Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Building a Bolt Action

[HHhuntitall]

According to this article, the Paramount is 1. 375 and 1. 5 OD... . http://yarchive.net/gun/rifle/paramount_action.html

Remington is nominal 1. 35, so if you have the smaller action, just order some Weaver front bases and redrill them to fit your reciever.....



I also found this site I haven't seen before.....



http://www.hps-tr.com/prices.asp?category=30

 

[GHarman]

HHhuntitall,

Yep, Trouble is when ya replace kitchen counter tops, the job SNOWBALLS#@$%!! I'm sure you understand that, as you have indicated, above!

I believe the scope bases are doable. Its already set up with Irons. A Warner Left handed long range sight and base.

The barrel would get a slip on front sight base with a Mid Thompkins front and interchangeable inserts if I wanted to shoot prone from a sling. That position really tears me up these days!

Oh Well, Get up, make sure nothing is broke, grab yer gear and keep moving!

I'll email ya later. Gotta get off my butt and get some things done around here!

A ride on old "killer" would loosen me up fer sure. Course, you know I am no Cowboy:-laf!

GregH



PS, A thought came to me!

My wet brass cleanup is always completed with a few hours in the oven to dry.

I have shot brass up to 10X (neck sized) and have not lost any!!!!!

The temperature I use in right a 200*F plus or minus. For up to 3 hours (I forgot them). What do ya think on that one?

 

[GHarman]

HH,
I have the 1. 5" receiver! Thanks for the link. Bart Bobbitt did a writeup when OK Weber first started selling them.
Yep, thats the article in yer first link!
GregH

 

[BIGNASTY]

AHhhhhhhhhhhh you guy's with all that TECHNIACAL TALK!!!! gives a fell-er a pain in the nog-in, YOU CAN BET these fellers twurnt talking about no head space except from the Kentucky Klear that they drunk the nite before :-laf

 

[HHhuntitall]

HHhuntitall,

Yep, Trouble is when ya replace kitchen counter tops, the job SNOWBALLS#@$%!! I'm sure you understand that, as you have indicated, above!

I believe the scope bases are doable. Its already set up with Irons. A Warner Left handed long range sight and base.

The barrel would get a slip on front sight base with a Mid Thompkins front and interchangeable inserts if I wanted to shoot prone from a sling. That position really tears me up these days!

Oh Well, Get up, make sure nothing is broke, grab yer gear and keep moving!

I'll email ya later. Gotta get off my butt and get some things done around here!

A ride on old "killer" would loosen me up fer sure. Course, you know I am no Cowboy:-laf!

GregH

Ol' Killer?!? Nawww, we just got Dozer, Codiene, and Elroy..... Take yer pick!! :-laf



Elroy has a nice trot, but you never know when he'll decide it's time for you to get off!!!! (SOB finally found a new home this spring..... )



Codiene? Well, that's what you need to recover the next day... . He'd loosen you up!! Perhaps, even your bowels!!! (real pleasure to rope off of, though. Will flip a full grown bull upside down, if the rope don't break!!!)



Dozer? Well, he'll make everyone think you're a nudist... . Dirty booger will follow a cow ANYWHERE!! I lose a shirt every third time I ride the good prick!! But you'd better hang on if a cow turns back into the brush, 'cause he's gonna go with 'er!!! #@$%! Dad says it's easy to follow us when we're headin' rough cattle... . just follow the blue shirt pieces hangin' in the trees!!!

PS, A thought came to me!

My wet brass cleanup is always completed with a few hours in the oven to dry.

I have shot brass up to 10X (neck sized) and have not lost any!!!!!

The temperature I use in right a 200*F plus or minus. For up to 3 hours (I forgot them). What do ya think on that one?

Hey! Is that hot enough to anneal the brass?!?? I do that, but usually lose the primer pockets..... I may need to re-do it when I switch the brass off to my hunting rifle.....

