Dodge gets slammed in Diesel Power Mag!

[RustyJC]

A heavy kingpin load on a Class II (3/4 ton) truck causing the rear end to sag is a good example of a rig that might be noticed whereas if it had airbags and was level it might not.

Or perhaps the rig I saw headed west on I-10 just west of Houston between Brookshire and Sealy. A Ford Ranger (I kid you not) pulling a 26' or so 5th wheel with the rear of the truck on the bump stops, blue smoke pouring out from the bottom of the truck and struggling to make about 45 MPH in the slowpoke lane. :-laf



Rusty

 

[RSamples]

We all know we have the best trucks. All Cummins would have to do is go to head studs and a better head gasket to start with, then what ever they did would bring them to the top of the heap in nothing flat! IL6 Cummins is the best basic motor there is in pickups period... ... .....

 

[HBarlow]

Or perhaps the rig I saw headed west on I-10 just west of Houston between Brookshire and Sealy. A Ford Ranger (I kid you not) pulling a 26' or so 5th wheel with the rear of the truck on the bump stops, blue smoke pouring out from the bottom of the truck and struggling to make about 45 MPH in the slowpoke lane. :-laf

Rusty

I've seen similar. As you probably know, I'm not a guy who wants government to solve every real or imagined problem. I hate silly nuisance laws passed by empty suits in state legislatures to correct non-existent problems, but the rig you described above should probably be removed from the highways for the safety of the owner, passengers, and other motorists. The guy in the Ranger is probably grossly overloaded on his rear axle and should be ticketed and forced to park that rig.

 

[craiggo]

Actually most states would not consider what the GVW or GCVW is as long as you pay the license for the total weight. I'm running 'T' plates in Oregon for 26,000 pounds for Personal use trailers being over 8k rated (non RV). The state could care less about the manufacturing ratings.



I would love TDR to grab a 2011 Dodge and redo the test with the same type of trailer with the same weight on it. As long as someone is driving with a CDL (remember the TDR Magazine is Commercial) and the truck is tagged or licensed for the weight should be no reason not to do it.

I don't think we have that option in Calif but I could be wrong (I know our laws are goofy). But you bring up a good point...



My wife and I were looking at new trailers this weekend and the 5th we liked was a max weight of 14k. I wonder what would happen if I towed it with my CTD (which, with the 3. 73 is maxed out at like 13,700) would I have a problem? Would I cause any issues? All of my towing has been under 10k and I'm sure I'd have zero issue.

 

[HBarlow]

I don't think we have that option in Calif but I could be wrong (I know our laws are goofy). But you bring up a good point...

My wife and I were looking at new trailers this weekend and the 5th we liked was a max weight of 14k. I wonder what would happen if I towed it with my CTD (which, with the 3. 73 is maxed out at like 13,700) would I have a problem? Would I cause any issues? All of my towing has been under 10k and I'm sure I'd have zero issue.

No, you wouldn't have any problem at all. The 4. 10 gear set would give better performance and you would like it better for towing a 14k fiver but your truck would pull it fine. Thousands of guys with Dodge Rams with standard gear sets are pulling heavy trailers. Some of them are not TDR members and have no clue what their gearing is. All they know is when they press the go pedal their Dodge will pull the trailer.

My HitchHiker fifth wheel has a maximum weight (GVWR) of 14,100. My truck does have 4. 10 gears but yours will pull the same trailer.

 

[JHumphries]

Check these out.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Now THAT is some Redneck engineering right there! I needed a good laugh!
Kinda reminds of this pic:
#ad

 

[Powder Extreme]

The biggest reason Chevy had them do the test was to tell Ford to put up, or shut up.

Chevy had the highest horsepower / tq rating, so Ford reflashed their trucks to 400hp / 800tq. Previous tests showed the Chevy out pulling the Ford and the Dodge. Ford whined saying it was their old tune. Chevy said "okay, let's do it again" Ford WOULDN'T DO IT. So Chevy provided the money and had the independent testers go to random car lots and purchase vehicles off the lot. That way Ford couldn't claim Chevy sent a custom tuned truck to the competiton. Chevy paid for BOTH trucks.



