Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Fuel Additives

[Bob4x4]

Btw the p7100 is also oil lubed

 

[Tractorat]

Btw the p7100 is also oil lubed

Aha !!!! However, it still leaves the question. Does the vp44 (and the p7100) need and additive (stanodyne ?) for lubricity ? I would guess that the newer truck would not need anything since they were designed to use the new fuels.

 

[GAmes]

I appreciate the opportunity to give it a try. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. As far as mileage goes, it is a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. BTU content determines MPG. ULSD has about 1% fewer BTUs so with everything else being equal an engine that used to get 22 mpg on LSD will get 21. 8 on ULSD. 1% of 30 gallons would be 6. 6 miles. Does a pint of Stanadyne contain the BTUs to move an 8000 pound pickup 6. 6 miles, the same as 3/10 a gallon of diesel? Not likely. If you believe that a liquid mixed 240:1 will provide extra lubrication, and that your IP needs more than what is in normal #2, more power to you.

 

[Tractorat]

If you believe that a liquid mixed 240:1 will provide extra lubrication, and that your IP needs more than what is in normal #2, more power to you.

Well, I just dont know. It does and always has seemed silly to me. But I have heard from other sources other than pundits here on the tdr that it is needed for lub for the ip. I learned from experience long ago that no additive increases mpg or power. And although it seems like the engine seems quieter with stan, some times it doesnt.

I am not a mechanic not an engineer. My question is a question, not an opinion. (I didnt think anyone thought it increase mpg)

 

[Bob4x4]

On the Internet I always remind myself to consider the source. All of us have an agenda,I am not here to sell anything,just for entertainment and to help where I can.

 

[GAmes]

I am not a mechanic not an engineer. My question is a question, not an opinion.

I'm not an engineer either, and my mechanical resume is based on personnal experience. All I can say is if an additional lube were needed in the Cummins or any other diesel there would be hundreds of big rigs and diesel powered cars and pickups broken down beside the road every day, not to mention farmers tractors and construction heavy equipment.

 

[Bob4x4]

I'm not an engineer either, and my mechanical resume is based on personnal experience. All I can say is if an additional lube were needed in the Cummins or any other diesel there would be hundreds of big rigs and diesel powered cars and pickups broken down beside the road every day, not to mention farmers tractors and construction heavy equipment.

Very true,cummins has never advocated the need for fuel additives.
The very worst looking injectors I have changed out came out of a truck that had used an additive in every fill

 

[Tractorat]

I'm not an engineer either, and my mechanical resume is based on personnal experience. All I can say is if an additional lube were needed in the Cummins or any other diesel there would be hundreds of big rigs and diesel powered cars and pickups broken down beside the road every day, not to mention farmers tractors and construction heavy equipment.

Makes sense to me.

 

[HBarlow]

Common sense would suggest that the best proof of the need for or lack of need for fuel additives would be the high mileage Cummins engines like Gary's which have never used fuel additives except winter anti-gel.

Someone who claims he has used whatever brand of snake oil he prefers for 60k, 80k, or 100k miles and his engine runs great is not very convincing. Gary's with 800k+ miles before overhaul is convincing, at least for me it is.

For those who feel better when they add fuel additive to their truck's fuel, that is their right. I take Glucosamine/Chondroitin OTC meds everyday because it may help my old knees. I have no scientific proof that it does, but also no negative side effects. I choose to believe GC helps.

 

[Tractorat]

Harvey, I think your getting old. Youre repeating yourself.

(see your post 129 and 130)

 

[BIGNASTY]

Could be the GC I think thats one of the side affects.

Could be the GC I think thats one of the side affects.

Could be the GC I think thats one of the side affects.

I agree Harvey when I HAD KNEES I took the same stuff and the Doc said just expensive PEE!!! but my knees felt better also

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey, I think your getting old. Youre repeating yourself.

(see your post 129 and 130)

Thanks for telling me. Yes, I am no doubt getting old and I do sometimes repeat myself but in this case I attempted to make a minor edit to correct a detail and didn't realize it caused a repeat post. I'm not a fan of this new software.

 

[Tractorat]

I hate computers. Dont you ??

 

[Roostre]

New here, but I do have a small bit to add here. I've never believed in additives as at all. My previous diesel (HPCR) I bought at 65K and drove to about 100K, all the while keeping a fuel log. A local freight damage store was blowing out cases of Stanadyne Lubricity Formula for about $1/bottle so I decided to try it.

