Public perception of Dodge Cummins

[Wertles]

Just for giggles and because I haven't looked in a while, I stopped in at the dealership to take a quick look at a new truck. They had a 3500 Crew Cab Laramie Max Tow dually 4X4, my current dream truck. I was very impressed with the fit and finish and quietness over my 06. Too bad my truck still looks like it came off the showroom floor and they want to give me junkyard prices on trade in.



Anyway, on with the story. On the way home, stopped in to a friends house who happened to mention that she was looking for a new (used) truck. I mentioned that I could make her an attractive offer on my Cummins Diesel 1 ton truck. Her first question was "Is it a V8?" I proudly told her no, it is a straight 6. She honestly came back with, "That would never work for me. I have to tow a horse trailer that weighs about 3,000 pounds. "



I wasn't so sure how to answer her so I showed her this picture and told her my straight 6 pulls this just fine at 65 mph.



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It is no wonder that Ram has trouble competing against Chevy and Ford. Ignorant public perception drives people to their dealerships. I just found this suprising and sad at the same time.

 

[JRBurton]

What kind of hitch are you using to pull that? I am looking to change mine around so I can pull my 5th wheel without hitting the cab.



John

 

[JBodenhamer]

I am just a few hours down the road from you. What are you asking for your Mega cab? Go a family and always looking around at these.

 

[Road Dog]

It is no wonder that Ram has trouble competing against Chevy and Ford. Ignorant public perception drives people to their dealerships. I just found this suprising and sad at the same time.

I don't understand. In Canada Dodge is number one in Diesel pickups. All three pickups (Ford, GM/Chevy & Dodge) are consistently in the top 5 for vehicle sales.

 

[Wertles]

What kind of hitch are you using to pull that? I am looking to change mine around so I can pull my 5th wheel without hitting the cab.



John

I have a Reese 20K with a slider. I had a 16K hitch but wanted to upgrade to a heavier one with this trailer. I am not all that happy with the 20K one. It is much harder to release the trailer than the 16K model. I don't need to use the slider very often at all with this trailer and the curved cap unlike my former Jayco that needed it slid every time I had to park.



JBodenhamer, I am not real serious for a new truck at this point. In the last year I have put in $8000 in transmission, Rickson 19. 5's and tires, air bags, Bilstein shocks, Reese 20K hitch, Smarty Jr and a few other things. 90% of the money I can't get back in resale at this point so $$$ wise, I feel I need to keep it for another year or 2 to get my investment out of it. Feel free to shoot me an offer and change my mind! It only has 85,000 miles and will be broken in soon.



Road Dog, I am glad that Dodge is number 1 in Canada. I have no problem with people making an educated purchase whether it be a Dodge, Chevy or (cough, cough) Ford but to lose out on a Dodge sale just because it is a 6 cylinder is just crazy. When Top Gear (which is a comedy show with cars, not a car show) put Chevy, Ford and Dodge diesel pickups head to head, they also made the comment during the drag race that the Dodge was at a disadvantage because it had 2 less cylinders. They made no comment about the same torque at a lower RPM, only HP and cylinder numbers.

 

[HBarlow]

Ignorance plays a major role in the light truck market as it does politics. Lots of folks truly believe that a V8 truck motor is more powerful. Even some TDR members don't really understand the difference. Some have previously owned GMs or Furds and, although they currently own a Dodge-Cummins, may choose a Furd or GM when they buy again.

 

[AClayton]

My research has concluded that 05 thru early 07 models are getting top dollar because they lack the DPF's and emission hardware. If they truly wanted you to buy a new Ram I think they would have sweetened the pot for you. I have been looking to get an 06' in great shape and from what they are asking for them, I could add $10k and get a new one. I know $10k is a lot of money to save vs. a new truck but the fuel economy is what I can't get past. The new trucks get very poor mileage. I will just make my 01' last longer..... just got it re-painted, the oil leaks fixed and will be adding a max-brake soon.

