dodges, was a '94 Furd F250HD with 460 ci big block gas engine. It wasn't a bad truck for 155k miles either but I couldn't keep exhaust manifold gaskets or exhaust manifolds on it and the E40D four speed automatic failed at 100k miles. It got lousy gas mileage and required frequent spark plug and plug wire changes. Although Furd claimed 405 ft. lbs. of torque at 2400 rpm it probably had about 50% of the trailer towing power my Cummins powered Rams have had. Hills that I climbed easily in sixth gear with my '01 Dodge towing the same trailer required the Furd to be down in 2nd gear revving hard.

From 2002 through about 2008 Furd sold loyal and dumb Furd owners the junk trucks with temporary service Sick. Ohh or Sick. For diesel engines that if used for heavy towing would barely last 100k miles with warranty repairs. Most had catastrophic failures at just over 100k miles.

When I was transporting I talked to several different GM owners with 300k mile GM trucks. I rode in one of them with a fellow transporter to lunch one day in Fontana, CA. I literally wasn't sure we were going to make it to a local restuarant before the wheels fell off. It wandered, wobbled, bounced, shook, rattled, and when he applied the brakes I thought the entire front end and both front wheels would come off. My own '01 Ram had around 310k miles on it at the time and was in great shape. (It still is today with 353k).

Another GM owner was fueling across the pumps from me one day when my '06 was brand new. He asked about my experience with Dodge Rams. He said he was going to buy a new Ram when he got home. He told me his GM dually with 300k miles was junk, everything on it was failing.

Our Dodge Rams are not perfect, we can agree. But when some of you claim they are junk I will strongly disagree with you.

 

[AClayton]

My three Dodges must have been built by different guys named Juan and Pedro on different days of the week or using components from different suppliers.



In exactly 648,000 miles of service with three of them I have never experienced the failed parts that many of you report.



My previous truck, before I started buying Dodges, was a '94 Furd F250HD with 460 ci big block gas engine. It wasn't a bad truck for 155k miles either but I couldn't keep exhaust manifold gaskets or exhaust manifolds on it and the E40D four speed automatic failed at 100k miles. Although Furd claimed 405 ft. lbs. of torque at 2400 rpm it probably had about 50% of the trailer towing power my Cummins powered Rams have had.

Way too funny! I just went out and looked..... my driver side window has a sticker that says ... ... made in St. Louis! :-laf

 

[HBarlow]

Way too funny! I just went out and looked..... my driver side window has a sticker that says ... ... made in St. Louis! :-laf

I'm chuckling with you. I guess I won't launch into a speech here in the RV forum of my opinion about labor unions and the products they build. All three of my Dodge Rams have been hecho in Mexico.

 

[Blu-meanie]

My first Dodge was an '01, made in St Louis. My '05 in Mexico. I've had much less trouble with the foreign made than with the US made Dodge, both of which have imported parts. One thing I noticed is there was much more paint on my Mexican truck, thanks to the #$%&*** EPA. The doors and hood actually fit too. My St Louis truck spent at least a month in the shop the first two years I owned it.

I do miss the cell phone stopping rattle and the intense blue color though.

 

[Wingate]

Wingate,



Well first... ... ... I agree with you! But you have lost all credibility with me. :-laf When I ranted about all the problems I've had with my 2nd gen a couple of mos. ago, you and ole' HB jumped my ***** hard and told me Dodge was the best and I was hard on my truck and some people could tear up an anvil



Just to be clear... . once again, and apparently you agree this time... ... . Dodge part of our trucks basically suck but the Cummins more than makes up for any inconvience we all have!





Alan

Please refresh my memory on this... Not saying I didn't just saying I really don't remember...

Can you post a link back to this?