Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Injector Pump & Lift Pump Failure

[Cosmo]

Well, as long as you are smarter than the engineers at Bosch, Cummins, and/or Dodge, I guess that's cool.

 

[cerberusiam]

Well, as long as you are smarter than the engineers at Bosch, Cummins, and/or Dodge, I guess that's cool.

I guess even Bosch and Cummins are a bit brighter than that as they spec a minimum pressure for fuel delivery to maintain adequate fuel flow. As for Corporate, we all know what drives their rhetoric.



However, you have inadvertently hit directly on the difference between theoretical engineering and practical application with real world results. The VP-44 and the Cummins experience with it is a shining example of the very thing you hold to be so inviolate it can never be proven wrong.



You might want to step back thru some of the history here and acquaint yourself with the facts instead of relying on urban myths to support a theory disproven by simple high school physics. The Search button can be a valuable asset for personal growth.

 

[Cowboy]

this is SOP for dealers to do since they dont like to replace the" on the block" lift pumps and these in tank pumps are infinately more reliable than your stock setup,especialy since your truck is stock, these pumps are required to PUSH ONLY and are submeged in cooling fuel, and are not subjected to the heat and VIBRATION of the 5. 9 (plus they are mfg'd better because of the liability the old style cost the dodge boys) I ran that setup after my dealer suggested it when I got near the end of my warranty (02 3500 ho 6spd) lasted 3 years, dynod at 454 hp at diesel madness in 06 at Saitta Trudeau, Pahrump,NV (my dealer) when I sold it the pump was still pumpin' and the truck was still kikin' butt!!

 

[Cowboy]

cerbusiam is obviously well versed in hydraulic physics, I was a piping engineer, designing hvac systems in high rise and high volume systems. the physics of fluid flow are subject to the same laws of nature whether a straw sucking on lemonade or fuel flow to the space shuttle. the only variables are the systems themselves, not the physics involved

 

[Cosmo]

Ok, so the factory service manual is urban legend, and everything written on the internet as found by the search function is undeniable fact.

Alright, glad I've been corrected on that.


I'm provided certain tools and information to diagnose and correct problems, if the information I am provided is inaccurate, then that's on the provider of the information.

 

[Nyoest]

Guys I'm not proclaiming I'm the smartest guy in the room but I sure wouldn't compare a vp 44 to drinking lemonade.

I had a truck that several codes. I checked both lift pressure and flow. Pressure was fine and flow was under spec. Raptor warrantied the pump and the new pump passed both pressure and flow tests. Nothing changed other that the lift pump, date and maybe ambient temperature, by about 5 degrees.

I understand the point you guys are trying to make but I haven't had the same experience.

 

[cerberusiam]

I'm provided certain tools and information to diagnose and correct problems

Yes you are, but, you still have to be ablle to apply all that in a rational manner. Banging nails with a screw driver is doable, just not very effective.



There is no replacement for using the ol' Mark I to solve a problem. If blind obesiance the the procedures is all that is required, monkeys could do the job.

I understand the point you guys are trying to make but I haven't had the same experience.

Every situation is different. Your experience is entirely within the realm of believeable as is a pump that will meet flow spec at 1-2 psi and fail at 12 psi, or, a pump that will meet flow spec at pressure in the shop and fail as it warms up and works going down the road.



It is not a hard and fast rule in every situation.

 

[Cosmo]

Guys I'm not proclaiming I'm the smartest guy in the room but I sure wouldn't compare a vp 44 to drinking lemonade.



I had a truck that several codes. I checked both lift pressure and flow. Pressure was fine and flow was under spec. Raptor warrantied the pump and the new pump passed both pressure and flow tests. Nothing changed other that the lift pump, date and maybe ambient temperature, by about 5 degrees.



I understand the point you guys are trying to make but I haven't had the same experience.

And that's perhaps why Dodge goes with the flow test to determine a bad pump.



Of course, the mechanical pressure gauge is the first thing to grab when diagnosing a fuel issue, but good pressure doesn't always mean good pump.

 

[Bob4x4]

The lift pump threads are always good entertainment... ... ... ... Guys Dodge does not come up with the test procedures or spec's. They come from Cummins. Cummins has revised their test and specs many times. In the early days of the 24 valve I would get a Cummins guy on the phone when calling star.

IMHO the questions we need to ask when deciding on stock or high dollar pump system are what hp will I end up with and while I am travelling can I afford to wait for a High dollar pump to be shipped to me when it quits.

Last week I had a truck (with a high$ Canadian) pump that would blow the fuse after getting Hot. He decided to make a run for home with a big supply of fuses rather than the intank set-up. I think a mistake with a very mild 03 but hey his truck his decision.

 

[Deactivated (requested sold truck)]

Thanks to all for your input - I am getting a gauge put in this week. Also I had no idea my thread would cause such a stir. I guees some people just have to be right all the time.

 

[Cosmo]

I guees some people just have to be right all the time.

Yeah, that's the truth. :-{}



:-laf

 

[Ralph Heron]

vulcan big line and relocation

with the stock setup, was burning through Carters every 3K-5K miles (actually had a few that lasted less than 1K).



bought the bigline kit and moved the carter to the framerail just in front of the tank (still using stock filter and post filter sender feeding an autometer Ultralite FP guage).



The current Carter pump has been running without issue for the last 25K... FP never drops < 9 lbs/in^2 WOT (pulling ~27 psi boost).



IMHO (and experience) unless you are pushing for large HP, the carter is just fine if its moved close to the tank and away from the vibration of the ISB...

 

[Road Dog]

I have been talking with a Diesel Tech (Ford guy) friend of mine and he said that a gauge fuel pressure won't help much. He said you can have pressure but not volume so the pressure gauge is a waste of $. Any ideas about it?

If he's talking about hooking a pressure gauge and checking it at idle then he's right -- it won't tell you much. If you put a gauge in the cab and keep an eye on it while powering up a hill then he's wrong.

Fuel pressure under full throttle is worth knowing.