Flying J to Bio Blend

[DennyDay]

When the Flying J in Lubbock began selling that crap a year or so ago I immediately quit purchasing fuel there. When I looked around I found that SAM's Club diesel was about $0. 12 to $0. 15 per gallon cheaper than FJ anyway. Haven't bought anymore FJ fuel since.

Harvey - - - Its been my experience with both Sams and Wally World that the Centane rate is usually rather low - - I expereince a noticable mileage drop with both, but when I purchasefrom Shell or FJ, I usually pick up a mile to a mile and a half. If it is . 12 to . 15 cheaper, I don't worry about it. Had to buy Murphy (Wallyworld) last week in Demopolis, AL at $3. 95/gallon, - - I should have waited 'til I get to Jaackson, MS Saturday FJ is $3. 88/gal - less . 03/gal.

 

[DennyDay]

I'm thinking about opening a special bank account



I'll be rich in no time.

Harvey - -



? ? ? ? Did I miss something here that others did not?

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey,
You keep stating that my information comes from either internet BS or a aftermarket company. Simply not true, in fact I am not a proponent of aftermaket additives period. I did not state that the sulfur in fuel provided the lubricity. What I said was the process to remove sulfur degrades the lubricity of the fuel. You will not see in your owners manual that you need to use any aftermarket additives. The suppliers of diesel fuels do have to meet minimum U. S. standards. The problem is that the gov. standard is for much less lubricity rating than the Engine Manufacturers Association recommends. This thread is about low percentage Bio diesel. 2% Bio provides better lubricity fuel than any other fuel additive. The studies that proved that are two or three years old and new products may have been developed since. 2% Bio meets the Engine Manufacturers Association wear scar specs.

Yeah, I suppose you are correct. I lump bio-diesel fuel, fuel additives, and oil additives into the same group. All of them, to me, are adding a foreign matter to the fundamental and fundamentally completely adequate diesel fuel and diesel motor oil.

I guess I lost my thought mid-sentence in my last post above. I should have included "or use bio-diesel to improve lubricity in the sentence where I said something to the effect that the mfr. does not advise me to add fuel additives.

In fact, our owners manual states the Cummins can use up to 5% bio (read vote buying in farm states). The manual does not say the owner must use 5% bio diesel in order to derive any benefits or to reach the full service life potential of your engine.

Lets be honest here. Diesel engines burn diesel fuel. Converting a valuable food commodity, corn, to diesel fuel is nothing more than a way for farm state legislators to buy the vote of farmers.

A considerable amount of corn is converted to fuel increasing the price of corn to consumers, leaving poor nations where corn is the staple of their diet with reduced and perhaps short supplies of life sustaining food, bio diesel consumes a considerable quantity of other fuel and electricity to produce, provides less energy than diesel during the combustion cycle in a diesel engine, required all sorts of mandated changes to diesel engines to allow burning it in an engine, causes problems in engines when used in larger ratios, etc. etc.

Biodiesel is a typical government solution to a problem that does not exist.

Why in the world would anyone want to burn it in their truck?

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey - - - Its been my experience with both Sams and Wally World that the Centane rate is usually rather low - - I expereince a noticable mileage drop with both, but when I purchasefrom Shell or FJ, I usually pick up a mile to a mile and a half. If it is . 12 to . 15 cheaper, I don't worry about it. Had to buy Murphy (Wallyworld) last week in Demopolis, AL at $3. 95/gallon, - - I should have waited 'til I get to Jaackson, MS Saturday FJ is $3. 88/gal - less . 03/gal.

I've never noticed any difference whatsoever but I have never calculated the fuel mileage on my truck. Whatever it is is what it is. Can't say the mileage is the same between sources but doubt any significant difference.

