Better RV Brands?

[JMDancoe]

I have a 1990 Jayco that I am re-flooring for use by my kids for short-haul weekend caming trips. It is a Mississippi trailer and suffered bad rot problems. It's probably more of a project than I should have gotten into, but what the heck. BIggest problem here is getting enough dry weather to work on it. I would seriously suggest that anyone undertaking similar repairs have a shop to work in.

Also, I am looking at a purchase of a 2012 Holiday Rambler (Traveler model). Will be 27, 30 or 32 foot version. The 32 has double "super slides" that are across from each other, making the living room huge. Anyone having experience with Holiday Rambler, I would like to hear your thoughts. From what I see here, they are pretty well thought of. Saw a post that "slides" leak. It was stated in a manner that seemed as though that was something to expect. Is there any cure for it. Have a need for the large living room, so like the slides. Just wondering if they will be more problems than they are worth. I will appreciate any comments. In advance, thanks for anything you put forth.

_________________________________________________________________________

: 86/92 Retro D-250, 5. 9 Cummins w/auto, 2wd - 254,000 / 96 Ram 1500 short bed, 318 w/auto, 4wd - 320,000 / 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4. 0 w/auto, 4wd - 200,000 Dodge/Chrystler all the way

 

[RustyJC]

Saw a post that "slides" leak. It was stated in a manner that seemed as though that was something to expect.

We've owned 3 5th wheels with slides and only had a leak problem with one of them (a 1996 model) where a small stretch of trim strip at the top of a slideout was missed when the sealant was applied. This could have happened just as easily with a main wall section as a slideout. Once it was sealed, we had no more problems with any slideout leaks.



Rusty

 

[JMDancoe]

Thanks Rusty. I am planning to go full time and want to not make too many mistakes. I know me and will probably make more than a few.

______________________________________________________________________

: 86/92 Retro D-250, 5. 9 Cummins w/auto, 2wd - 254,000 / 96 Ram 1500 short bed, 318 w/auto, 4wd - 320,000 / 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4. 0 w/auto, 4wd - 200,000 Dodge/Chrystler all the way

 

[HBarlow]

I have a 1990 Jayco that I am re-flooring for use by my kids for short-haul weekend caming trips. It is a Mississippi trailer and suffered bad rot problems. It's probably more of a project than I should have gotten into, but what the heck. BIggest problem here is getting enough dry weather to work on it. I would seriously suggest that anyone undertaking similar repairs have a shop to work in.
Also, I am looking at a purchase of a 2012 Holiday Rambler (Traveler model). Will be 27, 30 or 32 foot version. The 32 has double "super slides" that are across from each other, making the living room huge. Anyone having experience with Holiday Rambler, I would like to hear your thoughts. From what I see here, they are pretty well thought of. Saw a post that "slides" leak. It was stated in a manner that seemed as though that was something to expect. Is there any cure for it. Have a need for the large living room, so like the slides. Just wondering if they will be more problems than they are worth. I will appreciate any comments. In advance, thanks for anything you put forth.


_________________________________________________________________________
: 86/92 Retro D-250, 5. 9 Cummins w/auto, 2wd - 254,000 / 96 Ram 1500 short bed, 318 w/auto, 4wd - 320,000 / 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4. 0 w/auto, 4wd - 200,000 Dodge/Chrystler all the way

There was some discussion about Holiday Rambler brand trailers a week or two ago. You may want to find and read them.


The short history is HR started in early '50s and was a well made and popular product, somewhat expensive in the '50s through '70s. Later competition from cheaply built and lower priced trailers hurt their sales. In the '90s (I think) Monaco Coach, a motorhome builder bought HR and continued building mostly fifthwheels until the 2007 crash took them down. I think someone, perhaps Grizzly, reported they had restarted recently.

The quality of new HR products is completely unknown. I would guess is the old HR quality is gone and what they build now is a standard cheap Elhart product by a different name.

I would not choose one for full time or heavy use unless careful examination proved me wrong.

Edit: Slides in well built trailers do not leak.

 

[JMDancoe]

Thanks Harvey, I appreciate the come back. Will consider the comments you made along with all others if there are more. I am getting an unbelieveable price on a brand new one, so am willing to lean a little. As long as it is not going to be a major headache.

Thanks again. By the way, are all the trailers produced out of Elkhart that bad or just certain brands?

