Average MPG

[lrtbird02]

I am the new owner of a 2008 Ram 2500 6. 7, the overhead readout is showing 11. 7 mpg avg. The truck is all stock(exhaust,intake,computer chip,etc. ) but the tires are 285/70/17 and originally came with 245/75/17, is this a false reading, and if so how do I reset it short of buying a tuner. I have never owned a diesel let alone a Dodge before so I am ignorant of the lingo and am learning, Thanks

 

[firemansdiesel]

Yes your mileage will be off a little. The 245/75's are 31. 7" -/+ and the 285's are 32. 9 -/+ in size. The dealer can reprogram your ABS to the correct size with 285's. . That's the biggest they can do with the MY2006 to present truck years. There will be a labor charge to perform the flash though.

 

[lrtbird02]

Ok that being said, everyone says I need to install cold air intake, computer tuner, 4"-5" exhaust from turbo back, and then I will see much better MPG. My concern is cost up front and State inspections in the future. I live in a average size town about 80 miles east of Dallas Tx. so emissions are not being cracked down on as of yet, so any suggestions will be welcome. Thanks

 

[NIsaacs]

You need to do the math first, the overhead can be way off. Also the speedometer might have been recalibrated, if not then take that into account when you do do the math.



Nick

 

[HBarlow]

Ok that being said, everyone says I need to install cold air intake, computer tuner, 4"-5" exhaust from turbo back, and then I will see much better MPG. My concern is cost up front and State inspections in the future. I live in a average size town about 80 miles east of Dallas Tx. so emissions are not being cracked down on as of yet, so any suggestions will be welcome. Thanks

Irtbird,

Welcome to TDR and congratulations on your truck. You've purchased the best light truck sold in America and found the best owner's website and group.

One of the first things you'll need to learn and understand is that many truck owners cannot resist the temptation to exaggerate their fuel mileage claims. Don't assume anything is wrong with your truck because your actual fuel mileage is less than their claims.

The second thing you should learn is that most of the advice you're going to receive about all the incredible gains to be had in acceleration, towing power, and fuel economy is ill-informed at best and possibly worse.

Any slight change you may make to the intake air system or exhaust system of your truck is likely to set a code and show a check engine light on your dash. Either will also leave a telltale code in the ECM which will void any remaining engine warranty.

You are wise to be concerned about EPA driven emission testing, even out around Hopkins County. It is possible that future EPA emission checks could become sufficiently sophisticated to detect modifications with an underdash plug as well. I'm not yet saying this will happen, only that it could.

Unless your goal is horsepower in excess of 450 hp no aftermarket equipment changes to intake system or exhaust will be noticeable except in your empty wallet. No changes you might make will increase power, fuel economy, or sound but will make you subject to $20,000 fines from the EPA.

Even selling a modified truck makes the seller subject to those fines. A TDR member purchased a truck similar to yours with all the emissions equipment deleted about a year ago. Shortly after he bought it a CEL light came on and a local dealer could not solve his problems. When he realized he had bought a deleted truck he reported here that he forced the seller to take it back and refund his purchase money. The law was on his side.

My advice is to spend months reading current and past threads in this forum and think carefully before taking your first step down the path of engine modification on your truck.

The TDR is the absolute best source on the web for accurate information about the Dodge Ram platform and the Cummins engine. One of the things you will soon recognize is that the average age and experience level of TDR is greater than some of the other copy cat websites. Depending on your own perspective that may be a positive thing or a negative. There is possibly more youthful enthusiasm for performance modifications on some other sites. Here there are many of those folks, many of whom are probably expert in their knowledge. There are also some old-timers like myself who may annoy you by telling you the cold hard facts of life. I'm obviously one of the latter type. The best answers are here.

You are free to follow any advice you will receive here.

 

[PFranzese]

Whats your driving cycle like? That can impact your mpg.

I drive a mix of highway and back road, 60/40% split and I average 16 in the winter and 17-18 in the summer. Those are hand calculated numbers since the overhead is usually 1-2 mpg higher. My truck is stock as well, the only thing I have added is extra fuel filtration.

It seems that the option to delete emissions equipment is not possible right now since the top sellers have removed the programmers from their web sites with this EPA crackdown.

Best of luck with the truck, they are fun.