Anyway, they hitched up a trailer that was near both vehicles' maximum GVWR, picked a long hill to climb, and did the test. Obviously Chevy completely beat Ford, it wasn't even close. The test was basically to prove that Ford is just blowing smoke claiming they have the most power when clearly the Chevy will pull better. Unfortunately the Dodge doesn't have a high enough capacity to be in a apples to apples comparison with that much weight. They have already done comparisons with lower weights which Chevy led as well. Interestingly enough, the Ford sights are all whining that the Chevy beat it because of the altitude. They are saying "run that test again at sea level!" ROFLMAO!! yeah, there's TONS of mountain passes at sea level guys!



The current Dodge just doesn't put out the horsepower in stock form to pull as hard as a current Chevy will. PERIOD. I've owned two Dodge 6. 7's and neither one would come close to pulling a hill like my Denali will, plain and simple. (and before you start saying the rear end ratio in my latest truck is causing global warming, let me point out my previous 6. 7 had a 3. 73 rear end just like my GMC does)



PLEASE! I am not trying to get into a p*ssing match about "oh ya, well my truck will do it 200,000 miles from now, will yours?" Personally, I don't care what my truck will do in 200k miles, I won't own it that long. I buy a new truck every few years whether I need it or not.



I know, I know. "The current Dodge is more than capable of doing all I ask of it, blah blah, will be here 100 yrs from now and still running, blah blah, etc. etc. " That's NOT my point. My point is that RIGHT NOW, a stock GM pickup will out run, out pull, and get better mileage than a stock Dodge will. And those are the facts that is causing Dodge to lose a ton of market share to GM.



I've always liked Dodge (I still own two) but I'm disappointed in their market strategy right now. Horsepower may not be the most important thing, but it IS what is selling trucks. Then you add in the Mileage factor and it really is a very valid argument.

The average person trades his truck in LONG before the magical Cummins will reach 2, 3, even 400,000 miles, so that really is a moot point.



Dodge needs to step up to the plate and throw out some horsepower with a good transmission behind it. We all know the Cummins can put out 500hp / 1000tq if they wanted to, Dodge NEEDS to want to in order to stay competitive.



Again, PLEASE, lets' not turn this into another p*ssing match.

 

[RonD]

Just a little reminder the high profit trucks that all Manufacturers push are half ton's, that is why Dodge and all of them do the new changes on them a year ahead of the HD trucks, so maybe Chrysler really doesn't care, when 2012 comes out that will be answered, no change tells me that is the case, hope I am wrong.

 

[RVTRKN]

Kinda off topic, I was in an Fed Ex maintenance garage working on a shop heater when I noticed the 5. 9 sitting on the shop floor and I asked the mechanic what he thought of the Cummins. He liked them and started to tell me about the engine when I interrupted him and said I was aware of the legend. When I explained to him I owned two of them he asked me what truck, when I told him the Dodge Ram he was astonished (don't know if he was pulling my leg) and his words were, WOW those trucks have no weight I bet they pull grades without any trouble. I explained that my GCVW at 22K pulls grades with no problems and he agreed that should be easy for the 5. 9.



I read that article and think they left the Cummins out for a reason. They should have tested the Dodge anyway and maybe it wouldn't have pulled as fast when starting up the grade, but I bet it would have held its own at the finish.

 

[HBarlow]

The biggest reason Chevy had them do the test was to tell Ford to put up, or shut up.
Chevy had the highest horsepower / tq rating, so Ford reflashed their trucks to 400hp / 800tq. Previous tests showed the Chevy out pulling the Ford and the Dodge. Ford whined saying it was their old tune. Chevy said "okay, let's do it again" Ford WOULDN'T DO IT. So Chevy provided the money and had the independent testers go to random car lots and purchase vehicles off the lot. That way Ford couldn't claim Chevy sent a custom tuned truck to the competiton. Chevy paid for BOTH trucks.

Anyway, they hitched up a trailer that was near both vehicles' maximum GVWR, picked a long hill to climb, and did the test. Obviously Chevy completely beat Ford, it wasn't even close. The test was basically to prove that Ford is just blowing smoke claiming they have the most power when clearly the Chevy will pull better. Unfortunately the Dodge doesn't have a high enough capacity to be in a apples to apples comparison with that much weight. They have already done comparisons with lower weights which Chevy led as well. Interestingly enough, the Ford sights are all whining that the Chevy beat it because of the altitude. They are saying "run that test again at sea level!" ROFLMAO!! yeah, there's TONS of mountain passes at sea level guys!

