Fuel dilution

[SnoKing]

Do the 6. 7 CC have the fuel dilution issues that the pickups have? Snoking

 

[AH64ID]

Yes, its from the regeneration process.

 

[SnoKing]

Well, GM got smart in 2011 and put a 9th injector in the exhaust system rather than putting the extra fuel in the cylinders. It is about time Dodge wises up and puts the DEF fluid setup on the pickups and fixes the oil/fuel dilution issue. Then I will be ready for a new truck.



Dilution.



Snoking

 

[HBarlow]

I own an '08 cab and chassis with 107k miles on it now. I have never had any problem with fuel dilution or even a sooting issue.

 

[AH64ID]

I agree SCR and a 7th injector would be the way to go for Dodge.

Harvey, does your oil change reminder come on before 7500 miles? If so then the ECM has calculated your fuel dilution to be at the max allowed level. While it may not have presented as an issue to you as a driver, fuel dilution is an issue on anything that regenerates without an added injector.

 

[HBarlow]

The cab and chassis doesn't even have an oil change reminder. I have changed the engine oil at 10,000 mile intervals on this truck since new as I did the previous '01 and '06. I have forgotten to even reset the counter so as far as the ECM knows it has been 50k or 60k miles, perhaps more, since my oil was changed.

I don't have any interest in adding additional cost and complexity to have an SCR and/or a seventh injector. The C&C version works fine as delivered.

 

[JGilbert]

I agree SCR and a 7th injector would be the way to go for Dodge.

Harvey, does your oil change reminder come on before 7500 miles? If so then the ECM has calculated your fuel dilution to be at the max allowed level. While it may not have presented as an issue to you as a driver, fuel dilution is an issue on anything that regenerates without an added injector.

Ummm... ... ... . I'm nearly at 50,000 miles on my 08 5500. My Ram has never prompted me to change my oil. I have changed my oil at 5000 mile intervals, but with the last oil change, I went to synthetics. I will be looking to change it this time at 10,000 miles.

Joe

 

[AH64ID]

Interesting, the 2008 3500 C&C owners manual describes a oil change reminder on the EVIC. Does your C&C not have a EVIC? The C&C's I have been in all had an EVIC, but I wonder if its an option?

Personally you couldn't convince me in any way shape or form to extend the OCI on any 6. 7 with the emissions equipment intact. Fuel dilution is a fact of life on the 6. 7, C&C or p/u, just based on how the truck goes into regen. Due to the short oil life of all diesels needing CJ oil the TBN has been significantly reduces as fuel is now the number one killer of oil life, not contaminates or acidity. Even companies that are promoting extended OCI's don't recommend it on the 6. 7 without UOA.

 

[HBarlow]

Yes, it has an EVIC but no oil change warning. The owner's manual is probably the same text for pickups and C&Cs and perhaps was even printed in quantity when an oil change warning was planned or assumed for C&Cs as well as pickups. Whatever - there is no programming for oil change warning.

A real mechanic has done almost all of my oil and filter services and neither of us has ever noticed any fuel smell or evidence of fuel dilution at 10k service intervals. At 107,000 miles it uses no oil and makes no oil between changes.

If the engine ever fails due to neglect I'll either buy a new Cummins reman or a new truck. I will not be spending any time worrying about it though. I've been completely satisfied with this truck and probably won't ever replace it. I paid cash for it and it will provide good service as long as I want or need a truck.

I am sure that the Gen IVs are more refined and have some desirable features but they are also more expensive, more complex, and have more electronics and more computers making decisions for their owners. I don't want that.

 

[AH64ID]

Very interesting, the owners manuals I was reading are C&C specific.

Have you ever done a UOA?

 

[HBarlow]

No, I thought about it years ago when I was new to TDR and learning everything I could. I concluded that for me, spending large sums of money for aftermarket equipment and having oil samples analyzed in order to continue running old oil with failed additive packages for 20 or 50 or even 100k miles as some posted of doing didn't make sense to me. I just change it and ignore it.

I've never had an oil sample done, never used anything but ordinary brand name dinosaur oil and Fleetguard filters, and always used a 10k service interval. If I was allowing harm to be done I never recognized the evidence in 325k miles on my first one, 230k on my second one, and 107k on my current one.

I haven't looked at the owner's manual for my truck in a long while so don't remember if it appeared to be specific for the C&C or generic. My truck was ordered in November or December '07 and delivered in early January '08.

 

[rscurtis]

Another thing to keep in mind is that the C&C application only met 2007 emission standards, unlike the PU meeting 2010 standards. The C&C did not have the adsorber catalyst with its frequent regeneration cycles, nor did it have the EGR cooler bypass found on the pickups. When 2010 came along, RAM went with SCR just as Ford and Chevy have. I agree with SNOKING on waiting for a new truck- for him that is, not me.