 

[07 ThunderRoad]

Here you go. http://www.aftermarketsuppliers.org.../Heavy-Duty-Consumers/TSBs-2/English/07-2.pdf

http://www.aftermarketsuppliers.org.../Heavy-Duty-Consumers/TSBs-2/English/06-1.pdf

http://www.aftermarketsuppliers.org.../Heavy-Duty-Consumers/TSBs-2/English/07-1.pdf

 

[AWeiman]

they dont make biodiesel from corn. only ethanol. alcohol comes from corn. oil from soybeans. this is a quote from the national biodiesel boards website:



Produced from a variety of renewable resources, such as plant oils, fats, recycled grease, and even algae, biodiesel is the most diverse fuel on the planet. And soybean-based biodiesel actually has a positive impact on the world’s food supply. Processing biodiesel from soybeans uses only the oil portion of the soybean, leaving all of the protein available to nourish livestock and humans. By creating a new market for soybean oil, we increase the availability of protein-rich meal for human and livestock consumption. The increased meal supply results in a more cost-effective food and feed source.

here is the link:biofuel. http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/Myths_and_Facts.pdf

 

[tempforce]

actually i get biodiesel made from restaurant waste fry oil.

 

[HBarlow]

they dont make biodiesel from corn. only ethanol. alcohol comes from corn. oil from soybeans. this is a quote from the national biodiesel boards website:

Produced from a variety of renewable resources, such as plant oils, fats, recycled grease, and even algae, biodiesel is the most diverse fuel on the planet. And soybean-based biodiesel actually has a positive impact on the world’s food supply. Processing biodiesel from soybeans uses only the oil portion of the soybean, leaving all of the protein available to nourish livestock and humans. By creating a new market for soybean oil, we increase the availability of protein-rich meal for human and livestock consumption. The increased meal supply results in a more cost-effective food and feed source.
here is the link:biofuel. http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/Myths_and_Facts.pdf

Okay, it appears I was completely wrong about it being corn based. But soybeans aren't just produced for bio diesel. I don't know if soybeans are used for human consumption but soybeans are primarily a food product even if only for livestock.

And even if it is not primarily made from corn there is still the huge cost of processing and refining a food product to make it suitable for adding to diesel fuel.

I"m not willing to accept that all bio diesel comes from waste products like restaurant grease. The quantity required is too large.

My thinking is diesel fuel is refined from petroleum to provide motor fuel and home heating oil. It provides greater energy for those applications than bio diesel. That's what I want to burn in my truck engine and until slimy vote buying politicians forced bio diesel on us that is what I could buy.

 

[tempforce]

if things in washington continue, we won't have any fuel to buy, whatever the source. .

 

[F-15I Ra'am]

The real reason for the high prices: Is There a Financial Scam Behind the Rise in Oil and Food Prices?

 

[MAleshire]

The newer Cummins diesels are designed to run on low sulphur diesel. The older ones, 2nd generation, are dependent on the lubricating qualities that were present before the production of the current low sulphur diesel. That lubrication was needed for the lift pump and the injection pump. Testing of various additives, including 2-cycle oil and bio-diesel were done to determine whether the claims made by the manufactures were true. The results of that testing can be found in the TDR archives. Bottom line is that few of the claims are true. There were a few that did as claimed. The testing showed that bio-diesel at about a 3-5% blend provides the best lubricity for the 2nd gen. engines when blended with the current low sulphur diesel. The solvent properties of bio-diesel are greater than petrolem based diesel, and at a higher concentration blend there is a concern about dissolving rubber seals and fuel lines. I don't know if this is being addressed by Dodge on the newer trucks, but on my truck I've changed the lines, and will change seals as necessary.



Skip

 

[AABEN]

Harvey, I don't know where you can look to verify what I posted. I only posted a very small amout of information on the subject taken from a internal corporate document that I do not have the authority to post. My post is not just my opinion. Low Sulfur fuel contained less than 500 ppm sulfur. Ultra Low Sulfur contains less than 15 ppm. The refining process for ULSD has stripped away much of the lubricity of the base fuel product. Also it would be a good bet that the fuel you purchase at Walmart has lubricity additives blended into it.

ALSO the motor oil was changed at the same time!!This was to meet the fed standard. I use 1 OZ per gal of Wal-mart super tech TC-W3. You can go to this site www.mopar1973man's.com for more INF.

 

[HBarlow]

The real reason for the high prices: Is There a Financial Scam Behind the Rise in Oil and Food Prices?