 

[RonD]

Elkhart is the capitol of a huge amount of RV's, Keystone for one, and there many brands they own. If your looking for the very best money can buy, that isn't where you want to look. I have owned 4, 5th wheel trailers, one was used, and three were new, the last one is a 1010 Keystone Montana, is it a great rig?, NO, it isn't, but is fine for what we use it for, I have towed it about 30,000 miles, spent about 200 nights in it, and have had issues, but small ones, nothing major. Point being if one wants to spend 50% more, you will get a better unit for sure, if someone would rather buy a used high end 5th wheel that is an option, just like buying a new Toyota for 35 grand, or buying a used Mercedes for 35 grand, we all have choices. As for some comments made regarding Keystone products, like Chinese frames, and axles, the frames are made by Lippert, the slides are also, and the landing gear system, as are many other brands, the axels are made by Dexter, the suspension and pin box are made by More-Ride. Where Keystone comes a little short is things like sloppy wireing, the furnitire is not as good as it could be, most of if not all the components used are the same as all manufactureres use, I don't have a love affair with Keystone products, but there not as bad today as they were years back.

 

[JMDancoe]

Thanks Ron. I truly appreciate all the input I am getting. Being as the deal I am getting is for less than half the MSRP, and the interest rate, I can't quote. I guess I am trying to find out if there are any major issues with the new Holiday Ramblers. I am sure that whichever one I end up with, those of you on the RV threads here, will be hearing from me. I will post all that comes up and the places I go. I believe in TDR and it's many forums. Hope to see you out there sometime and Thanks again.

____________________________________________________________________

: 86/92 Retro D-250, 5. 9 Cummins w/auto, 2wd - 254,000 / 96 Ram 1500 short bed, 318 w/auto, 4wd - 320,000 / 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4. 0 w/auto, 4wd - 200,000 Dodge/Chrystler all the way

 

[HBarlow]

It's true that not all brands made in Elkhart are bad but most are built to a lower end price point.

The really good ones, the Tetons, Travel Supreme, Alfa, and more were struggling along with slow sales and went under with the turndown in the economy. Nothing currently made in or near Elkhart is of comparable quality to Teton, Travel Supreme, and Alfa of earlier years. I judge the industry by that standard.

The fundamental fact to understand about RVs is the quality or lack thereof is not visible to a new prospective buyer on a dealer's lot. What most people see is the shallow surface glitz and glitter, bright shiny lamp fixtures, designer colors, and other fluff that excites the women. A buyer should educate himself about RV build materials and methods and tour several factories to watch the units in construction. Weight and price actually tell a typical uninformed shopper more than he understands or considers.

Nothing a factory rep or dealer salesman tells a prospect is of any value to the buying decision. Most factory brochures and websites contain nothing but flowery language and exaggated partial truths.

 

[HBarlow]

Thanks Ron. I truly appreciate all the input I am getting. Being as the deal I am getting is for less than half the MSRP, and the interest rate, I can't quote. I guess I am trying to find out if there are any major issues with the new Holiday Ramblers. I am sure that whichever one I end up with, those of you on the RV threads here, will be hearing from me. I will post all that comes up and the places I go. I believe in TDR and it's many forums. Hope to see you out there sometime and Thanks again.
____________________________________________________________________
: 86/92 Retro D-250, 5. 9 Cummins w/auto, 2wd – 254,000 / 96 Ram 1500 short bed, 318 w/auto, 4wd – 320,000 / 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4. 0 w/auto, 4wd – 200,000 Dodge/Chrystler all the way

Less than half of MSRP? That may mean very little. Not a very good basis for a purchase decision.

 

[JMDancoe]

Harvey: You are right about all you have said and I appreciate it very much. I can't really say I know of many things produced in this country anymore (and there are some things for sure) that are of the quality standard of years gone by. I am 66 years old and can also remember quality products. I am also "living" on social security and therefore the price is important, but by no means the only matter to consider. That is why I came on here and asked for input. I have to wonder if anyone really puts out a truly quality unit at a price that is reasonable. Thanks again and hope to see you out there also.

 

[HBarlow]

You haven't mentioned how you will use the trailer. It is not our business if you don't wish to mention it but we might be able to offer more useful advice if we knew what you will do with the trailer, how many annual miles if any you will tow it, and what you will tow it with.

The advice I have offered and followed several times for myself in past years is like Ron mentioned above. Buy a high quality used unit and install a fresh new quality mattress rather than a cheaply built new one.

You're not likely to hear anything negative about the HR trailer because they've only been manufactured for a year or two. It is a fresh new product with no history other than an old name.

 

[JMDancoe]

Sorry Harvey, I tried to get back sooner, but had some things come up. First the internet crashed here (not uncommon) and then my granddaughter called for me to pick her up at school.