AHhhhhhhhhhhh you guy's with all that TECHNIACAL TALK!!!! gives a fell-er a pain in the nog-in, YOU CAN BET these fellers twurnt talking about no head space except from the Kentucky Klear that they drunk the nite before :-laf

I bet they slept good!!! Blind as a bat with a single shot muzzle stuffer... ... :-laf

 

[GHarman]

HH,

I kinda figgered the Horses names were give fer a reason:-laf!

My Mule came with her name given. It was kinda funny, cause she had the same name and personality that the Girl was blessed with, that I was dating at that time.

Kinda like a "heads up from above"!

The temperature/time is is higher for an anneal. However I do wonder if it does "relax the stresses" without an anneal?????

I am going to replace that batch of brass as it is 19 years old, this year!

By the time I get another 100 rounds formed up, the barrel could be toast! There is no erosion that I can see with a bore mirror, from the chamber end.

But the lands are rounded off. It still shoots better than one would expect to look at it!



BIG!

Them Boys just swallered some "group tightener" and will "sleep when they're dead"!

You wouldnt be tryin to pull my leg, complainin about "tech talk"?

The feller that rebuilds machinery, swaps out motors, does mechanic work on the family machinery and maintains his off grid infrastructure???!

On one leg! BTW!

You and HH could teach the folks on TDR a whole bunch about "self Sufficiency"!

GregH

 

[BIGNASTY]

HH

I bet they slept good!!! Blind as a bat with a single shot muzzle stuffer... ...



I did pretty good this year with the smoke pole pretty happy the way it turned out FIL brags about it more than I do He's wanting to put a bow in my arsenal but just dont like to bleed animals like that makes the meat taste funny to me like to put them out where they stand like a light switch.



Gman

Not today I cant show anyone anything im pretty used up after last night, My Pard has to prove he is still the best man and Damned if that was going to happen we declared it a draw when we went to the can and walked in the wrong one It didnt seem WRONG TO US!!!! but them gals sure got all up at us :-laf:-laf:-laf

 

[BIGNASTY]

GHarman

Been pl-inking with my hand cannons lately thinking about going with this next time out. That load data is out of a book, mine seems to like 51. 5 gr of same H4895 it chronographs at 2010 fps out of a 15" tube... ... . SORRY FOR JACKING YOUR TALK HERE.



200gr FP 52. 0 gr H4895 2,147 fps

 

[GHarman]

BIG,

I dont mind if CBlack doesnt mind!

Its his thread!

A Co-worker had a . 375 JDJ and it is STOUT!

Built on a Contender frame. Straight from J. D. Jones!

Hand Cannons are a HOOT!

Love to have a Single Shot Rifle in a similar chambering!

Probably be better off with the rifle using the . 348 Case necked to . 375. MORE POWER!!!!:-laf

GregH

 

[Gunny]

Gunny,

I was in the Corps, also. Back in 1966-1970.

Corporal. 2532 MOS. 'Course we are all 0311's.

Did two tours in 'Nam, from Feb, 1967- June, 1969.

I'm sure you have seen your share of gettin' shot at from multiple theaters, during your Career!

Thanks, from the bottom of my Heart!

Hopefully you didnt get wounded and if so, you have healed in Body, Mind and Spirit!

I considered making a Career of the Corps, but could not get the training and duty station necessary.

That was when the Corps was near 750,000 Marines, with to many extra warm bodies

for the Vietnam Conflict. I don't remember the demographics, but there were near as many Draftees as Enlisted.



Yea Greg I was there too. Never can tell we may have just chewed some of the same dirt. I was up in I Corps at a place just a little west and north of Da Nang, Camp Evans. My MOS was 8654 and we were running penetration missions North. Bad time for every one that spent any time there, but if you are real honest with your self "We were never so much alive as we were then" sure as hell glad that one is over.







Building an accurate and practical hunting rifle, for the terrain, has been one of my challenges.

