Guns, Bows, Shooting Sports, and Hunting Building a Bolt Action

[HHhuntitall]

Gharm, I've seen the Heavy Varminter, and like the way the barrel looked, with 26", nice crown, and contoured just right... . but I've never got to shoot one... . I hear they're good rifle, and the barrels are button rifled, so they really should be better than a Remington or FN... . I don't like the bolt assembly. Never have liked Marlin bolt actions... . but you know as much about lock up and correct headspacing as I do... . or more!!! :-laf Being the rifling is button cut, if they use a half way decent reamer, they should shoot fairly well..... Any idea of who makes the barrels for them? Shaw and Broughton make the performance barrels for Savage!! That was a shocker!!

 

[GHarman]

Shaw and Broughton make the performance barrels for Savage!! That was a shocker!!

WOW! HHhuntitall!
That is a far cry from all those broached "drill pipe" barrels that Savage used to use! I reckon they realized, to get an accurate rifle, that did not get fouled shut in 10 rounds ya had to have a decent barrel!
A wise decision!
If I was to buy a budget factory F/TR class rifle it would be a Savage!
Howa rifles are supposedly pretty good also!
GregH

 

[HHhuntitall]

WOW! HHhuntitall!

That is a far cry from all those broached "drill pipe" barrels that Savage used to use! I reckon they realized, to get an accurate rifle, that did not get fouled shut in 10 rounds ya had to have a decent barrel!

A wise decision!

If I was to buy a budget factory F/TR class rifle it would be a Savage!

Howa rifles are supposedly pretty good also!

GregH

I know, right?!?! Tim North(North Machine, Broughton Barrels) laid that one on me last year... . he said he'd been selling barrels to a major rifle manufacturer for their upper line rifles... I was thinking McMillan or something similar... . then he said,"Long Range Precision Varminter and FTR rifles... . " Really? He said he couldn't tell me the actually name of the manufacturer, per their contract... . but I asked him if they all had AccuTriggers and barrel nuts, and I could "hear" him smile... . Nice. I knew E. R. Shaw had been providing them quite a few barrels, too... .



Howa? Do the new ones have metric barrel threads? I had two older ones in SS, and I had to cut the damn barrel shank to get them to unthread!!! They had some kind of loc-tite on the dang threads!!! I twisted my dang action wrench!! Ticked me off... . I heated one, and still wouldn't budge!! Man, what a PITA... . I like the way they feel, but didn't like the way they shot from the factory... . They were older, from around 2000 year models, IIRC... . Are newer ones made the same?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I have done load development and glass bedding on some factory rifles such as Remington 7600 and Win 70 featherweight and come up with nice loads; if doing my part I could get 2. 5-3" groups at 400 yd. That is with a bench and support for the fore end, but not full benchrest. I also got good results with a Mauser action, Douglas barrel, Brown Precision stock in . 338. Some factory barrels shoot well. Shaw barrels are OK; Melvin Forbes uses them in the Forbes Rifles that are mass produced, but he uses Douglas for his NULA custom guns. Load development helps a lot!

 

[GHarman]

HH,
Those Stainless Steel actions (or SS Barrel) are really tricky(I'm sure you know this!). You get a barrel threaded into one with no lube or improper lube on the threads and it will gall tight!
A BR gunsmith told me he had to machine the threads out of a Stainless Steel BR receiver to replace the barrel. The last "pipefitter" did not use a lube on the threads and they galled.
Effectively destroying the threads in the receiver!
I dont know if the Howa is a metric thread? Then or presently. A friend had a Howa in 7MM Remington Magnum and it was a SHOOTER! Reading I have done suggests that there are a high percentage of good shooters in the Howa BA line.
I would still opt for the Savage target rifle, given the choice.
Mr. Donnelly,
Mausers are a PITA, IMHO. When they were plentiful many moons ago, there were alot of custom rifles built on the '98's.
Reheat treatment was a necessity as well as straightening out the twisted mess when it was returned from the heat treater!
Grinding off the clip slot and welding on a new bolt handle was alot of work for a used receiver. Some went even as far as fitting a plate into the thumb slot and welding it up.
Course that was where real gunsmithing skills came into play. If the customer had the money to pay for the rework!
For the money invested, a Pre-64 M-70 was a far better deal, in 1970!