 

[AH64ID]

No, I thought about it years ago when I was new to TDR and learning everything I could. I concluded that for me, spending large sums of money for aftermarket equipment and having oil samples analyzed in order to continue running old oil with failed additive packages for 20 or 50 or even 100k miles as some posted of doing didn't make sense to me. I just change it and ignore it.



I've never had an oil sample done, never used anything but ordinary brand name dinosaur oil and Fleetguard filters, and always used a 10k service interval. If I was allowing harm to be done I never recognized the evidence in 325k miles on my first one, 230k on my second one, and 107k on my current one.



I haven't looked at the owner's manual for my truck in a long while so don't remember if it appeared to be specific for the C&C or generic. My truck was ordered in November or December '07 and delivered in early January '08.

The 01 and 06 were very different motors in terms of how they treat their oil, the 6. 7 is nothing like a 5. 9 on oil.



You are happy with your method of use, but knowing how the 6. 7 meets emissions I wouldn't even consider trying it without UOA, and I have no issues extended the OCI on my 5. 9.



The 07 vs 10 emissions may help, but regen is regen and regen puts fuel into the oil.

 

[HBarlow]

I think Curtis's post above does a good job of explaining why extended oil service schedules allows my engine to perform satisfactorily and me to relax and avoid worry.

 

[AH64ID]

I think Curtis's post above does a good job of explaining why extended oil service schedules allows my engine to perform satisfactorily and me to relax and avoid worry.

Regen is still regen, without UOA you don't know. Will it ever be enough to prematurely wear out an engine in the number of miles you plan to keep it? Who knows, but it's been fairly well documented that stock 6. 7s are very hard on oil, even if its only 07 emissions vs 10 emissions. The Furd and Dmax 07-10 motors (07 emissions) are just as hard on oil and also not recommended for extended oil drain intervals due to fuel dilution.

Since you do a lot of towing you probably doing much better on regen frequency than someone who doesn't, but just guessing your okay when there is data to support otherwise isn't wise, IMHO.

 

[HBarlow]

If your concern is based on fact I wonder why Cummins and Dodge were not sufficiently concerned to install or program an oil change monitor into the cab and chassis trucks.

You claim that cab and chassis trucks have the same issues as pickups and have the same ECM program that warns the driver of a need for oil change but two of us who own cab and chassis trucks, JGilbert and myself, have posted here that there is no such warning.

 

[AH64ID]

If your concern is based on fact I wonder why Cummins and Dodge were not sufficiently concerned to install or program an oil change monitor into the cab and chassis trucks.

You claim that cab and chassis trucks have the same issues as pickups and have the same ECM program that warns the driver of a need for oil change but two of us who own cab and chassis trucks, JGilbert and myself, have posted here that there is no such warning.

It's a simple fact that when regeneration is completed without an injector in the exhaust that it puts fuel into the oil.

As far as the oil change reminder I was simply conveying what was in the owners manual, which have been known to not be 100% accurate.

Either way you are simply coming up with every excuse possible for extending oil change intervals on a motor than has been recommended against extended oil change intervals for a specific reason, fuel dilution.

You specific use may limit regens and keep the fuel dilution lower, but there is only one way to know for sure and you aren't doing it. $25 UOA or $15K motor? Seems like an easy gamble to choose.

It really doesn't matter to me, I do UOA on my rigs and it has proven it self before.

 

[HBarlow]

Actually, the fact is that I'm not offering you an excuse for anything I do. I have no reason to. Frankly, what I do is none of your business and I don't care a whit what you think.

I simply stated a fact. I have had no indication of fuel dilution and perform my oil services at 10k miles because that is what I wish to do. It is my truck, my decision, and my responsibility if the engine wears out prematurely.

Who appointed you oil change supervisor?

Apparently Cummins and Dodge engineers were not sufficiently concerned about fuel dilution in the cab and chassis trucks to include the same programming as the pickups.

Did your mother ever suggest to you the old phrase, "mind your own business?"

 

[AH64ID]

Have you done a single thing to look for fuel dilution?

This thread is about fuel dilution, you say you have none. . but really you have zero clue if you have fuel dilution or not. You have never tested for it, period. .

I have stated you can do what you want, but you should not suggest to others that its acceptable when you are basing your decision on a hunch, not factual data.

You made it everyone's business when you posted. . if your not open to discussion, facts, or data than maybe you should refrain from using your keyboard.

 

[HBarlow]

What you should do is mind your own business and quit trying to persuade me or anyone else to perform oil samples. Read back over all my posts. I've simply stated a fact in my case. I have not attempted to persuade anyone else to do anything.

Give it up. I'm tired of reading your bull**** and won't reply to any more of it.