EGR/DPF Delete on '09 p4500 C&C

[KDoerr]

Ya my boost is around the 32 mark at full pull. But im now going to go of track and pick your brains here. Well here is a good one for you all I the other day got a code 405 Witch is EGR Position sensor A to low. I have the smaty JR 67. And I have no EGR/DPF stuff on it. but the truck runs good and no problems but for the engine light. Are any of you having this problem to?

 

[Wiredawg]

Do you have factory svc manual? You need to trouble shoot that code using it and you'll find the problem. Did you keep your EGR throttle motor plugged in per MADS instructions. That motor operates the EGR throttle.



Hit me back later if you don't have OEM manual and I'll look it up for you.



Ron

 

[mpaulson]

Ron,



I towed my fifthwheel into town this afternoon to dump the holding tanks at the city park and climbed a grade both ways. Under full load, full throttle, 2300 rpm, in fourth gear/direct, max boost was 30 psi.

Sounds like one of my folks stories where they had to walk 5 miles a day to school and back and it was uphill both ways. :-laf

 

[mpaulson]

Looking for some insight on boost levels. While towing I'm running in a consistent psi range of 25 to 28#. This is about the same if I'm in 5th or 6th gear at about 68mph/110kms. I've got the smarty jr. on towing setting and all default settings except the timing is up one notch. Timing doesn't change the boost in default either. My concern is, is this a safe boost level for the truck to run at constantly while towing?? Egt are in the 850 range, sensor in the manifold. If I use the edge juice instead, I'm at about 18# boost and 950-1000 degrees. I like the smarty for the lower egt's, but they seem to get this by the high boost levels compared to the Edge.

Any insight appreciated.

 

[Wiredawg]

Final Impression

Hi all,



I'm following up to give my final impression of performing EGR/DPF delete on 6. 7L trucks:



RECOMMENDATION: Unless you are having unresolved EGT, EGR or DPF problems, I do not recommend deleting the EGR/DPF. I do recommend the Mads Smarty 6. 7L as the engine does perform better, even with EGR/DPF on. With 25K miles, more than 70% was short trips, I never set a code nor loaded up the DPF. Note: The EGR/DPF and programming are different on the C&Cs than what's on the HDs. Mine was also clean idel certified.



RATIONALE: The labor is pretty rigorous, you may have problems like I did, you will void your warranty if any remaining, and you could be fined pretty heavily by the govt. Gains were marginal... about 1mpg and about 100' less EGTs.



I'm going to reinstall the EGR/DPF in the fall and will offer delete kits for significant savings.



Thanks everyone for your contributions and I hope this info helps you if you are considering deleting your EGR/DPF.



Take care, Ron

 

[mpaulson]

Boost is good to 38-40 on that compressor before you get inefficient. Drive pressure is the limiting factor, but it's hard to say what the limit is, because it's not the actual DP that is the problem, but the effect it has on cylinder pressure which is driven by DP/boost/timing.

I'm running Smarty Jr. on tow setting all defaults and while towing I'm running at 2300 rpm and average between 26 and 29 psi boost and 850-930 EGT temps and on hills will go to about 32 psi and 1100 max. The egt sending unit is in the manifold. In your opinion, or anyone elses, is this safe/normal?

I just had ARP studs and the gasket done on the truck a few weeks ago at 178,000kms. I have been concerned for a while that this constant boost level is high and have had no comparison to know if this is normal. When I ran the edge juice on the towing setting, I would be at about 20-22 psi and 1020-1100 egts for the same load and average.

What do you think?

 

[AH64ID]

Since you have studs I wouldn't be worried in the least.

 

[Cummins12V98]

My HO 2011 Dually hit 304 rwhp at May Madness this year. So mine only lost about 13% of factory flywheel rating. It is stock. Much better than I expected. BD Ford hit about 327 out of 400 after subtracting the 70 hp tuner. So my example says Cummins puts more to the ground percentage wise.

 

[HBarlow]

My HO 2011 Dually hit 304 rwhp at May Madness this year. So mine only lost about 13% of factory flywheel rating. It is stock. Much better than I expected. BD Ford hit about 327 out of 400 after subtracting the 70 hp tuner. So my example says Cummins puts more to the ground percentage wise.

I believe Furd engines make most of their power in the high priced television bs they broadcast. On the dyno or on the road with a trailer they aren't very powerful.