That is why most of my tooling is . 30 caliber. My most recent builds include a . 308 (M-40 clone), . 30/06 and a . 30/338 heavy barreled rifles for kill switch shots on game as well as punching holes in paper. I am also a big fan of he mighty . 45/70Oo. :-laf!( Did you know that the GI load for the . 45/70/500 will shoot further than the GI . 30 M-2! 3400 yards vs 3200 yards. )



I also am a big Fan of the 45/70 and more so of the 45/90. I shoot BPCRS ( Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Silhouette ) for sevreal years and competitied with both of those cartridges. My hunting days are over sadly but I'm still shooting, just can't walk real well anymore because of my miss spent youth in the Corps.



BIGNASTY and HHhuntitall are good folks to get to know on TDR! CBlack I am getting to know, as well as a few others. With the political climate as it is, there is not much shooting related conversation going on, for concern of being noticed and placed under surveillence.

GregH

I look forward to having a conversation with all of them from time to time. Today Saturday is a bit of a boring day around here, can't go to the range as there are to many Pilgrams out there and I'm not to too sure but they may just shoot back! No matches this weekend and all of my reloading is done for next weekend. Its raining Cats and Dawgs anyway so it a computer day I guess. I'm not worried about any surveillance, if those cats want this wore out old, shot up Marine they know where I'm at...



Roland

 

[Gunny]

Well that didn't work out to well. Tried to respond to remarks that were in quotes and it did what it wanted to. Well no one ever said Marines were siupposed to be smart, just willing.

Roland

 

[Gunny]

Gunny, welcome. Glad to have you. From your posts, you sound well versed, and with that much experience in the Corp, I'm sure you've had plenty of "trigger-time. " I've shot the 6. 5x284 many years, as well as the . 284 Win. The recent bullet developements in . 284 are what make me want to use it, as it's ballistics become far superior at 1,000yds. I like the 180gr Bergers, but I also use the Bob Cerrera? 189gr. An excellent bullet. Dad has much more experience with them, but I've had good luck, so far. I haven't used them in competition, yet, but so far in practice, they've proven to buck the wind much better. Now that the classes are open to . 338, I'm looking at the 300gr Hybrid Berger... ... either in a . 338 Lapua or . 338 Win mag... ... Even my Dad is looking at the Win Mag after reading Bryan Litz new book and researching the bullet coeffecients..... Doping the wind is certainly very important, but if you had more room for error, why not take it? (IF you can take the recoil!! )

HHhuntitall , The 180 Grain Berger is a very good bullet. I am somewhat alone in my dealings with the 284 Winchester, as many folks are having good luck with it. It just doesn't do anything for me personally I guess. Your idea about the 300 grn Berger is sound no doubt about it. However I believe the recoil if shoot for a 3 relay 60 shot match is going to eat you alive, no matter who you are or how recoil insensitive you think you are. As an example I am a big man 6'3" and I weigh to much because it's winter and I set on my butt too much in the winter eating potato chips. I certainly do not consider myself recoil sensitive, however on match days with real twitchy and gusty winds I leave the 6. 5X47L in the case and shoot usually a 6. 5X284 or another cartridge I am just starting to play around with the 6. 5-06. At the end of the day after breaking 60 shots for record and another 30 sighters those two suckers have me wore out. I can only imagine doing that with the 338 Lapua or Win Mag. It sure ought to shoot closer to the wind though.

As for your 6. 5x284, I find it strange you don't have better barrel life..... I usually get 1500+ rounds of Match accuracy out of mine... . which makes me ask what barrels you use?

I gotta tell you I have shot out two barrels in the 6. 5x284 one was a Krieger and the other was a Brux. Those two barrels were tack drivers both of them. With the Krieger I shot my first clean at 1,000 yds a 200-11x. The Brux was also a very accurate barrel. The Krieger lasted 848 Rounds exactly ( I keep a log of every shot fired in each barrel) the Brux went 912 rounds. In both cases accuracy was falling off pretty bad when I had them scoped the fire cracking and erosion was very bad.