 

[lrtbird02]

Thank you, this sounds like good advice and I will do my research.

Irtbird,



Welcome to TDR and congratulations on your truck. You've purchased the best light truck sold in America and found the best owner's website and group.



One of the first things you'll need to learn and understand is that many truck owners cannot resist the temptation to exaggerate their fuel mileage claims. Don't assume anything is wrong with your truck because your actual fuel mileage is less than their claims.



The second thing you should learn is that most of the advice you're going to receive about all the incredible gains to be had in acceleration, towing power, and fuel economy is ill-informed at best and possibly worse.



Any slight change you may make to the intake air system or exhaust system of your truck is likely to set a code and show a check engine light on your dash. Either will also leave a telltale code in the ECM which will void any remaining engine warranty.



You are wise to be concerned about EPA driven emission testing, even out around Hopkins County. It is possible that future EPA emission checks could become sufficiently sophisticated to detect modifications with an underdash plug as well. I'm not yet saying this will happen, only that it could.



Unless your goal is horsepower in excess of 450 hp no aftermarket equipment changes to intake system or exhaust will be noticeable except in your empty wallet. No changes you might make will increase power, fuel economy, or sound but will make you subject to $20,000 fines from the increasingly bold and heavy-handed Economic Punishment Agency.



Nobama has just been reelected. He fully supports the wide path of destruction the EPA plans to rip through anything related to "evil" crude oil, cars, trucks, or automotive performance industries. Expect greater EPA enforcement, even in your area of east Texas. EPA has recently hammered EDGE Products with a $500 million fine and more is yet to come. Will they also go after consumers of those products? It is sadly the future of America.



Even selling a modified truck makes the seller subject to those fines. A TDR member purchased a truck similar to yours with all the emissions equipment deleted about a year ago. Shortly after he bought it a CEL light came on and a local dealer could not solve his problems. When he realized he had bought a deleted truck he reported here that he forced the seller to take it back and refund his purchase money. The law was on his side.



My advice is to spend months reading current and past threads in this forum and think carefully before taking your first step down the path of engine modification on your truck.



The TDR is the absolute best source on the web for accurate information about the Dodge Ram platform and the Cummins engine. One of the things you will soon recognize is that the average age and experience level of TDR is greater than some of the other copy cat websites. Depending on your own perspective that may be a positive thing or a negative. There is possibly more youthful enthusiasm for performance modifications on some other sites. Here there are many of those folks, many of whom are probably expert in their knowledge. There are also some old-timers like myself who may annoy you by telling you the cold hard facts of life. I'm obviously one of the latter type. The best answers are here.



You are free to follow any advice you will receive here. [/QUOTE] Thanks

 

[MChrist]

If I was in your situation, I would go to the dealer, have them check to see if the truck has the most current "flash" which is an electronic update for your truck's computer. While there, ask to recalibrate for your tire size if that is the size you plan on keeping. If everything checks out fine, I wouldn't bother with intake, exhaust, or tuner if your goal is to increase mpg.
Lots of people claim better mpg with all the deletes, but I've only ever heard "claims" with no hard evidence to back it up. I do remember there was an article in the TDR where deletes were done with a newer truck along with accurate before/after mpg readings, and if there was any gain at all, it was maybe . 5 mpg. I would have to read it again to be sure, but it wasn't much and now his truck is "illegal".
Make sure your fuel filter is clean, install new factory air cleaner and take your new truck on a trip. Top off fuel tank before you go, reset trip meter, and top off again at the same pump if possible. Divide miles driven by gallons used and there you have it. It's very simple.
You didn't mention what rear gears you have or if you have an automatic or manual trans. Those things will make a difference. At 65 mph average highway speed, you will probably get anywhere from 16-19.
Good luck, and there are lots of people here that can point you in the right direction if you need help.

 

[rscurtis]

Harvey, I believe the fine was $500,000, not 500 million. I would also advise the OP to leave the truck alone. If you want good mileage, find an older truck like mine.

