Smarty Jr torque and timing settings

[GTOWag]

While trying out my Smarty Jr. after updating the version and data files, I found that the black smoke problem still exists about the same as before. I am assuming there must be something else causing the black smoke.



I have never experimented much with the Torque and Timing settings, but I found if I set the torque setting to stock it doesn't smoke nearly as much.



Could anyone clarify something for me? The manual that came with the Smarty Jr. concerning torque and timing settings is confusing and I thought someone might be able to list the settings in order from less to maximum.





Quoting the Torque settings from the manual : “ The torque settings can be programed 1-Stock, 2 Mild, 3 Soft (less than #2), 4-light ( less than #3)”



This sounds like if listed in order from least amount of torque to maximum torque would be: 1,4,3,2.





Quoting the Timing settings from the manual: “ The timing selection can be programed 1 - Stock, 2 - Smarty Standard, 3 – Mild (less than # 2), or 4 – Advanced (more than #2)”



This sounds like if listed in order from least amount of timing to the maximum timing would be: 1,3,2,4.



I guess Italians have a weird way of expressing themselves or I just have a hard time understanding them?? Do I have it right or wrong??





How much would altitude effect smoke? Altitude here in Albuquerque is about 5,500 Ft.



Possibly my injectors are getting a little worn with 135,000 miles on them, causing too much fuel to be injected resulting in smoke?



I appreciate any input regarding these questions.

 

[MChrist]

It's confusing for sure. Remember, though, that "torque" is actually "torque management" which is in respect to how quickly the torque is allowed to get to the tires via programming. Factory controls the power (fuel) to be applied very gradually so the motor doesn't tear up the transmission. That's why Marco says not to use the aggressive tune on a stock trans.
I'm still not 100% sure what the settings mean. . "stock vs. Default" etc...

 

[AH64ID]

You are reading the numbers correctly.

Altitude has a lot to do with smoke, at 5,500 feet one cubic foot of air only contains 84. 6% of the oxygen as at sea level, add temperature to that and it makes smoke.

I have found the lowest smoke version to be the latest 5. 13 v20, with TM2 and TQ2 (defaults). From my days doing beta testing with Marco and the MADS crew I found that torque had very little to do with smoke, but timing was the big culprit. TM4 was actually the default timing before Revo Jr was released. TM3 will provide the least smoke, but at the cost of near stock power and EGT's.

 

[ttm]

You are reading the numbers correctly.



Altitude has a lot to do with smoke, at 5,500 feet one cubic foot of air only contains 84. 6% of the oxygen as at sea level, add temperature to that and it makes smoke.



I have found the lowest smoke version to be the latest 5. 13 v20, with TM2 and TQ2 (defaults). From my days doing beta testing with Marco and the MADS crew I found that torque had very little to do with smoke, but timing was the big culprit. TM4 was actually the default timing before Revo Jr was released. TM3 will provide the least smoke, but at the cost of near stock power and EGT's.

If ya can help here ,



can I ask what this may do to mpg? from my drive ability background on gassers it would only make sense that less smoke would mean less unburnt fuel, which should help mpg even if slightly, I'm still trying to decide if the smarty or edge would make any difference in mpg, I tried the trinity and lost mpg



thanks

 

[gerry]

smarty jr sttings

I just had a smarty jr put on my 2004. 5 3500. A local shop specialising in Dodge Cummins set it on 2 and 2 with I guess the torque management set at 70%. I was told this would be what I required for towing my 8k toy hauler and getting reasonably good milage and not being too hard on my 48re. It is rather confusing to me also compared to my old 2001 that had a Edge with Attitude that was very straight forward to program IMO. Do any of you out there with my setup have an opinion on the way mine's setup?

 

[TKoontz]

i have had my smarty for a year now and have towed my 10,000 lv 5er in northern nevada and found for me and my truck using stock setting gave the best milage. using 2 cost me 3mpg and while the extra power was good it was not realy needed. in town the smarty has help quite a bit.

when you change setting check the tire size, on mine it changes it to 33 in and i run standart time for the 04 and they are only30 in so you will show a 5mph slower differenc on the spedomoter

04 4x4 smarty jr 4 inch exhaust airbags piller pod and s&b air filter and horn

 

[GTOWag]

Smarty Jr Settings

Thank you for your replies. This must be a pretty dead issue since there haven’t been many responses to this thread, probably since it has been brought up before. I found some similar threads concerning Smarty Jr settings. There are so many people that claim they have found the best settings for fuel mileage and or power and they are all different from one another. One thread said you have to experiment until you find the setting that works best for your truck combination and its intended use. I think that is probably true once you figure out what the settings do and how they can affect engine performance. The manual leaves a lot to be desired in this area, but the TDR threads have been a great help.