The . 223 round is not to be overlooked..... I built one for a friend that holds the midrange(600) civilian NRA record, using 80gr Bergers. It's a great practice round, and certainly can be helpful to train for reading the wind!!! It's not really viable at 1,000, but it can be competitive on calm days. A long throat and tight neck are essential, as you know... . I've got a 6BR I built that's proving to be a great mid-range rifle, as well. It shot several clean targets at the New Mexico Regionals last year, using the 115grDTAC bullets... . Again, not a record maker at 1,000, but certainly competitive.

I agree with you complettly on both the 223 and the 6br. I have sevreal barrels chambered in 6BR it is my Go To cartridge for mid range Benchrest and F-Class Mid Range. I had gone to a 6MM Dasher for a lot of my shooting at mid range, however after looking at the results the 6br was winning just as many of those "Fake Wood Trophys" as was the dasher. The 223 is not to shabby either and you are right it will teach you about the wind.



Roland

 

[HHhuntitall]

Well that didn't work out to well. Tried to respond to remarks that were in quotes and it did what it wanted to. Well no one ever said Marines were siupposed to be smart, just willing.



Roland

Theirs not to make reply,

Theirs not to reason why,

Theirs but to do and die:

Into the valley of Death

Rode the six hundred



It takes all kinds to keep a free country free. I'm the first generation in over 1500 years of my family not to enlist or be born into knighthood or servitude... ... . Have many relatives who died in every major conflict for United Kingdom and United states since we can trace it back to about 750s, where Egbert of Wessex ruled Northern England..... King Edward's conflict with the Danes, the French Indian wars, both sides of the American Revolution and Civil War, the Indian wars(including a book on a cousin killed at The Little Big Horn!!), both world wars, the Banana Wars, Korea, Vietnam... ... None that we know of in this century. I decided I wanted to be a farmer after getting shot at a few times..... I grow the food that keeps the military moving, and that's enough for me..... I live in peace, and that's more than I deserve.

 

[BIGNASTY]

I look forward to having a conversation with all of them from time to time. Today Saturday is a bit of a boring day around here, can't go to the range as there are to many Pilgrams out there and I'm not to too sure but they may just shoot back! No matches this weekend and all of my reloading is done for next weekend. Its raining Cats and Dawgs anyway so it a computer day I guess. I'm not worried about any surveillance, if those cats want this wore out old, shot up Marine they know where I'm at...



Roland

Gunny



I know exactly what you mean I hate having to go to the shooting range all those folks that dont know what its like to have DISIPLINE on the range with a FOOT being DROVE!!!!! up your KIESTER if you do one thing that the range-master doesn't care for. This is the reason I HAVE MY OWN RANGE out my backdoor ( not at the moment its covered with about 4ft of snow) I have a shooting bench. For now im forced to use the deck off our house using the deck railing as a rest. One other problem with my shooting range is that sometimes I have to call it off because some of the local young folks play at the end of the range at the 600 yard marker HERE I WILL SHOW YOU THEM even thou I HAVE TO STOP shooting watching the young folks play is OK!!!!!!!:-laf I still have to watch for the range-master the one at this range wears the pants in the family and cooks the food when she says TIME OUT I LISTEN I many have been in the Air Force BUT IM NOT STUPID!!!!!!!:-laf

 

[BIGNASTY]

Theirs not to make reply,

Theirs not to reason why,

Theirs but to do and die:

Into the valley of Death

Rode the six hundred



It takes all kinds to keep a free country free. I'm the first generation in over 1500 years of my family not to enlist or be born into knighthood or servitude... ... . Have many relatives who died in every major conflict for United Kingdom and United states since we can trace it back to about 750s, where Egbert of Wessex ruled Northern England..... King Edward's conflict with the Danes, the French Indian wars, both sides of the American Revolution and Civil War, the Indian wars(including a book on a cousin killed at The Little Big Horn!!), both world wars, the Banana Wars, Korea, Vietnam... ... None that we know of in this century. I decided I wanted to be a farmer after getting shot at a few times..... I grow the food that keeps the military moving, and that's enough for me..... I live in peace, and that's more than I deserve.