 

[Jim W]

If I was in your situation, I would go to the dealer, have them check to see if the truck has the most current "flash" which is an electronic update for your truck's computer. While there, ask to recalibrate for your tire size if that is the size you plan on keeping. If everything checks out fine, I wouldn't bother with intake, exhaust, or tuner if your goal is to increase mpg.
Lots of people claim better mpg with all the deletes, but I've only ever heard "claims" with no hard evidence to back it up. I do remember there was an article in the TDR where deletes were done with a newer truck along with accurate before/after mpg readings, and if there was any gain at all, it was maybe . 5 mpg. I would have to read it again to be sure, but it wasn't much and now his truck is "illegal".
Make sure your fuel filter is clean, install new factory air cleaner and take your new truck on a trip. Top off fuel tank before you go, reset trip meter, and top off again at the same pump if possible. Divide miles driven by gallons used and there you have it. It's very simple.
You didn't mention what rear gears you have or if you have an automatic or manual trans. Those things will make a difference. At 65 mph average highway speed, you will probably get anywhere from 16-19.
Good luck, and there are lots of people here that can point you in the right direction if you need help.

MChrist,
I have improved my fuel mileage over stock by doing the deletes to my truck. I have over 5 years of documented data to back this up. I keep an excel spread sheet for each year of operation with mileage and fuel added plus notes as to when I was towing my 5er or not. I have seen a couple of times 18 to 20 mpg on the highway without the 5er, but most of the time I run between 13 and 15 MPGs. I note when I use winter fuel or travel in the country or city driving. My yearly average for the first year of operation was 11. 59 MPG stock. The second year average was 13. 11MPG; the third year average was 14. 17 MPG; the fourth year average was 13. 83 MPG and the fifth year average was 13. 04 MPG. The last two year averages are down because I am driving a VW TDI most of the time now and use the truck to pull the 5er and carry heavy loads; like 2S wood such as oak and walnut boards.
For deletes see my sig.
Jim W.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey, I believe the fine was $500,000, not 500 million. I would also advise the OP to leave the truck alone. If you want good mileage, find an older truck like mine.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. Both figures were so large the numbers of zeroes added on the end didn't seem to matter much.

 

[HBarlow]

MChrist,
I have improved my fuel mileage over stock by doing the deletes to my truck. I have over 5 years of documented data to back this up. I keep an excel spread sheet for each year of operation with mileage and fuel added plus notes as to when I was towing my 5er or not. I have seen a couple of times 18 to 20 mpg on the highway without the 5er, but most of the time I run between 13 and 15 MPGs. I note when I use winter fuel or travel in the country or city driving. My yearly average for the first year of operation was 11. 59 MPG stock. The second year average was 13. 11MPG; the third year average was 14. 17 MPG; the fourth year average was 13. 83 MPG and the fifth year average was 13. 04 MPG. The last two year averages are down because I am driving a VW TDI most of the time now and use the truck to pull the 5er and carry heavy loads; like 2S wood such as oak and walnut boards.
For deletes see my sig.
Jim W.

Jim,

You didn't indicate the point in your mileage records when the deletes were done or how much you claim you gained by deleting.

I have to ask . . . in light of the recent attack on Edge Products and the likelihood of much more to come, how many miles per gallon of added fuel economy gain will be required to cover the cost of a potential EPA or state version of epa inspection failure and resulting fine?



MChrist,

Your memory of the TDR article matches my own memory.

I also once had a telephone conversation with a well known member of TDR who reported his knowledge of a deleted ISB6. 7 truck which produced zero fuel economy gain.

 

[mfurrh55]

IRt, I have a 07 5. 9, Bought it new march o7, The truck was getting a pretty good 17-18 mpg, I added a bullydog tuner ,got rid of the factory exhaust,put bigger aftermarket muffler, diff. air filter, Now i get a whopping 16 mpg. Go Figure, I do know that i can go to Utah, and everytime i go, when i hit Colorado,my mileage does go up 1-2 mpg, thought it might be the fuel, but i took my own fuel from home and it still did better, must be the altitude or the cooler climate, But if i had mine to do over again, I would probably leave it stock, MO, Monte

 

[Prairie Dog]

I installed 285's in place of the 265's and the speedo difference is pretty big ~ about 7mph when I checked it against GPS. In your case it will be even greater soyou really can't begin to believe your overhead or speedo.

 

[GCP]

Bird, you have discovered a great asset to every Dodge Cummins owner, welcome to TDR!

It would be wise to have you ECM programmed with the current tire size (if you plan on retaining them). After doing so you'll have a better idea of your current average MPG, but remember nothing beats doing the math yourself.