 

[HHhuntitall]

I have done load development and glass bedding on some factory rifles such as Remington 7600 and Win 70 featherweight and come up with nice loads; if doing my part I could get 2. 5-3" groups at 400 yd. That is with a bench and support for the fore end, but not full benchrest. I also got good results with a Mauser action, Douglas barrel, Brown Precision stock in . 338. Some factory barrels shoot well. Shaw barrels are OK; Melvin Forbes uses them in the Forbes Rifles that are mass produced, but he uses Douglas for his NULA custom guns. Load development helps a lot!

Mr. Donnelly, I know there are MANY factory built Remington and Winchester rifles that do shoot well. I have many, myself. My disgust comes from the many I've had that didn't shoot well, or were, by most standards, not even safe to shoot. Just a recent list would be a Remington Sendero I had that the chamber was cut crooked in. Shoot a round, rotate the cartridge 180*, and the bolt wouldn't even close on it's own round... . Or a Remington 700 . 308 Heavy varminter... the chamber was so tight, only around 10 rounds out of every box would even close. The Clymer Go guage I had wouldn't even close on it!! That's wayyy too tight. Both were sent to Remington and found to be "in spec. " Sorry to seem so negative on factory rifles, but that really "tweaks my melons!!"



Winchester's made during the '90s seem to be even worse!! I had one the bolt handle was loose on. Recoil would make the handle work it's way back into the stock and was extremely hard to open. Another guy had a SS Short action in . 270 WSM he'd bought and it wouldn't shoot 2 MOA at 100yds, and the headspace was a little excessive. It went back to Winchester, and they sent him a LONG ACTION 270 WINCHESTER!! REALLY!!! The guy buys a . 270WSM, but they send him back a . 270 Winchester??!?!!? WTH? Personally, I thought it was an upgrade, but the guy had a bunch of ammo, dies, and powder already bought for it..... Then, that replacement rifle was full of metal shavings!!?!? WTH... again??!? There was literally metal down the bore 15"!! Jeesh, Louise!! Another 7mmRemMag had enough headspace to seperate brass every shot. A 300Wssm had a diaganol barrel tip. Seems quality control was AWOL and it shipped out without being crowned... ... . I know, I know, there's gonna be a certain percentage that slip through the cracks... . my problem is how big is the crack??!??!



I will say I have a number of older, 60s and 70s made rifles that shoot outstanding. The Pre-64s are my favorite, by a long shot... . Not near as easy to come by these days... . But given the option, I'd opt for an older made Remington over anything new they produce... .

HH,

Those Stainless Steel actions (or SS Barrel) are really tricky(I'm sure you know this!). You get a barrel threaded into one with no lube or improper lube on the threads and it will gall tight!

A BR gunsmith told me he had to machine the threads out of a Stainless Steel BR receiver to replace the barrel. The last "pipefitter" did not use a lube on the threads and they galled.

Effectively destroying the threads in the receiver!

I dont know if the Howa is a metric thread? Then or presently. A friend had a Howa in 7MM Remington Magnum and it was a SHOOTER! Reading I have done suggests that there are a high percentage of good shooters in the Howa BA line.

I would still opt for the Savage target rifle, given the choice.

Mr. Donnelly,

Mausers are a PITA, IMHO. When they were plentiful many moons ago, there were alot of custom rifles built on the '98's.

Reheat treatment was a necessity as well as straightening out the twisted mess when it was returned from the heat treater!

Grinding off the clip slot and welding on a new bolt handle was alot of work for a used receiver. Some went even as far as fitting a plate into the thumb slot and welding it up.

Course that was where real gunsmithing skills came into play. If the customer had the money to pay for the rework!

For the money invested, a Pre-64 M-70 was a far better deal, in 1970!

GHarm, I've seen some that were overtorqued severly, with no lube, and they galled pretty bad. But these Howa's threads were good. Perhaps they were overtorqued, but that gummy crap on the threads I think was supposed to be anti-sieze that siezed up. I can't say. I've never had much trouble with any of mine. I've got a switch barrel BAT action with a . 308 and . 284 barrel..... check that, I HAD a . 308 barrel... . Dad took a likin' to it... . :{ But I've unthreaded them many times, and never had any problems... I use a little anti-seize or grease and all's good.



Ahhh, Mauser's. What better way to ruin a perfectly good Saturday? Spend all day welding, grinding, chucking, cutting, bluing, polishing, only to chamber it and find the action is soft on the third test round. :-laf Guess I should have checked that, huh?!? One of the first lessons I learned, years ago... . Guess that's why I started on a Mauser... . IT REALLY makes you appreciate a good Remington or Winchester action... The Interarms Mark X's have been good to me... . Later models, pretty sloppy Zastava morkmanship, but they're a controlled feed action... . The Montana is a nice action, but the Surgeon gets my current vote. Hard to beat those... . hard to pay for, too... .