I saw that ridiculous Top Gear comedy special! What a poor display of true journalism! Those 3 jokers had no clue what they were doing.

Ram is behind right now... ... I will wait until they get the fuel economy back up and then I will purchase a new truck. I understand the next model year will possibly be my chance... . that's good, because riding in my truck feels like trucking back in the old days with turbos spinning, loud engine noise and all the shifting and button hitting I need to do while I'm accelerating. It will be nice to have power to pull my trailers and also be able to think and concentrate while driving... ..... I won't know how to act!!

Alan

 

[HBarlow]

The line about poor fuel economy delivered by the ISB6. 7s and the wild-eyed claims of instant fuel economy improvements with unplugging or blocking the EGR are mostly false and exaggerated but is repeated here almost every day by members who don't own one and know essentially nothing about them.

I owned an '06 and have owned an '08 since January '08. Fuel mileage has been the same.

 

[Jim W]

The line about poor fuel economy delivered by the ISB6. 7s and the wild-eyed claims of instant fuel economy improvements with unplugging or blocking the EGR are mostly false and exaggerated but is repeated here almost every day by members who don't own one and know essentially nothing about them.



I owned an '06 and have owned an '08 since January '08. Fuel mileage has been the same.

Sorry Harvey, I have document proof that un-plugging the EGR will raise the fuel mileage on the 6. 7L and also by deleting this will raise it some more. Although not as much as some claim but the mileage has improved. I have the mileage recorded as a yearly average and weekly average. The mileage was also noted if I was towing and or city/highway driving and where. This is for four years and counting.



My observation of the mileage for the year average for each year was for the time period Nov 07 till Nov 08, 11. 59 MPG, truck was factory stock condition. For the time Period of Nov 08 to Nov 09, 13. 11 MPG, Egr was un-plugged for 5 months and then the truck was deleted in Aug of 09. For the time period of Nov 09 till Nov 10, 14. 17 MPG, no changes in truck configuration. For the time period of Nov 10 till Nov 11, mileage was 13. 83 MPG.



We bought my wife a new VW TDI Jetta in June of 11 and the truck is now used mainly as a tow vehicle and to haul items in the bed. Very little pleasure driving is done with the truck now.

Jim W.

 

[HBarlow]

Jim,

I know your experience and don't dispute it but my point is really about the wild claims of how inefficient the ISB6. 7 is and how much better fuel economy is delivered by the ISB5. 9. I doubt the difference is much more than one mpg yet many will spend thousands of dollars rebuilding and modifying the 48RE automatic, adding an exhaust brake, and making other modifications such as injectors to the ISB5. 9 to make it reliable and more capable while rejecting the 6. 7 as using too much fuel. Modifications and upgrades to a 5. 9 cost more than the fuel economy differential of a more comfortable later model truck with the 6. 7 engine and six speed automatic.

I know that you tell the truth and your records prove it but your truck has been completely deleted. Some unplug the EGR and make wild claims about huge improvements which are unlikely to be as good as they claim.

 

[RustyJC]

The new trucks get very poor mileage.

10. 2 MPG towing our 16,000 lb GVWR 5th wheel and 16-17 MPG on the highway unloaded at 70 MPH. That's about the same as my 2002 3500 ETH/DEE with 4. 10s.



Rusty

 

[Wertles]

From what I hear, the loaded trucks are pulling the same mileage, it is the empty trucks that show off the difference. I currently get about 18. 5-19 MPG highway and 10 towing the above trailer. I havent heard of the 6. 7 getting that. I do need a diesel for the 5th wheel and although I am towing multiple different trailers, the rest could all be hauled by a hemi. My next truck, as planned now, will be a daily driver as having a second vehicle as a daily driver really has not panned out to save me money. I am actually hoping that the pickup will adopt the DEF system as I think it will fit my duty cycle better than the current one. Also, Ram upped the power to be competitive, I hope by model year 2014 they will have upped the MPG as well however it will not stop me from buying one if fuel economy remains the same.

