Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Erratic Fuel Pressure

[cerberusiam]

Gauges are 'Glow-Shift. ', yep, I know they are not the best, but... probably all come out of the same factory in Taiwan anyway... I will have to wait until tomorrow to get to the shop and get my mechanical gauge set up... I do not have any here at the house.

Before you do anything else, verify the gauge. Based on my experiences you will find there was nothing really wrong with the fuel system of LP.



Glowshift electric fuel gauge = POS!!!#@$%!



I have thrown 2 of those gauges away cuz they would flake out and do just exactly what you describe. Get an ISSPRO and save yourself major headaches.

 

[ILIANBG]

Yes, your gauge may be worth checking. That's why I have 2 Isspro or Autometer both have mechanical as well as electric gauges. VDO should have some too, and it should be made in Germany They make fine gauges that I've seen before.
You should compare with a test gauge at least, to be sure.
Ilian

 

[KrisKringle]

Tomorrow, I go to he shop...

Yes, your gauge may be worth checking. That's why I have 2 Isspro or Autometer both have mechanical as well as electric gauges. VDO should have some too, and it should be made in Germany They make fine gauges that I've seen before.
You should compare with a test gauge at least, to be sure.
Ilian

Thanks. I will go to the shop tomorrow after English class. (Not for me; I have an English School here... English Spoken Here)

When I do the test, I will post the results. If the gauges prove to be defective, next time I am in the States, I will make a trip to NJ (not so far from PA), where the Glow-schieß gauges come from, and put them in a most uncomfortable place... I will not be satisfied until the temp probe comes out of his nose, if you know what I mean.

As an aside, I purchased a Boost - Vacuum gauge, that out of the box never read zero. I sent an email, and received an RMA number... still no credit... SO yes, I am a bit 'edgy. ' Thanks for the help... at least I know that the DDRP is not the problem... I will check out VDO, as at Geno's with shipping is looking like 500$ without the 19% sales tax and in addition import duties too...

It used to be that Auto-meter gauges were made in the States. Where do ISSPRO come from?

more later (oh, I meant 'to the shop)---oops

 

[ILIANBG]

Yes, last Autometer I looked at was US made. I just oredered a trans. temp Autometer Z-series, and it says US made. My Isspros when I installed them were made in India. They look very well made. When I installed mine I verified with a friend's test gauge at the Schraeder valve and it was correct.
I really hope you get to the bottom of it soon and just enjoy driving without constantly looking at the gauge/s.
Ilian

 

[cerberusiam]

ISSPRO is based out of Portland Oregon. They claim the EV2 series gauges are made right the in Portland. Not sure about the other lines but I have had good luck with the EV and EV II both. They cost a bit more but seem to be a much better quality.

 

[ILIANBG]

Isspro is a good company. Never seen one fail yet. Mine are the EV series and were made in India. It's good if the new EV2 are made in US. I did not want another electric fuel pressure gauge, so that's why I got a mechanical EV series. No complaints. I've heard Isspro stands behind their products, no matter where they are made. It's good to know that. I also have used german made VDO gauges. Very good quality. If I were in Germany I'll be looking at some of those.
Ilian

 

[KrisKringle]

Vdo...

Isspro is a good company. Never seen one fail yet. Mine are the EV series and were made in India. It's good if the new EV2 are made in US. I did not want another electric fuel pressure gauge, so that's why I got a mechanical EV series. No complaints. I've heard Isspro stands behind their products, no matter where they are made. It's good to know that. I also have used german made VDO gauges. Very good quality. If I were in Germany I'll be looking at some of those.
Ilian

The problem with the VDO is that just like everything else here in good old Germany, is usually twice as expensive as in the states... Cheaper to buy Bilsteins from Geno's and ship them over ( or bring them in my bag... here they cost over 160 € each! I forgot my adapter today, so I will stop by the shop and check the pressure with the mechanical gauge tomorrow. JK

 

[KrisKringle]

More information...Interesting stuff from Blue Chip...

Hey! I found some interesting stuff at Blue Chip Diesel under the topic 'VP44 Diagnostic' Here is an excerpt:

In my experience the 216 code is not a “Death Code” as some people say. It only tells you the Injection Pump can't attain full timing advance to provide good fuel mileage and power. If this is the ONLY code and you don't have any drivability issues, the VP44 does not need to be replaced, and most likely will not put you on the side of the road. If you DO have the 216 code you should check your Lift Pump pressure UNDER LOAD as Lift Pump pressure is what moves the timing piston and advances timing, so if Lift Pump pressure is low, that may be the cause of the 216 code.​

Well, I just went out and checked the codes... (The gauge was reading almost '0' as I was hauling some stuff today... guess what ? No codes. None...

Also I found an answer (possibly) why the FASS pumped the fuel so slowly when I tried to empty the line after the bucket test (mentioned earlier in Post 26, and part of the reason I changed the pump once... and now have two spares. )...

On the 'Lift Pump Help Page' (also from Blue Chip)

(Regarding the cooling of the VP44)... We thought this issue could be a simple fix. We would just make a control box that ran the lift pump for half an hour after shutting down the engine. During our research and development for this product we were really surprised to learn that there is no return fuel and therefore no cooling effect for the injection pump unless the shaft of it is turning!​

Jeepers... I cannot believe it. It is looking more like the problem has always lain with the cheap Taiwan POS gauge (or sender) from Glow-Scheiß... I will know for certain tomorrow. In the meantime, I ordered a sending unit from VDO... same specs as the one I have...