The current Dodge just doesn't put out the horsepower in stock form to pull as hard as a current Chevy will. PERIOD. I've owned two Dodge 6. 7's and neither one would come close to pulling a hill like my Denali will, plain and simple. (and before you start saying the rear end ratio in my latest truck is causing global warming, let me point out my previous 6. 7 had a 3. 73 rear end just like my GMC does)

PLEASE! I am not trying to get into a p*ssing match about "oh ya, well my truck will do it 200,000 miles from now, will yours?" Personally, I don't care what my truck will do in 200k miles, I won't own it that long. I buy a new truck every few years whether I need it or not.

I know, I know. "The current Dodge is more than capable of doing all I ask of it, blah blah, will be here 100 yrs from now and still running, blah blah, etc. etc. " That's NOT my point. My point is that RIGHT NOW, a stock GM pickup will out run, out pull, and get better mileage than a stock Dodge will. And those are the facts that is causing Dodge to lose a ton of market share to GM.

I've always liked Dodge (I still own two) but I'm disappointed in their market strategy right now. Horsepower may not be the most important thing, but it IS what is selling trucks. Then you add in the Mileage factor and it really is a very valid argument.
The average person trades his truck in LONG before the magical Cummins will reach 2, 3, even 400,000 miles, so that really is a moot point.

Dodge needs to step up to the plate and throw out some horsepower with a good transmission behind it. We all know the Cummins can put out 500hp / 1000tq if they wanted to, Dodge NEEDS to want to in order to stay competitive.

Again, PLEASE, lets' not turn this into another p*ssing match.

I guess you mean you feel free to post a page of your opinions and no other members should challenge you because that would be starting an argument or a urine slinging contest? Interesting perspective, I suppose, but not one I share.

You are entitled to your opinion and free to spend your money on whatever you choose but we don't have to accept your opinions or agree.

I for one do not.

Offers some proof of all your "insider information" and test results if you expect us to believe all that crap.

I wouldn't own a GM-Izuzu and have no interest in your wild claims.

 

[AClayton]

What I thought was interesting about the write-up was how the magazine 'covered-up' the fact of how much DEF the Chevy used to do the same work the Ford did. The Duramax uses a lot of fluid when pulling hard and the magazine masked that by claiming the Ford was sold to them without a full DEF tank... ... ... so they paid to fill it and then put that into the results of DEF useage.



Alan

 

[CUMMINZ]

I have only one opinion as to how my 6. 7L DC pulls and handles my 5er. When I am on a grade and in a hard pull if I can push the pedal down to the floor and my rig increases in speed I think I have plenty of power. PERIOD:-laf

 

[mwilson]

I have only one opinion as to how my 6. 7L DC pulls and handles my 5er. When I am on a grade and in a hard pull if I can push the pedal down to the floor and my rig increase in speed I think I have plenty of power. PERIOD:-laf

Amen to that Brother... ... ... ... ... ... ... That's what it is all about.

 

[MChrist]

Imagine going back 20 years. . and finding a proud, new owner of a brand new 1990 Dodge Ram with the new Cummins diesel, 3 speed automatic after their first trip up a mountain towing a heavy trailer. While the new owner is bragging to everybody around him at the fuel station about how great it was, you could tell him that, in the future, the new version of this truck has TWICE the horsepower, TWICE the torque, and TWICE THE GEARS and some people STILL won't think it's enough!!!

Once he tells you that you're crazy (and who would argue, after all, you just told him you're from the future... ) then you could also tell him that it's not called Dodge anymore. He may just shoot you on the spot!

 

[HBarlow]

I have only one opinion as to how my 6. 7L DC pulls and handles my 5er. When I am on a grade and in a hard pull if I can push the pedal down to the floor and my rig increases in speed I think I have plenty of power. PERIOD:-laf

Yep, I agree with you also. I'm completely satisfied with only 305 hp and 610 ft. lbs. of torque. You guys with pickups have 45 hp and 40 ft. lbs. of torque on me.

We might also add that if either of us or any other owner hangs a large heavy fifth wheel on his hitch and travels all year long, tens of thousands of miles, and holds his foot to the floor on every single grade he encounters, we know our Cummins Rams will be ready to do it again as soon as we get home and get the truck and trailer cleaned up.

No thanks to Furd and GM! I'm blind to any claimed advantages of the GMs and Furds, their claims are irrelevant to me.