 

[Slow Six]

It's kind of interesting to observe reactions I have been getting with my new Longhorn. A lot of the Ford guys say it is to bad the engine is in a Dodge with crappy body, horrible seats and on & on. I than tell them to take a look and when they do there are a lot of long faces because they can see how wrong they have been. As for my 2012 I am extremely pleased with it. The quietness, ride, comfort, convenience, handling and towing ability are all excellent. Mileage is a little less than my previous trucks but I have more power.

 

[Road Dog]

I saw that ridiculous Top Gear comedy special! What a poor display of true journalism! Those 3 jokers had no clue what they were doing.

If you're talking about Jeremy Clarkson et al, they get to travel the world and drive the fastest most expensive cars in the world. I think they know exactly what they're doing.



Which episode had the pickups? I've seen all the British shows (I think). Was this on the Americano version?

 

[AClayton]

Jim,



I know your experience and don't dispute it but my point is really about the wild claims of how inefficient the ISB6. 7 is and how much better fuel economy is delivered by the ISB5. 9. I doubt the difference is much more than one mpg yet many will spend thousands of dollars rebuilding and modifying the 48RE automatic, adding an exhaust brake, and making other modifications such as injectors to the ISB5. 9 to make it reliable and more capable while rejecting the 6. 7 as using too much fuel. Modifications and upgrades to a 5. 9 cost more than the fuel economy differential of a more comfortable later model truck with the 6. 7 engine and six speed automatic.



I know that you tell the truth and your records prove it but your truck has been completely deleted. Some unplug the EGR and make wild claims about huge improvements which are unlikely to be as good as they claim.

Now that was actually a very good point and to be honest, I never looked at it from that angle. You can buy a lot of extra fuel for what those mods have cost me!



Is it possible that the C&C get a little better mileage when compared to the regular trucks? I do enjoy reading all the positive remarks that the new Ram get's and I would love to buy a truck that stands ready, right off the showroom floor, to pull my RV and other trailers. I use my truck mostly for a hauling my utility trailer around and average around 13 with my truck on average. Are you saying that 13 pulling a 5k trailer is what a new truck can expect to get??





Alan

 

[rscurtis]

It's kind of interesting to observe reactions I have been getting with my new Longhorn. A lot of the Ford guys say it is to bad the engine is in a Dodge with crappy body, horrible seats and on & on. I than tell them to take a look and when they do there are a lot of long faces because they can see how wrong they have been. As for my 2012 I am extremely pleased with it. The quietness, ride, comfort, convenience, handling and towing ability are all excellent. Mileage is a little less than my previous trucks but I have more power.

That's another old wive's tale that refuses to die, sort of like "Ford owns Cummings". It could be left over from the days of the first generation trucks.

 

[CBlack]

The line about poor fuel economy delivered by the ISB6. 7s and the wild-eyed claims of instant fuel economy improvements with unplugging or blocking the EGR are mostly false and exaggerated but is repeated here almost every day by members who don't own one and know essentially nothing about them.



I owned an '06 and have owned an '08 since January '08. Fuel mileage has been the same.

Sorry Harvey, I have document proof that un-plugging the EGR will raise the fuel mileage on the 6. 7L and also by deleting this will raise it some more. Although not as much as some claim but the mileage has improved. I have the mileage recorded as a yearly average and weekly average. The mileage was also noted if I was towing and or city/highway driving and where. This is for four years and counting.



My observation of the mileage for the year average for each year was for the time period Nov 07 till Nov 08, 11. 59 MPG, truck was factory stock condition. For the time Period of Nov 08 to Nov 09, 13. 11 MPG, Egr was un-plugged for 5 months and then the truck was deleted in Aug of 09. For the time period of Nov 09 till Nov 10, 14. 17 MPG, no changes in truck configuration. For the time period of Nov 10 till Nov 11, mileage was 13. 83 MPG.



