2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission ABS Controller enlightenmnt

[JSchenck]

OK. I'm pretty mechanically inclined and do most of my work on my truck and many friends etc. I have on several occasions solved a wiring/mechanical issue that no one else could figure out. Would someone with a little more insight please educate me on the following. My ABS and brake light recently came on and NOTHING I did would reset it. The dealer said," I bet it's the rear wheel sensor. They always go out" Problem is my speedometer, which I know receives a tone signal from the same sensor, worked just fine, so I had my doubts about the dealer's "Off the cuff" diagnosis. To be sure, I took it in to them(a very respected dealer I might add) and paid a whopping $109. 00 for them to hook up the "Chrysler proprietary DRB scanner" and tell me that it was the CAB(Controller Anti Brake) module. Now, I know to hook the scanner up and retrieve the code takes all of about 5-10 minutes, but I do understand that since Chrysler has created their own proprietary DRB scanner to the tune of about 15 grand I am told, that the dealers have to recoup their investment. So now we have confirmed that the CAB is bad. Now the REALLY cool part! The new CAB... . It's VIN specific, and guess who the only source is for it????Yup. Chrysler. For a mere $526. 70 for the new CAB and thennnnnnnnnnnnnnn $166. 00 for the dealer to install it (which takes all of about 10 minutes) they hook up their handy dandy "Reflash" tool, and "burn" my VIN number into the new CAB so that it talks to my ECM(which I really suspect is a way to make sure that if my truck ends up in a wrecking yard someday that no one else who needs a CAB can use it in their truck) So, My question for any of you "more in the know" is this. Is all this "horsepoop" and $804. 20 really necessary or is this a built in money making program so that Chrysler and their dealers can make some easy money. I don't mind paying for parts and service, but this seems like a serious case of " We got you by the male appendage and we're gonna make you pay"

 

[JLandry]

Unfortunately it's all mostly true.



If you can find a used CAB on eBay with the same CAB part number that you have now, you can install it yourself then take the truck over to the dealer (or anyone else with a DRBIII scan tool) to have the correct VIN programmed.



Of course, buying a used CAB on eBay isn't risk free. There's always the possibility it could have mechanical or electrical problems.



Regards,



John L.

 

[JSchenck]

I was told that even if I were to find the same CAB on ebay or????? that if it has been installed in another truck previously that they are VIN specific. Once the VIN is "burned" into the CAB they will not work with any other vehicle as they are not reprogrammable to another vehicle? If true it looks like Chrysler has a pretty good monopoly on these CABs and their replacement.

 

[JLandry]

I was told that even if I were to find the same CAB on ebay or????? that if it has been installed in another truck previously that they are VIN specific. Once the VIN is "burned" into the CAB they will not work with any other vehicle as they are not reprogrammable to another vehicle?

I'll try to verify this for you.



I have a DRBIII and will see if it'll let me alter the VIN stored in the CAB already installed in my truck. There's a menu item in the ABS section of the DRBIII which says "Misc - Module Replacement," but I've never had the need to explore it.



Regards,



John L.

 

[JSchenck]

I got my new CAB module today and it has solved the problem albeit rather expensively. The dealer insists that one from the wrecking yard etc. can not be reprogrammed, but now you have piqued my curiosity. Ley me know what you find out. AND... . Thank you for your time and interest. Joe

 

[JLandry]

Joe,

I hooked up the DRBIII to my truck and the "Module Replacement" function under Anti-Lock Brakes simply steps through choosing a tire size and setting the rear axle type. There's no prompt offered to enter a VIN, and unlike the ECM (the Cummins engine controller), the VIN isn't even reported on the CAB module info page. The only things reported are the controller model type, software date, and software revision number, and model date.

So I don't know... the dealer may have been correct, or they could've told you a little story to sell you a new CAB. BTW, a brand new CAB can be ordered from Mopar-Wholesale online (a Florida Chrysler dealer) for $361. It sounds like you were charged the full retail price + tax.

It's interesting to note I've never seen any mention of being able to flash update the CAB module software in any of the DRBII manuals or Chrysler's training materials I've gotten my hands on. It seems the software isn't field updatable... not that it needs to be I guess.

You didn't keep your old CAB by chance did you?

Best regards,

John L.

 

[JSchenck]

John, I did keep the old CAB. I found a company (BBA) in Massachusetts that quoted me $125. 00 to repair it. They confirmed that they do not exchange CABS because of the VIN # being specific to a vehicle. I got 11 years out of the original so I decided to keep the defective one in case I need it repaired on down the road. No sense spending the money now. I may not have the truck when/if it fails again, or, there may be cheaper solutions by then. Thank you, Joe

 

[JLandry]

Joe,



While looking up the CAB part numbers in the Chrysler parts manual, I've discovered something a bit odd...



There are two separate entries in two different places with different part numbers for Anti-lock brake control modules. On one set of entires the drawing of the module doesn't look like the one under the hood on the hydraulic control unit. It could be different types are used for gas and diesel engines, but I don't see this distinction in the factory service manual.



Could you please do me a favor and check to see if the paperwork you got from your visit to the dealership lists the part number for your replacement CAB? I'm curious to see which part number you got.



Thanks in advance,



John L.

 

[Allnew2Me]

Is this the controller that is located in the cab on the trans hump, or the one on the actual ABS pump under the hood?