If you gave us a little bit more information we could be of more service to you. Drive cycles? Payload weight? Miles? And so forth...

That said, your truck is extremely capable in its stock form. Expensive modification, more often than not, provide very little gain when compared to their cost. Check out TDR issue 78. There is lots of information regarding some of the risks of "performance" modifications to the 6. 7L.

GCP

 

[Jim W]

Jim,

You didn't indicate the point in your mileage records when the deletes were done or how much you claim you gained by deleting.

I have to ask . . . in light of the recent attack on Edge Products and the likelihood of much more to come, how many miles per gallon of added fuel economy gain will be required to cover the cost of a potential EPA or state version of epa inspection failure and resulting fine?



MChrist,

Your memory of the TDR article matches my own memory.

I also once had a telephone conversation with a well known member of TDR who reported his knowledge of a deleted ISB6. 7 truck which produced zero fuel economy gain.

Harvey,
I did my deletes about one year after I bought the truck. This way I would have a base line to judge against and after my third emission equipment issue with the truck. I have had the following CEL's and TSB's done with in the first year of ownership P061A and P2262; TSB 11-001-08 and 11-002-08. The turbo was drilled and cleaned at that time.

Now as far as percentages of improvement they range from a low of 13% to a high of 22%, if I figured correctly.

Now as far as testing this is a non issue. If I am every required to do emission testing in the future I will just reinstall the deleted equipment. This is stored in the garage attic wrapped up and in boxes waiting to be reinstalled; if I every sell the truck or the state requires emission testing.

Jim W.

 

[GCP]

I have had the following CEL’s and TSB’s done with in the first year of ownership P061A and P2262; TSB 11-001-08 and 11-002-08.

Have you had any CELs since you deleted the emissions equipment? And, out of curiosity, what was the cost (ballpark) of the modifications?



Thanks,



GCP

 

[RDeFayette]

Welcome to the TDR.

Like everyone said before,

1) get the ABS/speedo recalibrated for the tire size to get an accurate odo/speedo reading.

2) always hand calc your MPG the overhead has a bad reputation (lie-o-meter!) you can make it hit 65+ mpg if you know how.

3) high speed/high engine speed KILLS mileage. anything over 65ish (mph) uses more power to push/move air. (aerodynamics) engine speeds over 19-20k rpm are mileage killers. Most of us on here (IMO) that are looking for MPG drive by RPM's not MPH.

Enjoy. and again welcome!

 

[MChrist]

I found the TDR issue I mentioned earlier. TDR issue 72 from May 2011. Pages 32-37. Robert Patton reported on a deleted and programmed 6. 7 and found that the towing mpg only increased from 10. 0 to 10. 5 after deletes. This equated to roughly $250 over 100,000 miles at $4. 00/gallon prices.
That's what the man says... but remember, "your mileage may vary!"
With all that said, if your truck is out of warranty and you aren't worried about the "emission police" and you still want to delete the DPF, install EGR block-off plates and install a tuner, I would simply recommend keeping the exhaust parts around in case you needed to reinstall it. If you had to buy that stuff, plan on thousands of $$$.

 

[Jim W]

Have you had any CELs since you deleted the emissions equipment? And, out of curiosity, what was the cost (ballpark) of the modifications?

Thanks,

GCP

GCP,
No; I have been trouble free since I deleted and I would do it again on my 08. Now if I had a 2013 truck I would not delete the truck. I think with anything new there are teething pains and the 07. 5 and early 08's trucks had them. Since then the programming for the emission system has been change to agree with the majority of the driving style that people are doing.
As far as cost to me the Smarty S67 was $690 and the 5” Turbo back muffler system from MBRP was $637. This is for a 5. 9L Crew Cab Long Bed truck which will fit a 6. 7L Mega Cab perfectly. The EGR block off plates for the EGR was around $50, the EGR cooler is still on the truck. This helps keep the truck warmer in the winter, I know guys who have deleted the cooler and the truck will run cooler then with it on. These are 2008 dollars by the way.
Another point I like to make is the Smarty S67 or JR will work with either being deleted or not being deleted. The only difference is the software that you download to install on the Smarty so you are not out any money on a programmer.
Jim W.