HH

Could you PLEASE!!!!! KEEP IT DOWN about the Indian wars my little Indian will get all bent out of shape about those things she had to quit running the mountains and change outfits and overcome,adapt,prevail in other ways NOT ALLWAYS in the TRUE ways of her Native American ancestry BUT I ALWAYS KIND OF LIKED IT

 

[HHhuntitall]

I gotta tell you I have shot out two barrels in the 6. 5x284 one was a Krieger and the other was a Brux. Those two barrels were tack drivers both of them. With the Krieger I shot my first clean at 1,000 yds a 200-11x. The Brux was also a very accurate barrel. The Krieger lasted 848 Rounds exactly ( I keep a log of every shot fired in each barrel) the Brux went 912 rounds. In both cases accuracy was falling off pretty bad when I had them scoped the fire cracking and erosion was very bad. Roland

Gunny,

I don't know much about the Brux, but I've had much better service from my Krieger barrels..... Odd. Of course, every one is different. As of the last two years, I've had the best luck with Broughton barrels... . I've only had one that wasn't just fantastic. Every darn one has been a match grade barrel... . Of course, the Krieger's have been pretty good, too. I've used them on AR platforms for some friends, and shooting DOD ammo, they're pretty good. Those guys have taken them to some rough places and come back alive and happy with the upper performance, so I guess they're pretty good.....

HH

Could you PLEASE!!!!! KEEP IT DOWN about the Indian wars my little Indian will get all bent out of shape about those things she had to quit running the mountains and change outfits and overcome,adapt,prevail in other ways NOT ALLWAYS in the TRUE ways of her Native American ancestry BUT I ALWAYS KIND OF LIKED IT

I ain't touchin' that one... ... ... . (mine is a Scottish Alexander... . she'll cut yer heart out with a spoon... ... and smile the more you scream... ... Well, she might just shoot you in the lowers and let you lay there and think about it for awhile..... )

 

[Gunny]

Gunny

I know exactly what you mean I hate having to go to the shooting range all those folks that dont know what its like to have DISIPLINE on the range with a FOOT being DROVE!!!!! up your KIESTER if you do one thing that the range-master doesn't care for. This is the reason I HAVE MY OWN RANGE out my backdoor ( not at the moment its covered with about 4ft of snow) I have a shooting bench. For now im forced to use the deck off our house using the deck railing as a rest. One other problem with my shooting range is that sometimes I have to call it off because some of the local young folks play at the end of the range at the 600 yard marker HERE I WILL SHOW YOU THEM even thou I HAVE TO STOP shooting watching the young folks play is OK!!!!!!! I still have to watch for the range-master the one at this range wears the pants in the family and cooks the food when she says TIME OUT I LISTEN I many have been in the Air Force BUT IM NOT STUPID!!!!!!!

Nasty, I hope you know how lucky you are to have a place like that. I could watch those "young folks" all day as well, and a Range Master is just a fact of life, especially when she cooks the food.

HH
Could you PLEASE!!!!! KEEP IT DOWN about the Indian wars my little Indian will get all bent out of shape about those things she had to quit running the mountains and change outfits and overcome,adapt,prevail in other ways NOT ALLWAYS in the TRUE ways of her Native American ancestry BUT I ALWAYS KIND OF LIKED IT

Nasty, For the life of me I can only think of one appropriate answer after looking at that picture--- DAMN!!! God bless her Mommy and Daddy...

Roland

 

[BIGNASTY]

Mine prefers a KNIFE makes the work just a bit easier, Knowing her she would fry up the SAID OYSTERS and eat them with a giggle while doing it!!!!:-laf

 

[BIGNASTY]

Nasty, I hope you know how lucky you are to have a place like that. I could watch those "young folks" all day as well, and a Range Master is just a fact of life, especially when she cooks the food.