If you believe crap like that from the propaganda media I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

 

[guldam]

And for the rest of the story see:



Exxon and Shell Profits Up, BP Down; Oil Companies Have High Expectation This Earnings Season - ABC News



Exxon Mobil profits up 69%!



Free Market mumbo jumbo that the "informed" but gullible and rather dense <s>old man</s> Popeye Barlow spouts is BS. There is no free market, never has been, never will be. It is a Market of Corruption plain and simple.



GulDam

If you believe crap like that from the propaganda media I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

 

[Grey Wolf]

How about this representatives speech in 2008.....



YouTube - Rep Don Young Urges Producing American Energy & Opening ANWR

 

[AWeiman]

Okay, it appears I was completely wrong about it being corn based. But soybeans aren't just produced for bio diesel. I don't know if soybeans are used for human consumption but soybeans are primarily a food product even if only for livestock.



And even if it is not primarily made from corn there is still the huge cost of processing and refining a food product to make it suitable for adding to diesel fuel.



I"m not willing to accept that all bio diesel comes from waste products like restaurant grease. The quantity required is too large.



My thinking is diesel fuel is refined from petroleum to provide motor fuel and home heating oil. It provides greater energy for those applications than bio diesel. That's what I want to burn in my truck engine and until slimy vote buying politicians forced bio diesel on us that is what I could buy.

not going to argue that good ol no. 2 diesel provides more energy than biodiesel. it actually may not be that expense to produce biofuel from soybeans as compared to producing ethanol. part of the reason ethanol and biodiesel got started years ago was to create another market for corn and beans when prices where in the crapper. the other advantage was supposed to be that the byproducts of the production of these two fuels would be used as cheap livestock feed. well those cheap byproducts didnt stay cheap very long as you can imagine. if the whole biofuel/ethanol industry was feasible i would be a big supporter of home grown fuel, i just dont think it is working out the way it was figured to. there is a big debate going now as to whether or not this is the cause of higher ag commodity prices, i am not certain, we have been producing ethanol/ biodiesel for quite a few years , so why didnt we see this spike in prices till now?

 

[tempforce]

the last time corn prices went through the roof.
subsidiaries of oil companies were buying huge amounts of corn futures, driving up the prices. after some distilleries went under the prices returned to normal.
guess who bought the distilleries... . yep oil companies... .

 

[NavyDood]

All this back and forth talk is great. Gives me something to chuckle about when I add Bio to my truck.

 

[mwilson]

I have been following this thread as I get time (My offer to join forces with Harvey aside. . :-laf) and do have a serious question and/or assumption.



My son Seth and I are taking the '06 to Columbus for the get together and plant tour, also considering the Detroit factory tour side trip that may be happening as well.



I am sure that at some point I will wind up pumping Bio-Diesel in the tank at a Flying J or similar fuel vendor, will be trying to fuel at truck stops as much as possible.



I see that it has solvent properties and can dislodge some crud running the first tankful through the truck.



I am going to assume that our use of blended winter mix fuel up here in the sticks that is mixed with Kerosene in the cold weather (which has solvent properties as well) will keep me from having trouble with my plumbing which should be clean as a whistle as it is.



The truck's plumbing I mean, I think mine are a little clogged. . :-laf



I always carry one spare fuel filter, may toss a second one in the spare parts box as well just to be safe.



Let me know if the above assumption is correct.



Also, the cold weather properties of the Bio kind of indicate that we will never have it up here without some improvement.



Thanks,

Mike.

 

[tempforce]

yes, carry extra fuel filters and bread bags.
the first few tanks of bio will clean the system. the higher the bio% the quicker the junk gets cleaned out.
the bread bags... . are to keep your hands from getting soaked while changing the filter.
i use them when i change the oil filter as well.
after getting the filter loose, i slip the bag up-- enclosing the filter. finish unscrewing the filter. slip the bag up over the rest of the filter. the fuel/oil won't dissolve bread bags yet.
the new two piece filters are another story, you still need to get your hands on the filter, to remove it from the case. i use disposable gloves for that.
keeps the fuel smell off the hands.
for some reason most women don't like the smell of diesel.....