 

[CTaylor]

Imagine going back 20 years. . and finding a proud, new owner of a brand new 1990 Dodge Ram with the new Cummins diesel, 3 speed automatic after their first trip up a mountain towing a heavy trailer. While the new owner is bragging to everybody around him at the fuel station about how great it was, you could tell him that, in the future, the new version of this truck has TWICE the horsepower, TWICE the torque, and TWICE THE GEARS and some people STILL won't think it's enough!!!

Once he tells you that you're crazy (and who would argue, after all, you just told him you're from the future... ) then you could also tell him that it's not called Dodge anymore. He may just shoot you on the spot!

Yep, it makes you wonder when or why did 500 or even 400 ft lbs of torque become not enough? Remember when that would pull more than what any one needed or should pull behind a pickup?

 

[craiggo]

We might also add that if either of us or any other owner hangs a large heavy fifth wheel on his hitch and travels all year long, tens of thousands of miles, and holds his foot to the floor on every single grade he encounters, we know our Cummins Rams will be ready to do it again as soon as we get home and get the truck and trailer cleaned up.

This is simply the most underrated aspect of owing the Dodge Ram period! When I was towing with my PSD 6. 0 I was constantly monitoring the gauges (I had to add) and waiting with anticipation for the Check Engine Light to come on. Usually it was something more serious than the CEL. I know, I know comparing my MY10 Ram to my 6. 0 is not fair but, the feelings still reside with me; actually more so with my wife who forbid another Ford diesel in our house. I'm so glad I got the CTD.

 

[Powder Extreme]

I guess you mean you feel free to post a page of your opinions and no other members should challenge you because that would be starting an argument or a urine slinging contest? Interesting perspective, I suppose, but not one I share.



You are entitled to your opinion and free to spend your money on whatever you choose but we don't have to accept your opinions or agree.



I for one do not.



Offers some proof of all your "insider information" and test results if you expect us to believe all that crap.



I wouldn't own a GM-Izuzu and have no interest in your wild claims.

LOL, Harv, I would have been truly disappointed if you hadn't come back with some back handed comment.



I'm going to be in Texas next month picking up a gooseneck trailer, why don't you hitch up to the largest trailer you have, I'll match the weight, we both roll across the scales to verify it, then we can go do an apples to apples comparison test of our own. Totally unbiased, definitely not rigged, and the omnipotent Harvey can regulate it. When we're done, the loser can buy the beer, sound good?



PS... Pick up some Bud on the way, it'll save you a trip to buy it later. :-laf

 

[Powder Extreme]

What I thought was interesting about the write-up was how the magazine 'covered-up' the fact of how much DEF the Chevy used to do the same work the Ford did. The Duramax uses a lot of fluid when pulling hard and the magazine masked that by claiming the Ford was sold to them without a full DEF tank... ... ... so they paid to fill it and then put that into the results of DEF useage.

Alan

The GM does NOT use an excessive amount of DEF. I have 12. 5k on mine, over 11k of it has been hitched up to to a minimum of 7k, most of the time I'm pulling 20,000lbs. I use 5 gallons of DEF every 6,000 miles. Slightly less than the projected 5 gallons / 5,000 miles GM states. 5 gallons of Def costs me $25, that equates out to $0. 00416 per mile. If you put that in perspective the extra fuel burned in the Dodge vs. the GM due to worse fuel economy comes out like this:
Dodge 6,000 miles @ 8mpg = 750 gallons of diesel x $3. 33 per gallon = a total fuel cost of $2,497. 50
GMC 6,000 miles @9. 5mpg = 631 gallons of fuel x $2101. 25 Then let's add on the exorbitant cost of that EVIL DEF @ $25... . $2126. 25. Hmm, doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the cost of DEF is MINUSCULE when looking at the operating cost of the truck. Add in the fact that my oil is WAY cleaner after that 6,000 miles thanks to drastically reduced EGR resulting in less soot, etc. and the DEF really is a win / win situation.

Dodge is ALREADY using DEF in the C & C trucks, why isn't anybody putting them down for that they way they do Ford and GM?

A year or two from now when the RAM has DEF in all of their diesels and everybody is saying how great it is, it will be comical to look back at the old posts.

*Edit The mileage figures I used were based on the fuel mileage my Dodge averaged after several thousand miles pulling 20k @ 55 mph. The GMC figures were based on pulling 20k @ 65mph for several thousand miles. I'm sure the GMC would be even better if I slowed down to 55mph.