Overall fuel mileage did in fact go up *slightly*. The highest mileage tanks in my log all came when running the additive, but I also had poor mileage tanks with it. My conclusion was that it had a small gain that shifted the MPG to the right on a bell curve. For $1 per bottle it was a no-brainer, but I wouldn't pay full price for it.

 

[DeezelDood]

I backed out of this thread awhile ago but it sure has some legs. It is worth noting that ASTM D975 sets lubricity wear scar 520 on HFRR test. Fuel suppliers have to meet this before they can market the product. Bosch, however, recommends a wear scar max 460. Their research shows that running with ULSD over this will lead to mechanical damage. Additionally, they recommend "first fill" on new engine has a max 400 wear scar. Biodiesel is the best lubricity improver out there, which is why I run 2% blend. Cost premium is minimal except it is hard to find retailers who can supply a product that meets industry standard. I would not use home brews on a CR engine. It is my understanding that Stanadyne PF (8 oz per 30 gallons) meets the Bosch lubricity standard. Running B2 I don't need that but the additive is approved for blends up to B20. I run Stanadyne PF for the other improvements it offers:Cetane boost, water removal, anti gel etc. The fact that most engine shops market this product, and sell a lot of it at $7/pint, is something to consider. I am skeptical of the mileage improvement claims and I have not been able to verify them. That is not why I use the product. I use it because I believe the additive improves fuel quality, which has long term benefits in engine performance (ignition quality) that perhaps can not be measured but should extend engine life. For $3. 50 a fill up it makes me feel better.

 

[fest3er]

Lubricity enhancement alone will not improve fuel economy; it is neither designed to nor expected to. But it will reduce wear in the fuel system.

Cetane boost will improve fuel economy because it increases the ignitability of fuel. Or in other words, it (1) causes the fuel to ignite sooner (similar to advancing injection timing) and (2) causes the fuel to burn more rapidly (increasing cylinder pressure where it can be better converted to mechanical energy. The result is less smoke (less wasted fuel) and more power (less fuel used per unit time).

(Remember, octane boost decreases the burnability of gasoline, thus reducing detonation and allowing higher compression ratios. Cetane boost increases the burnability of diesel fuel. )

The bottom of the P-pump is lubed by engine oil. But there are still significant parts of the fuel system that are lubed by #2 oil; this is why lubricity is important. All lubricity enhancers are not made the same; this is where test results proving the quality of the enhancer are worth investigating. Some swear by Stanadyne; others by Amsoil. Both companies work hard to produce very high quality products.

Whether or not to use cetane and/or lubricity enhancers remains a personal decision.

 

[fest3er]

Lubricity enhancement alone will not improve fuel economy; it is neither designed to nor expected to. But it will reduce wear in the fuel system.



Cetane boost will improve fuel economy because it increases the ignitability of fuel. Or in other words, it (1) causes the fuel to ignite sooner (similar to advancing injection timing) and (2) causes the fuel to burn more rapidly (increasing cylinder pressure where it can be better converted to mechanical energy. The result is less smoke (less wasted fuel) and more power (less fuel used per unit time).



(Remember, octane boost decreases the burnability of gasoline, thus reducing detonation and allowing higher compression ratios. Cetane boost increases the burnability of diesel fuel. )



The bottom of the P-pump is lubed by engine oil. But there are still significant parts of the fuel system that are lubed by #2 oil; this is why lubricity is important. All lubricity enhancers are not made the same; this is where test results proving the quality of the enhancer are worth investigating. Some swear by Stanadyne; others by Amsoil. Both companies work hard to produce very high quality products.



Whether or not to use cetane and/or lubricity enhancers remains a personal decision.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Its a personal decision KIND OF LIKE RIDEIN BAREBACK ON YOUR FIRST DATE?

 

[Bob4x4]

fest3er, I have used the amsoil cetane boost additive. It did add a bit of mileage but at the time I tried it not enough to pay for it self. Not sure how the math would work out now since the diesel price keeps climbing.

 

[LNaugle]

Btw the p7100 is also oil lubed

WHEW! Thanks! Cummins, Cummins,Cummins. I say, what does Bosch say? Most anything can bennifit from extra lube!