Nasty, For the life of me I can only think of one appropriate answer after looking at that picture--- DAMN!!! God bless her Mommy and Daddy...

Roland

I have no doubt that im blessed in the place I live, I wake up roll over and am equally in wonder of WHY ME!!!!

 

[Gunny]

Mr. Black,

I sir must apologize for complettly Hijacking your thread, this rascal seems to have taken on a life of its own. Now with that said I have been giving your orginal question some thought. For me that can be a dangerous thing ( thinking that is). If you orginal goal was to get out and just shoot, Target's and Benchrest only with no hunting. Then there is actually a very good way for you to go, end up with all brand new equipment, and break not the bank in doing so.

Savage today is building an exceptional rifle, heads and shoulders above Remington if you are comparing them today. The Savage Target Action rifles are very accurate right out of the box, many of them are winning matches each and every weekend in some discipline's. They are not for an example going to shoot along side the Point Blank guys shooting there little one hole groups, but for Long Range Benchrest, Mid Range Benchrest and F-Class they are doing well.

The Savage also has another very big advantage for a guy like yourself who just wants to shoot. The Savage action is somewhat unique in the manner that the barrels are attached. They are attached with a Barrel Nut, thus making them pretty easy to be swapped out by the average guy with no Gunsmithing training. Becuase the barrel is attached with this barrel nut, headspacing also becomes something you can do yourself right when you install the barrel.

This allows the Savage shooter the ability to purchase "Pre-Fit" and "Pre-Chambered" barrels, and do the swap yourself. There are also several Custom barrel companys doing the Pre-Fits for the Savage. One of these is Pac-Nor barrels a very good and accurate custom built barrel, another is Criterion Barrels. Criterion barrels are actually Krieger Barrel Companys pre-fit barrel division housed in the same building as Krieger. Krieger is one of the leading custom barrels in the world.

The real big advantage of this is COST. As an example when I purchase a Krieger barrel in my match profile of 1. 250 Straight I order a balnk that is 33" long so that the finished barrel will be 31" long. This barrel cost me $345 plus shipping. The barrel then goes to my Smith to be cut and chambered this is an additional cost of $250 plus shipping back to me. In the end I have in a new barrel right at $650 dollars or so.

In the Savage you would only have to purchase a Pre-Fit and Pre-Chambered barrel these run right around $350 to $385 and I have even seen new ones advertised for $265 a time or two. Install it your self and you are ready to go.

The one thing you will have to be mindful of is the size of the Bolt Face. If you were to order one of these rifles in lets say . 308 or 6mmbr they both use the same size bolt as does your target cartridge os the 6. 5x47 Lapua. However Savage does use a Floating Bolt Head and these are very easy to change they sell from Savage for $35, in this way you could use almost any size cartridge in that one rifle, as long as it would fit into the length of the action.

The rifle I personally would recommend to you is the Savage F/Class. F/Class is the Model number of this rifle and here is a link http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/ This paticular rifle comes with a very good Long Range Benchrest or F/Class open stock, legal in either discipline. It also comes chambered in 6mmbr as well as 6. 5x284. Get the 6mmbr and you will have the correct bolt for any of the cartridges in the 308 family. Then buy a Pre-Fit in 6. 5x47L and you are good to go at any range you want to shoot from a 100 yds to a true 1,000 yards. I have seen these rifles selling for $950 to $1125 .

Roland

I noticed when I opened that link that it did not go straight to the F/Class model. So if you open that window then on the left there is a list of Savage's models, click on the Target models and then click on F/Class. That will get you there. Don't pay any attention to there MSRP price, I called a local Gun Shop here and the owner told me He will order one have it in three or four days from Savage and sell it for $1,049. I am sure you can get a deal close or better than that were you live.