 

[JLandry]

Is this the controller that is located in the cab on the trans hump...

I believe that's the air bag controller on the transmission hump.

The only anti-lock brake module I'm aware of is under the hood on (or by, in the case of front wheel only systems) the anti-lock brake hydraulic control unit. .

John L.

 

[Bob4x4]

In many years you could purchase the entire unit-hydraulic and controller or controller alone

 

[Allnew2Me]

I was thinking about the Air bag controller, sorry for the confusion.



The reason I asked is because I had a friend with a 2001 that had an issue with the ABS module on the pump. The pump ran all the time, even with the key off. He was told, and correctly, that it was the ABS controller that is on the pump. The replacement cost from the dealer was very expensive so he found one at a wrecker and installed it on his truck, no flash, just a swap and it has worked fine for over a year now. I seem to remember him paying around $400 for the used one.

I don't know if it was off a gasser though, I could ask him if he remembers.

 

[Bob4x4]

I was thinking about the bag controller, sorry for the confusion.



The reason I asked is because I had a friend with a 2001 that had an issue with the ABS module on the pump. The pump ran all the time, even with the key off. He was told, and correctly, that it was the ABS controller that is on the pump. The replacement cost from the dealer was very expensive so he found one at a wrecker and installed it on his truck, no flash, just a swap and it has worked fine for over a year now. I seem to remember him paying around $400 for the used one.

I don't know if it was off a gasser though, I could ask him if he remembers.

might want check his speedo accurCy the pinion factor is entered/stored in the cab (controller antilock brake)

 

[JSchenck]

John, The part number on the old controller is P52010033AB. The "new fancy" one is P52010033AF. If my memory serves me correctly the 2001 had the option for rear wheel anti lock brakes (RWAL) or the upgraded all wheel anti lock brakes (AWAL). I think they each used a different type CAB. My truck has AWAL. Joe

 

[JLandry]

The part number on the old controller is P52010033AB. The "new fancy" one is P52010033AF.

Joe,



That's interesting.



According to the parts manual, 52010033AF is for the entire anti-lock brake unit including the CAB (the computer module), the proportioning valve, mounting bracket, pump motor, and even a couple of the short brake lines. On the website Mopar-Wholesale the selling price is $613. 60. List is shown as $867.



Part number 05017758AD seems to be for the CAB only and sells for $300. 90 on Mopar-Wholesale. List is $425.

If my memory serves me correctly the 2001 had the option for rear wheel anti lock brakes (RWAL) or the upgraded all wheel anti lock brakes (AWAL). I think they each used a different type CAB.

That's correct. The above part numbers are for the AWAL system. According to the parts manual, the changeover date from RWAL to AWAL brakes was 07-05-00.



John L.

 

[Ram4Sam]

John, I did keep the old CAB. I found a company (BBA) in Massachusetts that quoted me $125. 00 to repair it. They confirmed that they do not exchange CABS because of the VIN # being specific to a vehicle. I got 11 years out of the original so I decided to keep the defective one in case I need it repaired on down the road. No sense spending the money now. I may not have the truck when/if it fails again, or, there may be cheaper solutions by then. Thank you, Joe

Well, it appears I have been bitten by this bug, my two lights came on yesterday... . Checked the related fuse and relay, cleaned the plugs on the unit under the hood, hoping for a miracle..... nope.



Joe, could you send the contact info(name and number) for the "BBA" company you found?



John, is this module a common issue, are there any parts I should check downstream of the module that might be tripping the lights? Also, if I remove the module to get it repaired through Joe's source, can I still drive the truck ? Remove the fuse/relay?



Thanks in advance!



Sam

 

[JLandry]

John, is this module a common issue, are there any parts I should check downstream of the module that might be tripping the lights? Also, if I remove the module to get it repaired through Joe's source, can I still drive the truck ? Remove the fuse/relay?

Hi Sam,

I really don't know the answers to any of your questions, but I *think* you can drive the truck with the ABS unit disconnected with no ill effects... other than not having anti-lock brakes. The warning lamps on the instrument panel won't go away though. It shouldn't hurt to disconnect the CAB module and carefully test drive it to see if you notice any strange behavior.

Ideally, it'd be best to hook a Chrysler DRBIII scan tool to the truck first to find out specifically what's wrong with the ABS before you send the CAB module off for repairs. I say this because what if the problem isn't with the module itself? What if the module is fine but has detected a problem elsewhere in the system... like maybe in the pump motor, a solenoid valve, or even something simple like one of the front wheel sensors.

Speaking of wheel sensors, it couldn't hurt to do a visual inspection on the front sensor wires to make sure one didn't damaged recently thus triggering the warning lamps.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Good luck,

John L.

 

[Ram4Sam]

Thanks for the info, I don't like throwing parts at a problem with knowing what exactly the issue is. I did the key on/off and didn't get any codes on the odometer. Will a OBDII scanner show the kind of detail you mentioned or do I have to go to the dealer for the DRB scan to get that detailed info?



Thanks, Sam

 

[JLandry]

Sam,



Unfortunately it does require a Chrysler DBRIII to query the CAB module for trouble odes. A generic OBDII code scanner won't do it.



John L.

 

[Bob4x4]

Sam,hit me up you're not that far away

(pm me)