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I used a Mark X Mauser action; they came already sporterized. I know some commercial guns are better than others. I have a new Bauska BBK-02 magnum sporter Mauser type action if someone wants to start there.

 

[HHhuntitall]

I used a Mark X Mauser action; they came already sporterized. I know some commercial guns are better than others. I have a new Bauska BBK-02 magnum sporter Mauser type action if someone wants to start there.

I've seen some rifle that have used those actions... . I've always wondered what the box length was... . Are they any bigger than the Remington's?

 

[JLeake]

I have seen lots of factory barrels that were in reality not much use. For example a Ruger #1 in 6mm Remington that had three tight spots in it and hundreds of rounds testing from a bench I never got better than a 1. 5" group, regardless of powder, primer, bullet (did not try other cases). An upset 22cal bullet dropped three times testing for a bulge. Rebarreled to 257 Roberts with a Shilen match grade barrel it was a tack driver forming brass. I am still kicking my butt for selling it many years ago.

I had a Ruger varmit 22-250 would group 0. 375" at 100yds with a hot (not unsafe but right on the edge) load. It was a barrel of monkeys on ground squirrels and rock chucks.

An no name (at least not a major brand name) 98 mauser in 30-06 shot ok, but not great. Same with a bolt Ruger in 6mm.

My Ruger 7mm Magnum bolt gun would shoot 3 shots out of a cold wet barrel in 0. 625", BUT it had a chamber that was "HUGE" - a 5 times fire formed case when laid on a straight edge the belt was about 0. 0. 60" off the edge. It would hold a huge powder charge of H870 powder. A gunsmith friend came to the range the day we chronographed it at 3148 fps with a 154 grain bullet. He asked if he could shoot it, I said sure. He shot one shot, and came out of the little shooting shack like a salmon going upstream past the rapids, cussing and screaming at me "what is in that thing, you tried to kill me. " I explained what was in it as he opened the bolt and examined the case, and then said "it is not even high pressure". That thing was miserable off the bench, it kicked like a belgian mule.

My next bolt gun will be a Savage model 12 or a precision target action just less than $600 - but that one is a single shot.

 

[CBlack]

Alrighty then... .....

Decided for the first build...

Ordering a Surgeon short action to start for a 6. 5x47 Lapua.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Alrighty then... .....



Decided for the first build...



Ordering a Surgeon short action to start for a 6. 5x47 Lapua.

OH yeah! You'll like that... . That action has a built in cam on the rear of the bolt so when the bolt closes to tighten up the bolt and keep it from moving, a "Sako" style extractor, and side catching bolt stop/release. I've ended up using several of them, and just love them. I recently built a 338 Lapua, using their XL action, and they forgot the trigger hanger. Sent me another one priority mail, no questions. That's service!! I shoot with the owner at Tulsa Red Castle gun club, and he's always really nice, approachable, and willing to offer advice or help trouble shoot. He's really busy these days, but that's good for business... .



I looked at the 6. 5x47 cartridge, and it looks like a really effecient little cartridge... . I've got an idea to try to build an AR-10 upper with it, but I think OAL may be a problem in the end, using 140 Bergers..... I think you'll like it, though. What barrel are you thinking, now?

 

[HHhuntitall]

Alrighty then... .....



Decided for the first build...



Ordering a Surgeon short action to start for a 6. 5x47 Lapua.

OH yeah! You'll like that... . That action has a built in cam on the rear of the bolt so when the bolt closes to tighten up the bolt and keep it from moving, a "Sako" style extractor, and side catching bolt stop/release. I've ended up using several of them, and just love them. I recently built a 338 Lapua, using their XL action, and they forgot the trigger hanger. Sent me another one priority mail, no questions. That's service!! I shoot with the owner at Tulsa Red Castle gun club, and he's always really nice, approachable, and willing to offer advice or help trouble shoot. He's really busy these days, but that's good for business... .



I looked at the 6. 5x47 cartridge, and it looks like a really effecient little cartridge... . I've got an idea to try to build an AR-10 upper with it, but I think OAL may be a problem in the end, using 140 Bergers..... I think you'll like it, though. What barrel are you thinking, now?

 

[CBlack]

Barrel... Not sure yet. The Surgeon will be 6 months or so before it's ready, so I've got a little time.