 

[KrisKringle]

What I was doing the other day...and why I worry about fuel pressure...

Ok, a bit off-topic... here is why I need a Dodge Ram Cummins:
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What an adventure... the idiots at the Lumber-yard had it all banded up, and just 'dropped' it on...

That would be over 1. 200 kilo on the rack... or around 2. 640 pounds for you all not on the metric system... I do not think I will do that again... but looks like the rack and bed-pockets survived... Oo.

Or a few tons in the bed:

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Try that with a Toyota, or Mazda...

 

[KrisKringle]

Uh, um...Listen to your Father, or cerberusiam...Problem Solved.

Depending on what gauge you have, the electrical sending unit types can have problems for no reason. Snubbers are also notorious for causing issues with fuel pressure.

Remove the snubber and see if there is any change. Test pressure in the same situations with a mechanical gauge and no snubber to verify pressures.

Without verification of pressures with a secondary gauge your still just guessing.

Hope you find something concrete soon. You have been at this for a bit.

Weeeellll, Jeepers. Real short, it was the sending unit on the gauge. :{ I did not have access to a mechanical gauge that I could use while driving... and the gauge I had was in Kilo-bar... not PSI.

However, the unit I have from VDO, is not an exact match to the sender I had. the resistance on the faulty POS Glow-Sheite had 10-130 Ohms... The VDO is 10-180 Ohms. The gauge shows 25 PSI at idle, and 15 PSI at WOT... still a pressure drop without ANY restriction before the pump, and a new filter... But at least it never reads '0'

This is the first and last try with an electronic gauge... I ordered the mechanical ISSPRO set from Geno's... along with a set of Bilstein's... Rancho shocks are also Junk...

After the game (Germany against Greece), I will try to write up the installation of the Draw-Straw...

 

[cerberusiam]

The 25 psi is plenty high for a VP-44, if you start having starting issues that could be the culprit. As long as you can maintain at least 10 psi under full load your VP-44 will be happy much longer.



The unfortunate truth about stepper motor gauges, they fail and there is no good reason why. Then again, I have had 2 mechaincals fail also for a variety of reasons. Just make sure the sending unit is not hard mounted to the engine and it will live a longer happier life.



Glad it turned out to be something simple instead +$2000 like our 01 cost us when neither my son or I could work on it. What can you do when it is 1000 miles away and needed back on the road.

 

[KrisKringle]

The 25 psi is plenty high for a VP-44, if you start having starting issues that could be the culprit. As long as you can maintain at least 10 psi under full load your VP-44 will be happy much longer.



The unfortunate truth about stepper motor gauges, they fail and there is no good reason why. Then again, I have had 2 mechaincals fail also for a variety of reasons. Just make sure the sending unit is not hard mounted to the engine and it will live a longer happier life.



Glad it turned out to be something simple instead +$2000 like our 01 cost us when neither my son or I could work on it. What can you do when it is 1000 miles away and needed back on the road.

I do not think it is actually 25 PSI... again, I do not have a gauge to compare to, and giving out 100 € + for one that will just sit around was not really in the plan. The VDO sender has a higher resistance rating than the old one, so I figure the gauge is reading high because of that, no that the pressure is too high. At least it never reads '0'

 

[cerberusiam]

It may not be, or it may be. It depends on how the range is correlated to the gauge. You were testing a bad sending unit so its probably not a good idea to rely on its readings.



When you get your manula setup then you can adjust if neccessary. Good luck.

 

[KrisKringle]

Friday the 13th...one to remember

Well... it seems I might actually have 'working Internet' long enough to post...



Short version: There is no 'short version. '



On the 14th, we were scheduled to leave for Holland. I had to wrap up a job-site, and then planned to fix my daughter's auto so she had something to drive while were were away... Oh, the Dodge was scheduled to go to the body-shop to get the dents and dings from the PO removed... yes, I could do it myself, by there was no time, and buying paint in Germany without a license is a real 'who you know' kind of thing, and then begging for time in a paint booth...



ANYWAY! 06. 30, I am leaving for the jobsite. About 6 km from home, the truck starts missing... only 750 km on the clock, (and yes, I still have not written up the Draw-Straw install, and sender install tips... ), but anyway, MAYBE the gauge is reading wrong... Oh, yeah, the pressure gauge is at '0'. With the truck lurching and bucking, I make it to the fuel station. After a quick 50€, the fuel gauge is over 1/2... start the truck up, good idle... Pressure gauge '0'. Wait, I need a cigarette.



OK, it is raining, and 12 degrees Celsius... ignoring all of horror stories about running the VP44 without pressure, I drove home. I knew I had two good Airtex / Carter Pumps, so I hoped that all of the two-stroke oil I used as an additive would help the VP to survive. So, Lurching and surging, I drove home... first I plugged my jumper cable onto the FASS DDRP... no pressure, only a 'hummm. ' 15 minutes later, I had the Carter pump installed, and I had pressure, and was on my way. FASS pumps are junk. I do not have the book in front of me, but I do not think it lasted 10K miles...



So that was a short as I could make it. I think I will order a Blue-chip VP44 and Raptor lift pump and send it to the base in Wiesbaden. I will install the Raptor pump and ISSPRO gauges, and keep the VP44 in stock...



That is as short as it gets.



What I did the rest of the day was put a new crank seal, clutch, fix the seized callipers, blown-out steering input shaft and a few other items on my daughter's Peugeot, by the time I was finished, it was 23. 00. At least my daughter had her auto, and we were able to go on Holiday...



(written from Texel, the Netherlands... where the internet is not so reliable... )