Anyway, I will be living in it full time (except when at my brother's home in Colorado). It will probably move once a month or every other month the rest of the year. Up north in the summer and down south in the winter. My lady friend is a professional level costume/dress maker and serious crafter for profit. Locations will vary from National Parks/COE campgrounds to RV parks and private property all around the country. Alana wants to attend certain conventions where she markets her goods. Other than that, things are subject to change. How are Rv companies about honoring their warranties? The HR comes with a 5 year warranty. I am an ex-trucker and ex-mechanic. My brother's home in Colorado has a very nice shop in which to do some of anything it needs. Actually prefer to do work myself as long as manufacturer supplies correct parts. John, (my brother) is also a TDR member and is a 45 year mecahnic on cars, light trucks, heavey trucks and fire trucks. Hope this helps. Why I didn't think of this is beyond me. Appreciate you asking. Jim

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

86/92 Retro D-250, 5. 9 Cummins w/auto, 2wd - 254,000 / 96 Ram 1500 short bed, 318 w/auto, 4wd - 320,000 / 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4. 0 w/auto, 4wd - 200,000 Dodge/Chrystler all the way

 

[AClayton]

If what you say is true about you living in the RV, then Harvey's advice has been spot on. A Keystone or even HR won't come close to meeting your expectations when you actually 'live' in them. They are weekend travelers only! You need to wisely accept the fact that you will need a model with exceptional insulation in the underbelly and ceiling. A weekender RV will not render you the satisfaction you will come to rely on when the outdoor temp falls below 40*. The carpet, furniture, exterior doors and compartment doors, maybe even the appliances won't stand up to the increased wear that full-time living demands... ... . even if you live frugally!

You would be wise to purchase a higher quality used model and let your budget determine how old the model will need to be. You will be much happier in the long run.

 

[impaidilmic]

Better RV Brands

"The car will sell if it has everything people are looking for and priced competitive to the Lexus LS. "



No, it wont. The F50 was a much better car than the LS. Especially in ride and handling.

Infiniti did a lousy job of advertizing.

 

[JMDancoe]

AClayton: Thanks for responding. I have not had the best luck buying used anything. I usually find out the "real" reason the previous owner sold it a short time after purchasing it. I understand what you are saying. The old Jayco I have is an example. Given, it was old, but checked out fairly well for it's age until late this summer when I went through the floor coming into it. The previous owner had repaired the floor in a slip shod way and hid it very well. Now I have to refloor most of the unit. Plan to let kids use it locally for weekend trips only. Thanks again for input. Am still considering all ways of going. Jim

_________________________________________________________________

86/92 Retro D-250, 5. 9 Cummins w/auto, 2wd - 254,000 / 96 Ram 1500 short bed, 318 w/auto, 4wd - 320,000 / 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4. 0 w/auto, 4wd - 200,000 Dodge/Chrystler all the way

 

[HBarlow]

Jim,

Alan provided the advice I was going to give.

You will be very disappointed with any new lower priced conventional travel trailer. They are not well insulated, lack adequate storage space for full timing, and will wear out quickly. You'll be very uncomfortable in serious hot or cold weather and the plumbing will freeze when temps drop much below freezing.

The best solution for you would be a clean used Travel Supreme, Alfa, or one of the other now defunct premier RVs. It is easier to find one than you might think because they were purchased new by older, more affluent couples who took good care of them. Some buy them at retirement time and use them for a relatively short period of time due to health issues or discovery that they don't like the RV lifestyle. The current high and soon to rise to unprecedented levels gas and diesel prices will make larger, heavier, more expensive RVs easier to find and buy.

Here's an example. I bought low priced Fleetwood box trailers in the early '70s when that was what I could afford and had young children. In the '90s I bought used Airstreams and an Avion. In 2002 or 2003 I wanted a quality used fifthwheel. I searched online and found a '95 Travel Supreme in FL by private seller. I went to FL and bought it. I pulled it around the country until January '05 when I started pulling trailers for hire. I pulled the TS to IN and set it up in a county fairgrounds to live in as my home away from home when I returned from a haul. Overnight temp my first night in IN was about 0*. I lived in the old TS full-time in IN and Pendleton, OR until I quit transporting in November '07 and pulled it home. I had bought a new fifthwheel and my son-in-law, who is a very successful general contractor bought it for what I had paid for it for one of his job superintendents to use as temporary jobsite housing for contruction projects in other cities. His job supt. , a mature single man, has lived in that old TS in cities all over west TX and is still living in it today. About every six months I go and pick it up and move it to the next job site and park it in another RV park. It's in Granbury now and I'll move it to Vernon in a couple of weeks.