 

[HBarlow]

I'm running Smarty Jr. on tow setting all defaults and while towing I'm running at 2300 rpm and average between 26 and 29 psi boost and 850-930 EGT temps and on hills will go to about 32 psi and 1100 max. The egt sending unit is in the manifold. In your opinion, or anyone elses, is this safe/normal?
I just had ARP studs and the gasket done on the truck a few weeks ago at 178,000kms. I have been concerned for a while that this constant boost level is high and have had no comparison to know if this is normal. When I ran the edge juice on the towing setting, I would be at about 20-22 psi and 1020-1100 egts for the same load and average.
What do you think?

My factory stock unmolested '08 cab and chassis will show a maximum boost of about 30 psi and about 1300* with my 14k fifthwheel in tow. I have analog gauges but no magic black boxes. My truck has pulled this trailer and other trailers occasionally since new and has 118k troublefree miles on the odometer.

Your boost is about two pounds greater than mine but your egt is lower - perhaps gauge differences. Seems normal and safe to me. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

 

[Cummins12V98]

I agree Harvey, seems Ford just up's numbers just so they can stay #1 on paper. I was shocked how little power loss I had from the 350 flywheel number.

We talked about how my truck would do with the 3:42 gears and I am very satisfied at this time so I won't be changing gears. My 27k combined is getting 9. 5 average west coast towing and pulls the Grapevine at 55 at the slowest. I am sure I would say holy crap if I had the 4:10's but it out performs my 98 12v 300rwhp with a combined 20. 5k combined. It has 14k on the clock and mileage is getting better.

 

[Wiredawg]

Team,

I know have almost 39K on my 2009 C&C...Thought I would share some revised observations:

- I kept the mods...didn't see benefit of putting everything back on...I may chg my mind on this later on as emission enforcement and potential breakdowns on the trips out of state where trying to get modified truck serviced could be difficult.

- I'm now seeing about 2mpg gain combined driving at 13.7mpg. Combined is usually not more 60mph country roads with some stop and go. Interstate driving sees drop as aerodynamics and moving a 12Klb truck at 75 to 80 mph has huge impact.

- I'm seeing about 7 to 10 mpg towing, largely because my new Heartland Toy Hauler 5er is about a foot taller, about 5 feet longer and about 1,100 lbs heavier than the former Travel Supreme. Performance, stability and solid braking are 10 on a scale of 1 to 10. C&C brakes are awesome.

- Turbo exhaust brake started sticking infrequently about a year ago. It has stuck about three times, once towing and twice solo. I'm concerned as you get dead-pedal effect, killer EGTs and bellow of black smoke. I've tried getting turbo/exhaust brake hot and trying to oscillate engaging/disengaging it. Might have fixed it but not taking any chances. I purchased Cummins Turbo Cleaning Kit (made by Miller Tools) new $400, used Miller Turbo Cleaning Port Drilling Kit for $100 (new about $400), and Mopar Turbo Cleaning Fluid for $4/can three cans needed to complete the process. I had ankle replacement surgery 5 weeks ago and still have another week in bed. Physical therapy estimated 6 to 8 weeks, so it will be a while for me to complete this.

- FYI: I called my 5-Star to get a cost est for the turbo cleaning service. They quoted me $580, including drilling the cleaning port, based upon one they completed recently. That is a good price. I chose not to have them do it, not because I'm hiding anything, but because I have to remove the Smarty program for them to service, which will set multiple CEL error codes, complicating their service efforts. It's not just being your own warranty station, it's about being your own maintenance mechanic. So, I'm proceeding doing it myself.

- Emissions: The truck never has visible smoke, except when EB is malfunctioning. I rub my finger inside the tailpipe and see light coating of black. With all emissions on, I used to see very light grey coat.

I had ankle replacement surgery 5wks ago, still have another week and a half off my feet, and then another 6 to 8 weeks of physical therapy before I can work on this. Will let you know how it goes.

Take care and have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Ron

 

[RVTRKN]

Glad to hear its doing OK, didn't Dodge change over to the turbo that had the cleaning port as OEM equipment for 09MY and beyond?

 

[Wiredawg]

My truck was manufactured in Dec 2008 and seems to have gotten one of the older turbos without the port. The drilling and tapping procedure has critical tolerances, which is why the Miller specialty drilling and tapping guide is so expensive. It is also angled. Drill bitt has depth limiter stop and a the tapping procedure is limited to exactly 11 turns of the tap.

I have to admit Mads did a great job of engineering the Smarty programmer to manage the ECM. As I mentioned in a post after removing the EGR/DPF, that the tone of the truck is deep and powerful without any drone.

Ron