We bought my wife a new VW TDI Jetta in June of 11 and the truck is now used mainly as a tow vehicle and to haul items in the bed. Very little pleasure driving is done with the truck now.

Jim W.

When I bought my current truck, I was averaging about 16. 5mpg on the highway. I unplugged the EGR and it immediately jumped to 18. Now, fully deleted, I'm getting 20. 5 highway and 17. 5 in town.



I'll have to ask my co-worker who has an 06 3500 what he sees for economy. I know someone who bought a new truck in 06 (4wd) and was getting 21. 5 off the lot.

 

[HBarlow]

Alan,

I really don't know if my C&C gets better fuel mileage than a pickup. The detuned C&C with an aerodynamic and lightweight bed might but the added weight of the steel bed and increased wind drag of mine might also zero any advantage out.

Likewise, I can't answer the question about a 5k trailer because the trailer shape will have more effect on mpg than weight. I do know that all three of the Rams I have owned delivered similar mpg when towing a fifthwheel, around 10 mpg depending on wind, road speed, and terrain. If memory serves, my first one, an '01 with NV-5600 and 3. 55 gears, would deliver around 13. 5mpg towing an 8,000 lb. Airstream across IL on a low wind speed day. The towing speed limit was 55mph so I set the cruise at 59mph and I-55, I-57, and I-70 are all relatively flat.

If someone is running 130,000 miles per year hauling trailers or hotshotting, one or two mpg at current diesel prices is a significant cost. But most of us aren't running that kind of annual miles. The late Gen III and Gen IV trucks with ISB6. 7s, six speed automatics, better brakes, OEM exhaust braking, quiet and plush cabs, are excellent trucks requiring no modifications to tow. The tiny loss of fuel economy doesn't really cost that much and can probably be nearly eliminated with a complete delete as Jim reported above.

I spent $6400 for the DTT rebuild I had in my '06back in '07 and close to $1000 for the Jacobs Exhaust Brake. Wertles stated he recently spent $8,000 for a similar transmission rebuild. Neither purchase is necessary with a 6. 7 and that money will buy a lot of diesel.

 

[jgillott]

My research has concluded that 05 thru early 07 models are getting top dollar because they lack the DPF's and emission hardware. If they truly wanted you to buy a new Ram I think they would have sweetened the pot for you. I have been looking to get an 06' in great shape and from what they are asking for them, I could add $10k and get a new one. I know $10k is a lot of money to save vs. a new truck but the fuel economy is what I can't get past.

It's very likely that the dealership knew exactly what that truck is worth and is looking at a great profit margin on the resale. I've said it here in other posts on the subject, the late 5. 9's are pulling crazy money right now. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with it, but I'm certainly not upset that my '07 in particular has held it's value the way it has.

I spent $6400 for the DTT rebuild I had in my '06back in '07 and close to $1000 for the Jacobs Exhaust Brake. Wertles stated he recently spent $8,000 for a similar transmission rebuild. Neither purchase is necessary with a 6. 7 and that money will buy a lot of diesel.

I agree with this 100%. I hear a lot of people talk about finding that perfect 5. 9L and then modifying it to do exactly what they want it to (I've had several very tempting offers on mine). Looking at fuel mileage and functionality alone, you end up with a massive investment in something that will never pay for itself in over time. Owning 2 of them, I am certainly satisfied with the late 5. 9's, but I certainly don't make them out to be more than what they really are.

 

[jhenderson]

My 04. 5 has 280,000 miles on it. It has-been a great truck. If I NEEDED a new truck, I would buy a new 6. 7 in a heartbeat. The new trucks do everything better. I have averaged 18 mpg empty and 13. 5 towing 16,000lbs plus for the entire time. I have the fuel logs to back it up. Loosing a cupel of mpg for all of the improvements would be worth it in my opinion.