 

[EWingertsahn]

well if you want to take care of the smoke you need to increase you air to balance out with the fueling. i came across a module that controls the waist gate. instead of building around 32 psi it will allow you to build between 40-48 psi. If any one has more information about this then please inform us of direct us. i will be doing more research myself.

 

[EWingertsahn]

Again please someone correct me if im wrong but with TM set to 4 that advances your fuel timing. Which means you start fueling as if you had more foot in the pedal at lower RPM.

This will create black unburned fuel smoke because the truck is technically running rich until your turbo spools. Once your turbo spools the level of smoke should taper off.

If you don't want any smoke then you need to get a turbo that spools faster in your RPM cycle. Black smoke is ok at early RPM W/ a SMARTY jr. Other trucks with heavy fueling mods to be able to handle the fuel levels pour smoke down the track.

i hope this helps you.

 

[BGlidewell]

torq = smoke

 

[AH64ID]

If ya can help here ,



can I ask what this may do to mpg? from my drive ability background on gassers it would only make sense that less smoke would mean less unburnt fuel, which should help mpg even if slightly, I'm still trying to decide if the smarty or edge would make any difference in mpg, I tried the trinity and lost mpg



thanks

Timing is the biggest factor in mpg's on a 04. 5-07, Smarty has the best timing.

I just had a smarty jr put on my 2004. 5 3500. A local shop specialising in Dodge Cummins set it on 2 and 2 with I guess the torque management set at 70%. I was told this would be what I required for towing my 8k toy hauler and getting reasonably good milage and not being too hard on my 48re. It is rather confusing to me also compared to my old 2001 that had a Edge with Attitude that was very straight forward to program IMO. Do any of you out there with my setup have an opinion on the way mine's setup?

The only think you can set at 70% is PoD, and I would NEVER use anything but PoD 99 for towing. By setting the PoD at 70 you are limiting yourself to 70% throttle, which will probably be less power than stock. .



SW1, TM2, TQ4, PoD 99... and leave it until you get some $$ for a valve body and tq converter.

well if you want to take care of the smoke you need to increase you air to balance out with the fueling. i came across a module that controls the waist gate. instead of building around 32 psi it will allow you to build between 40-48 psi. If any one has more information about this then please inform us of direct us. i will be doing more research myself.

Link? But the WG is disabled on the SJR, so your getting all the boost you can, which drives the DP thru the roof. I would hate to see the DP on a HE351 at 48 psi of boost! 38 psi is the most you want to run that compressor at anyways.

Again please someone correct me if im wrong but with TM set to 4 that advances your fuel timing. Which means you start fueling as if you had more foot in the pedal at lower RPM.



This will create black unburned fuel smoke because the truck is technically running rich until your turbo spools. Once your turbo spools the level of smoke should taper off.



If you don't want any smoke then you need to get a turbo that spools faster in your RPM cycle. Black smoke is ok at early RPM W/ a SMARTY jr. Other trucks with heavy fueling mods to be able to handle the fuel levels pour smoke down the track.



i hope this helps you.

Timing is not the same as pedal position. OEM timing is retarded to meet emissions. Advancing the timing will create more power, lower EGT's, higher cylinder pressure, and more pre-boost smoke.



TM2 is the best compromise between smoke and power/efficiency.

torq = smoke

Not 100% true. Back when the Jr was first released it was very smokey, and there were several beta revisions to reduce the smoke. I ran all of these on my truck for MADS and timing was the main culprit in pre-boost smoke. TQ made little to no difference.

 

[BGlidewell]

Not 100% true. Back when the Jr was first released it was very smokey, and there were several beta revisions to reduce the smoke. I ran all of these on my truck for MADS and timing was the main culprit in pre-boost smoke. TQ made little to no difference.

FUEL produces smoke. I've run my SMARTY (not a jr) on every program there is. "9" (the most fuel)with "4" timing and no TM is DRAMATICALLY less smoke than TM on any setting other than off.

 

[ttm]

Timing is the biggest factor in mpg's on a 04. 5-07, Smarty has the best timing.

I have read someplace and can not find it now, someone had changed the timing by the crankshaft position, doing this by enlarging holes on the pulley and turning it?, I assume they were advancing the fuel timing this way?



I have also read about our later model camshafts being a culprit in poor mpg in a couple different places (changes were made to make the tree huggers happy)

Timing is not the same as pedal position. OEM timing is retarded to meet emissions. Advancing the timing will create more power, lower EGT's, higher cylinder pressure, and more pre-boost smoke.