The job supt. became a friend and we have often talked about it. He loves the old TS. He has a home in Lbk he returns to on weekends but is very comfortable in the TS fifthwheel. The trailer still has all the original carpet, drapes, upholstery, cabinetry, kitchen and bath fixtures, etc. and is still in great shape. I replaced the refrigerator, had the furnace rebuilt, replaced the water pump, put new springs, shackles, and wheel bearings in it when I owned it. We've put several sets of high dollar Michelin XPS Ribs on it because they eventually age and we've put several sets of batteries in it but the trailer will apparently last forever.

The only drawback to a larger, heavy unit like that is you will need a dually pickup to haul it and towing requires skill and care. As an alternative, you could choose to drive a small economy car and call one of the big nationwide RV transport companies to move it for you whenever you're ready. They charge approximately $1. 50/loaded mile and are bonded, insured, and experienced. A driver will show up on the agreed move day, hook up, move it to your next location, back it into the spot, and drop it.

Jim, there is a lot to know about this for serious full-timing. We have answers if you'll ask. Your plans are not as simple as picking up an inexpensive small weekender trailer and taking the grandchildren to the state park for a weekend.

 

[JMDancoe]

Harvey: Man you guys are all I expected and more. I will consider all you have said. The last year and a half I trucked was as a "for hire" private hauler. I had a 2006 Dodge Dually and pulled a car hauler. My biggest customer was "Haulmark" who's cargo trailers I delivered all over the southwest. I went bankrupt doing it, due to several factors, one of which was the constant repair cost on the 2006. The most significant was the way Haulmark changed it's way we got paid. So part of this deal is getting financed. My lady friend works for one of the major banks and by buying through the bank, I get an interest rate I can't touch elsewhere. Through them we have looked at several trailers both new and used repo's. I ruled out the fifth wheel idea due to the need to carry (in truck - under shell) her crafting and sewing supplies, as well as finished product. So, that puts us in a bumper pull trailer. Last summer, while up in Colorado, I looked at a 1994 Holiday Rambler that looks brand new. The problem there is the weight. Dry, it weighs in at over 8500 lbs. I am not sure I want to pull something that heavey with my 86/92 Retro. I have also looked at a Keystone (5th wheeler), and several others. I can't say that in the approximate year I have been looking, I have ever seen the brands you mention. Have watched craigslist and local papers and to some extent checked with sales lots while traveling to and from Colorado.

I guess what I am trying to say, is that there are some limitting factors, that I have to live with. One other is that my lady friend and I are not sure this will work for us. If not, it will be me only in the trailer or I will sell it. The price becomes a factor here, as I should be able to sell it, in say a year, for just about what I am paying. I do sincerely appreciate the advice. I am hoping that the fact that nobody has come on whose bought an HR in the last 3 to 4 years suggests that there has not been any major problems with them. As I have said previously, both my brother and I are long time mechanics and do most of our own work, so minor things are not a problem. Maintainence is the key there. As to the cold weather factor, I know I will get caught eventually, but intend to not be in cold climate areas any more than I can possibly help.

Thanks again, you and the rest are a great bunch, as I expected. Still have not committted to the HR and am still researching review sites and such, but am leaning towards it for the reasons I just stated. Jim

 

[RVTRKN]

If your plans are to possibly sell your TT when your done with it or whatever your circumstance is? I would buy used, you will lose a lot of its value when you drive off the lot if you buy new. There are a lot of owners stuck with payments because they owe more than its worth. You see the adds all the time, where they try to get rid of them by having you take over the payments, and unless they find someone not familiar with the market they just keep paying the payment or it gets repossessed.

 

[JMDancoe]

RVTRKN: Thanks for the info. I have looked at used on both dealer lots (too high for what you get) and private owners (questionable as to why they're "really" selling it). Been looking for about a year now. I know one thing, I will not buy another one in MIssissippi or probably the entire deep south (please exempt Florida). Why? The rot down here is rampent! The HR I am considering retails for $27,000. 00 and I am getting it new for $11,000. 00 at way less than 2% interest. It is new and the price is due to a court deal. The interest is due to my lady friend's job with a major bank. I could not touch a trailer like it any other way. If, it doesn't work out for the both of us, I will probably keep it. However, if, as I suspect, the old Jayco I am giving the kids will be junk by then, they will "probably" get the new or used one that I purchase now. Selling would be the final option and would be, primarily, if I find out it is a lemon. I very deeply appreciate the input you, Harvey, Alan and the others have and are giving me. The final decision will probably come some time in mid March. As I have told the others, I hope to meet up with all of you out there someday. Thanks again. Maybe at a TDR rally. Jim

 

[RVTRKN]

JMDancoe, 11k new, I would not hesitate. You could always park it in camp ground and live in it. My Arctic Fox was purchased used and I found it on line 1500 miles from where I live. Dropped what I was doing and drove up to Oregon when they excepted my offer.