My BIL was in Oklahoma last week and is buddies with a gunsmith/shop owner in the northern part of the state. They had a 6x47 that they let him shoot and he fell in love with it. Called me to tell me about it then keeps talking.

I figure 6. 5 will work better so I can keep the cartridge "OEM" and not neck it down... which my BIL is planning to do.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Well, I'm a big fan of the 6. 5s. I've got several 6. 5x284s, and I can push a 142 Sierra or 140 Berger up over 3100 fps with a 26" barrel... . Accuracy loads are a bit slower, but still pretty fast and flat. Great for hunting or target shooting. The 6. 5x47 is a good cartridge, but you're not going to see that kind of velocity... probably closer to 2700-2800 with a fast barrel and a long throated reamer..... You've probably looked that up. I think Preston's daughter or his ex-FIL is shooting one. No recoil, but still a heavy enough bullet to buck the wind and make the shot. Lots of bullet choices for target or hunting, and you can load the lighter 120gr range bullets and it won't destroy the throat from velocity... . Just a good all around cartridge, IMO... .

 

[The patriot]

Youre gonna like the 6. 5.

 

[CBlack]

Question...

Ordered the action today (like the way Surgeon does business too). What about bottom metal and trigger? Jewell trigger? Assembly? Other?

Settled on McMillan stock (I think).

 

[CBlack]

Question...



Ordered the action today (like the way Surgeon does business too). What about bottom metal and trigger? Jewell trigger? Assembly? Other?



Settled on McMillan stock (I think).

 

[HHhuntitall]

Personally, I'd go with a Jewell trigger. They seem to be the best I've found for light, SAFE, trigger pulls. I usually go around 8ozs on match rifles, 1. 5lbs on hunting rifles... . I have used the Timney and played with the new Kelbly's. For the money, the Timney would be my next option behind the Jewell. If you get real serious, and need one, I'm a dealer for them, too... ... For bottom metal, it depends, did you order the single shot or repeater? If single shot, try the Remington Aluminum trigger guards... . Simple, clean... . http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...trigger-guards/index.htm?avs|Make_3=Remington



If a repeater, then probably Remington lower units... . http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...prod340.aspx?avs|Make~~Model_1=Remington__700



If you REALLY like magazines, then I'd say something like the Surgeon lower or Badger Ordnance... . Those are my preferences, there are a LOT of options out there. Remington parts fit, so that's another beauty of the Surgeon... ... McMillan stocks are good, but they don't do business like Surgeon, so be aware... I'm a dealer, for them, too, and I want to pull THIER hair out sometimes... .



If you go to the Brownells website, as you probably have, you'll find all kinds of neat stuff for the Remington actions... . you also might look at www.midwayusa.com, among others.

 

[CBlack]

Personally, I'd go with a Jewell trigger. They seem to be the best I've found for light, SAFE, trigger pulls. I usually go around 8ozs on match rifles, 1. 5lbs on hunting rifles... . I have used the Timney and played with the new Kelbly's. For the money, the Timney would be my next option behind the Jewell. If you get real serious, and need one, I'm a dealer for them, too... ... For bottom metal, it depends, did you order the single shot or repeater? If single shot, try the Remington Aluminum trigger guards... . Simple, clean... . http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...trigger-guards/index.htm?avs|Make_3=Remington

If a repeater, then probably Remington lower units... . http://www.brownells.com/rifle-part...prod340.aspx?avs|Make~~Model_1=Remington__700

If you REALLY like magazines, then I'd say something like the Surgeon lower or Badger Ordnance... . Those are my preferences, there are a LOT of options out there. Remington parts fit, so that's another beauty of the Surgeon... ... McMillan stocks are good, but they don't do business like Surgeon, so be aware... I'm a dealer, for them, too, and I want to pull THIER hair out sometimes... .

If you go to the Brownells website, as you probably have, you'll find all kinds of neat stuff for the Remington actions... . you also might look at www.midwayusa.com, among others.

You're a dealer for Jewell or Timney?

I ordered a repeater.

What is your take on AI stocks? I like them as well... pricey though!

 

[BDW]

Most rifles can be turned into a tack driver, some will just cost more than others. IMHO your best bang for your buck will be the Rem 700 or savage 111 rifle and have it blue printed by a gunsmith. Your looking at 1500 -2000 for the rifle. Optics will be where most of your is spent. However I did see an article of an individual who built a Savage based rifle for 1000.