 

[AH64ID]

FUEL produces smoke. I've run my SMARTY (not a jr) on every program there is. "9" (the most fuel)with "4" timing and no TM is DRAMATICALLY less smoke than TM on any setting other than off.

Fuel does produce smoke, and when injected too early it doesn't burn properly, especially on the poor piston design of 04. 5-07. All the beta Jr programs (which I still have) went thru different timing and tq management settings (this was pre-revo) and the only thing that had an effect on smoke was timing.

I only run TM2 because TM4 is TOO smokey, do some reading on Jr threads you will see that its timing. TM4 does produce a little more power and economy but the low end smoke is unreal.

I would go between TQ3, TQ4, and TQ2 and there is zero change in smoke.

IIRC the Jr TM4 is the same as TM3 on the Sr. TM2 on the Jr is not an option on the Revo Sr, from what I understand from back in the initial release days.

I have read someplace and can not find it now, someone had changed the timing by the crankshaft position, doing this by enlarging holes on the pulley and turning it?, I assume they were advancing the fuel timing this way?

I have also read about our later model camshafts being a culprit in poor mpg in a couple different places (changes were made to make the tree huggers happy)

The cam is actually the same 03-07, but the piston design and injection events in 04. 5 were added to keep the EPA happy.

Yes some people advance the timing that way, or use a rokktech sensor. I prefer dynamic increases with the Jr.

 

[ttm]

The cam is actually the same 03-07, but the piston design and injection events in 04. 5 were added to keep the EPA happy.



Yes some people advance the timing that way, or use a rokktech sensor. I prefer dynamic increases with the Jr.

and see I was reading somewhere the cam was different 04. 5 up, I have not read about the rokktech sensor, why do you prefer the increases with the JR, because it does more than effect timing?



thanks again

 

[AH64ID]

It's a common mistake that the 03-04 and 04. 5-07 cams are different, but the part number is the same and several cam companies I have talked to said they are all the same grind.

The Jr effects timing dynamically, not static like an adj sensor, and you can adjust your tq management and tire size with it. . Then on SW2 and SW3 you can add fuel if you want it.

 

[AH64ID]

I've run my SMARTY (not a jr) on every program there is.

I wanted to add that the Sr and Jr have very different TQ settings. The most aggressive on the Jr is the same as the least aggressive (other than stock) on the Sr.



On a VERY hot day (above 90°) you will get some increase effect from TQ on smoke on a Jr, but on a normal day (at least normal around here) TQ just doesn't effect the smoke like timing does.

 

[cerberusiam]

well if you want to take care of the smoke you need to increase you air to balance out with the fueling. i came across a module that controls the waist gate. instead of building around 32 psi it will allow you to build between 40-48 psi. If any one has more information about this then please inform us of direct us.

Yeah, its called a boost fooler but it can't increase boost that is not there. The settings that cause smoke are really just increasing the low\no boost fooling and that will almost always result in smoke. It is unavoidable until the turbo spools. Any product that claims to make usable boost over 40 psi is a scam looking for participants.

and see I was reading somewhere the cam was different 04. 5 up

The profile on an 04. 5+ cam is different for emissions reasons and how the combustion event is designed to work. The aftermarket diesel cam grinders are far behind the curve when it comes to profiling these cams because of the niche market. They will tell you the grind is the same for an 03-07 cam and that may be true for the cams they turn out but it isn't for an OEM cam. They want to talk about lift and duration and gloss over the rest of the important aspects of an actual profile simply becuase they don't play as big a role in forced induction engine. Its the super secret squirrel password mentality again. :-laf



Timing is just one aspect of the whole combustion sequence that can be altered and Smarty does the best job and controling and giving you options for setting it based on different configurations. Duration of the events, pressure, etc, all play into making good clean power. Don't try to isolate one aspect as being the most important lest you use sight of the goal.

 

[AH64ID]

The profile on an 04. 5+ cam is different for emissions reasons and how the combustion event is designed to work. The aftermarket diesel cam grinders are far behind the curve when it comes to profiling these cams because of the niche market. They will tell you the grind is the same for an 03-07 cam and that may be true for the cams they turn out but it isn't for an OEM cam. They want to talk about lift and duration and gloss over the rest of the important aspects of an actual profile simply becuase they don't play as big a role in forced induction engine. Its the super secret squirrel password mentality again. :-laf.

You are still the only one I know that thinks the 03-04 and 04. 5-07 cams are different.

 

[cerberusiam]

You are still the only one I know that thinks the 03-04 and 04. 5-07 cams are different.

LOL! :-laf You don't know enough people that understand cam profiles and their impact.



You of all people should have an inkling since you have an aftermarket cam.